I had no concerns with Burrow. It was his first NFL game, including preseason.
I'm far more concerned with the OL.

I don't believe in curses... but I gotta say, sometimes you do have to wonder.

We march down the field in a two-minute drill with no timeouts. Incredible effort led by a rookie QB. But of course AJ gets called on a ticky-tack OPI. And as soon as they trotted Bullock out for a field goal, I said to my dad, "He'll miss." And not only did Bullock miss, he blew out his leg in doing so! Even when we fans think we can call this shit, the universe still finds a way to twist the knife.

Who else does this sort of shit happen to? The Browns, maybe? Our kicker hurts himself doing the one thing he's paid to do. What a profoundly stupid way to lose a game.

(09-16-2020, 01:50 PM)Big Boss Wrote: Who else does this sort of shit happen to?  The Browns, maybe?  What a profoundly stupid way to lose a game.

Lions, HB dropped a wide-open game-winner then they doinked the FG. This is all after blowing like a 20 point lead to Mitch Trubisky and the Bears.

(09-16-2020, 01:59 PM)Au165 Wrote: Lions, HB dropped a wide-open game-winner then they doinked the FG. This is all after blowing like a 20 point lead to Mitch Trubisky and the Bears.

Wow.  That is worse.

Touche.

(09-16-2020, 01:50 PM)Big Boss Wrote: I don't believe in curses... but I gotta say, sometimes you do have to wonder.

We march down the field in a two-minute drill with no timeouts.  Incredible effort led by a rookie QB.  But of course AJ gets called on a ticky-tack OPI.  And as soon as they trotted Bullock out for a field goal, I said to my dad, "He'll miss."  And not only did Bullock miss, he blew out his leg in doing so.  Even when we fans think we can call this shit, the universe still finds a way to twist the knife.

Who else does this sort of shit happen to?  The Browns, maybe?  What a profoundly stupid way to lose a game.

I don't believe in curses either, but the last two games of the 2006 season really had me shaking my head.  Win either game and we make the playoffs.  We lose both when two incredible last minute drives end with a botched XP and a missed chip shot FG by one of the most accurate kickers in the league.

Those two games were brutal back-to-back gut punches.

And lets not even mention the 2015 playoff loss.

(09-16-2020, 01:59 PM)Au165 Wrote: Lions, HB dropped a wide-open game-winner then they doinked the FG. This is all after blowing like a 20 point lead to Mitch Trubisky and the Bears.

I watched that live. Dropped the win.

They said during the game that the Lions were ahead in the 4th quarter in 10 games last year and lost them all. Yikes.

(09-16-2020, 01:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If Burfict doesn't get called for a personal foul we're most likely starting our 5th season with AJ McCarron as our starting QB.

I hate this universe.

(09-16-2020, 01:59 PM)Au165 Wrote: Lions, HB dropped a wide-open game-winner then they doinked the FG. This is all after blowing like a 20 point lead to Mitch Trubisky and the Bears.

Similar to our ending, except for the 20 point lead part. Man oh man, that would make it so much worse.

(09-16-2020, 01:59 PM)Au165 Wrote: Lions, HB dropped a wide-open game-winner then they doinked the FG. This is all after blowing like a 20 point lead to Mitch Trubisky and the Bears.

Those were the first two games I watched this season.  Last play of the game and Lions gonna Lions then Bengals gonna Bengal.  Tomorrow we play the Browns, a team that has stunk for decades regardless of how talented or untalented their roster is. Oh and all 3 teams have 1st overall pick QBs that can often be seen contemplating their place on this earth.

I'm all for being positive, and usually I am on this board (relative to some others).

But I remember after the Seattle game last year we were all like "sure we lost but there are so many positives from the game, we'll be solid this year."

And look what happened. All I'm saying is that I'm going to reserve any judgement until this Friday morning (sleep it off and cool down either way) at the earliest.

(09-16-2020, 11:56 AM)Au165 Wrote: The play calling was fine. I keep hearing people say "playcalling was bad" and honestly, I'd love to hear from people who think this what exactly they are talking about. I thought they tried some stuff early Joe was comfortable with, specifically 5 wide, that they learned was tough to do with Bosa on the field. They went back to it later in the game when he was off the field, and when he was on he was tired, and they found success with it. The attached TE/ and bunch sets they were running out of seemed solid. I think Uzomah is a liability in run blocking and would like to see more Sample, but at the same time in the 3rd they went to some really nice play actions out of those same sets that worked well because of the setup.

I think sometimes people look to the result and blame the play, with various options in a play the QB's choice has a lot of impact on what people think is a good or bad play call. Joe for instance looked right on most all his throws, partially because that is where Bosa and pressure came from most the day. Had Joe been able to work back to some backside concepts we may have thoguht the play calling was magical. Throwing hot for the entire first half definetly makes it a bit tough to say the play calling, or design was bad.

I just don't see the issues, at a football level like I saw last year. They haven't been able to install anything close to their full offense yet with no real off-season. Even when the full offense is installed in a few weeks you only ever enter a game with 50 plays or less for that week in most cases and it's usually based of the looks you expect to see, with no pre-season it had to be hard to even guess what to install for this week. 

Couldn't disagree more.  They came out throwing the ball instead of focusing on what should have helped play to the offensive line's strength (oxymoron if there ever was one):  running the ball.  Putting the team behind the chains time and time again with sacks, penalties, etc.  Absolutely horrible script to open the game (and season).  

If ZT wants to come out throwing the ball and thinks he is Andy Reid, he needs to put Burrow on misdirections and bootlegs.  He did none of that.  Sitting duck.  

Horrible scheme.  Pathetic design.  Absolutely stupid.  100 yards of offense TOTAL in the first half, and 2 of that was an AUDIBLE QB scramble that Burow ran for a TD.  I guess if I want to be optimistic I could say that there is no where to go but up from that pathetic display.  

(09-16-2020, 03:17 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Couldn't disagree more.  They came out throwing the ball instead of focusing on what should have helped play to the offensive line's strength (oxymoron if there ever was one):  running the ball.  Putting the team behind the chains time and time again with sacks, penalties, etc.  Absolutely horrible script to open the game (and season).  

If ZT wants to come out throwing the ball and thinks he is Andy Reid, he needs to put Burrow on misdirections and bootlegs.  He did none of that.  Sitting duck.  

Horrible scheme.  Pathetic design.  Absolutely stupid.  100 yards of offense TOTAL in the first half, and 2 of that was an AUDIBLE QB scramble that Burow ran for a TD.  I guess if I want to be optimistic I could say that there is no where to go but up from that pathetic display.  

So they should run into 8-9 man fronts? Do you even know what you're looking at on TV? You try to take advantage of situations. Mixon had few holes the entire game and that's even when the D did not stack the box.

(09-16-2020, 03:17 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Couldn't disagree more.  They came out throwing the ball instead of focusing on what should have helped play to the offensive line's strength (oxymoron if there ever was one):  running the ball.  Putting the team behind the chains time and time again with sacks, penalties, etc.  Absolutely horrible script to open the game (and season).  

If ZT wants to come out throwing the ball and thinks he is Andy Reid, he needs to put Burrow on misdirections and bootlegs.  He did none of that.  Sitting duck.  

Horrible scheme.  Pathetic design.  Absolutely stupid.  100 yards of offense TOTAL in the first half, and 2 of that was an AUDIBLE QB scramble that Burow ran for a TD.  I guess if I want to be optimistic I could say that there is no where to go but up from that pathetic display.  

This whole response feels like a judgement on the outcome rather than any sort of football discussion around the actual scheme. In reality, most people here don't actually know what a "scheme" is. Your one note about there being "None" in terms of bootlegs and misdirections is actually false so the one real "schematic" complaint isn't even a real complaint. 

Being mad about playcalling is an exercise in "hindsight is 20/20". A little over 2/3rd of teams last year chose to throw the ball on 1st down 60% of the time or more. The idea you need to run on early downs is an archaic view of football that is a preference not necessarily "good scheme". Most teams have replaced those early down rushes with short passing as an extension of the run game. We did that but even those plays were being blown up by rush, however, that said in the 1st half our YPC rushing was 3.0 so it essentially wasn't cutting it either. Before you complain about the "running scheme" it was the same pin and pull blocking with heavy pitch emphasis that saved Mixon's season last year. Box count is the #1 check for most plays. If a run play is called and Joe checks because of box count does that make the scheme bad?

In the end, when fans complain about the scheme they really complain about execution. If he passed on 1st down every time and completed 60% and was lighting it up people would love the "scheme". If he ran on 1st and 2nd down at 2.5 YPC they call the scheme conservative and sophomoric. As the season goes, and the actual scheme doesn't change, you will see better execution and people will complain when we look bad and rave about it when we look good.

(09-16-2020, 03:17 PM)SHRacerX Wrote:   Putting the team behind the chains time and time again with sacks, penalties, etc.  Absolutely horrible script to open the game (and season).  

That was pretty dumb of Zac to call for penalties and sacks.

How could a head coach be that stupid?

I'm in the camp that we just need to execute. As Fred pointed out, one little penalty made the difference. But looking back, the Mixon fumble was huge and he isnt a fumbler. A couple overthrown balls to WR's who Burrow hasnt had much time to throw with. Etc and so on. We played a sloppy game but showed a lot of promise.

What gives me hope is that we were still in the game even though the OL especially Hart struggled. We had a chance to win it, a lame flag called it back, and then Randy shanked the tying FG. I'm not worried. We have a rookie QB, no preseason, hardly any offseason practice, and a lot of other new faces on the team. We will be fine. Just enjoy watching the team grow is my thing.

(09-16-2020, 11:35 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Lets face it. If Green is not called for PI then no one here gives a shit about how Burrow looked the rest of the game.  We would be clearing a spot for a statue in front of PBS.  

There would have been no better way for him to begin his career than a come-from-behind game-winning drive in the final minute of a game.

It is amazing the difference one simple call can make.

Hopefully this opening day heartbreak will fade from our memory like the opening day loss to Denver in '09.  That '09 team was coming off a 4 win season and losing like that on opening day seemed to be a sign the season was doomed from the start.  But we turned it around and made the playoffs.

As much as it hurt to lose a game like that on Sunday we still have reasons to be positive about the season.

Agree with you here Fred.

That BS call on Bates was the one I was mad about though. Everyone, even Steratore agreed that was a clean hit.

But I expected this stuff in the first game without any Preseason. Was a good game, that is a tough D-line man.

I already consider that game a win.

It wasn't just one penalty...therewas a messed up route, a ba thow a stupid turnover a fumbled rush, a couple of poor decisions.....but with all that they still almost won and aside from a fluke missed kick we would have won in OT. the team turned a corner with that 2 minute drive....you could see it. The offence suddenly clicked.

Big Joe was fire on that game(almost) winning drive and the team felt it.you could see the way they played....it felt like they were gonna win.

the penalty call was BS in my honest opinion. did he push off a bit, was it "legal"? No. Was it really worth a call? I still don't think so.


either way I feel like Jo was able to get his butterflies and nerves and "goshI'm in the NFL" feelings out of the way, and then just enforce his will all over the field at the end. I said it as they were systematically moving the chains down the field that "win or lose this drive is way Burrow and the bengals will look like and it's amazing!"

This was in many ways a preseason game and everyone including Burro looked a little rusty, and Burrow was nervous I think. with the quality pass rush it was hard for hm to get his rhythm. then in the 4th e seemed to find it.

Now the team are a little pissed and ready to kick ass!

(09-16-2020, 04:06 PM)Au165 Wrote: This whole response feels like a judgement on the outcome rather than any sort of football discussion around the actual scheme. In reality, most people here don't actually know what a "scheme" is. Your one note about there being "None" in terms of bootlegs and misdirections is actually false so the one real "schematic" complaint isn't even a real complaint. 

Being mad about playcalling is an exercise in "hindsight is 20/20". A little over 2/3rd of teams last year chose to throw the ball on 1st down 60% of the time or more. The idea you need to run on early downs is an archaic view of football that is a preference not necessarily "good scheme". Most teams have replaced those early down rushes with short passing as an extension of the run game. We did that but even those plays were being blown up by rush, however, that said in the 1st half our YPC rushing was 3.0 so it essentially wasn't cutting it either. Before you complain about the "running scheme" it was the same pin and pull blocking with heavy pitch emphasis that saved Mixon's season last year. Box count is the #1 check for most plays. If a run play is called and Joe checks because of box count does that make the scheme bad?

In the end, when fans complain about the scheme they really complain about execution. If he passed on 1st down every time and completed 60% and was lighting it up people would love the "scheme". If he ran on 1st and 2nd down at 2.5 YPC they call the scheme conservative and sophomoric. As the season goes, and the actual scheme doesn't change, you will see better execution and people will complain when we look bad and rave about it when we look good.

Easy way to try and dismiss the complaint:  You don't know what you're talking about.  The lack of handing the ball off on first down repeatedly put them behind the chains.  That put the offensive line in even worse position with certain passing downs facing that pass rush.  And in the first half, I didn't see them move Burrow in the pocket at all.  I don't want to re-watch the first half as it would make me want to vomit, but it goes way beyond execution.  The Bengals executed poorly in the second half.  They missed wide open receivers.  I am not talking about those plays.  I am talking about horrible play selection in the first half that put their QB and their offensive line in terrible positions.  

I don't have a source, but the "Locked on Bengals" podcast quoted an organization that rates the first 15 plays as those are typically scripted plays.  They ranked the Bengals dead last, of course.  

(09-16-2020, 04:26 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That was pretty dumb of Zac to call for penalties and sacks.

How could a head coach be that stupid?

Yeah, you're right Fred...sacks occur so often when you are running the ball.  

I just want to see the Bengals come out on.their 1st drive and set tempo and just demoralize a Browns
Defense missing 4-starters. Im tired of seeing ZTs offenses start out 3-and out every single
Time on.their 1st possession. Take the dress off Zac.