(09-18-2020, 01:02 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: AJ was wide open for 2 TD's last night?  When exactly?

I don't remember Burrow missing any obvious throws.  Did he miss them because he got buried into the dirt?

I can think of no less than 25 receivers that I'd take as my #1 over AJ Green right now.  And I can proabably stretch that out to over 30 if I really wanted to.  (I'll list them if you'd like)

AJ can't even stay on the field.  They took him out on a 3rd and 13 last night.  He wasn't out there for a lot of plays.

If you actually watch him and can't tell he's not the same then you're not watching the same guy.  He's slow as shit.

watch the 2nd quarter where AJ split double coverage  40 yards out that Burrow sailed out of the end zone.

(09-18-2020, 12:51 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: those 2 fumbles by Burrow were game changing plays. Burrow being a rookie was reason we lost just like a multitude of others. those 2 fumbles cost us 10 points in a 5 point game. not to mention if we could have ever got a lead may have caused Browns to panic like they did with Ravens previous week and abandon run.

Are you giving Burrow the "credit" for the snap that went flying past him?

(09-18-2020, 01:08 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: I know he only lost 1 we were driving into field goal range before fumble. how did the 20 yard loss affect that drive? Burrow hasn't been great yet.
 It's just ridiculous that you cant see any faults in QB play. It's criminal to throw 60 + times and not have 1 completion over 25 plus yards. That makes him a game manager Alex Smith type captain checkdown. Yes the line was bad on at least 15 of those throws he had a clean pocket. AJ looks like old AJ Burrow has missed 3 throws that would have made AJ's day better both games. His deep ball hasn't been very accurate if it continues Defenses will pick up on that and take away all of the short throws. Browns were daring him to throw deep when it was a 1 posession game.

And with the bold you have just completely lost all credibility. Good day, sir.

(09-18-2020, 11:53 AM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: OL D+ wasnt for Hopkins and Jonah this grade would be a F
DL D- terrible performance all around from this unit
LB C held up in coverage ok run support was lacking
Coaching F Taylor had team unprepared and no adjustments for what Browns were doing

As a completely objective outsider who only comes here to gauge fan reaction to his fantasy players I think these grades aren't accurate at all.  There are only three position groups on your team you need to worry about right now.

OL - F
DL - C+
LB - F

Your OL is absolute garbage.  The left side was average at best, and the right side was basically two blocking dummies in pass rush drill at practice.  To make matters worse, your dumbass coach kept running the ball in behind the right side of your line.  Joe Mixon was literally making something out of freaking nothing.   Any time he went five yards I wasn't wondering why he didn't get more, I was wondering how the hell he got 5 yards at all.   His biggest run of the night was also on the right side, and low and behold, its because your RT or RG decided the only way he could be effective was to hold the guy in front of him.  So it got called back.  Then you have your coach calling roll-outs to that same right side and Joe Burrow getting absolutely MURDERDED. 

Your DL is actually pretty good.  Inside your two DT's were doing just fine clogging up blockers.  They did their jobs just not consistently.

Your LB's on the other hand don't know how to 1. Flow to the open gap and 2. Tackle.  Almost every big gain out of that running game came when one of your free running LB's with nobody on him got juked in a 3ft gap, over pursued the runner, or flat couldn't rap up the runner.  They are absolutely pathetic.

COACH - F

Zac Taylor's play calling is god freaking awful.  The aforementioned running of Joe Mixon to the same side of the line was one example, he was actually much better running left on those sweeps.  The second being the middle of the field was WIDE FREAKING OPEN all night.  Yet this genius wants to run Out patterns all night.  The TE's were running free up the middle, and Joe Mixon was free to do whatever he wanted.  His longest catch of the night came when he absolutely abused that linebacker in space in the middle of the field. He also had Mixon 1 on 1 in the flat all evening. But does he stick with it to force the Safeties to start playing the middle of the field honestly?  Hell no.  Play action was non-existent.  

Mixon is getting hung out to dry by this coach.  Your offense was at its best when Mixon was running routes and forcing the defense to stop crowding the line of scrimmage.  Yet he goes away from it??  At the beginning of the game I was thinking here we go.  Gio Bernard on passing downs, Mixon on running downs.....dudes showing his hand based on personnel.  Then all of a sudden he mixes Mixon into the passing attack and I am thinking, finally this guy is starting to get it and Cleveland doesn't have an answer.  Then 3rd quarter hits, and this dumbass goes back to  being predictable using Mixon as a nothing more than an overpriced battering ram to the right side of that shitty line, a passing decoy for the underneath TE routes and pass protector.  Good Job Zac!

If me, the average NFL fan can see the tendency, I am pretty sure the coaches on the other side that get paid to figure this shit out see it too.

Not using Ross's speed to run off a safety on one side is another topic I could address, but damn Zac Taylor sucks. And let's all remember, Joe Mixon was the leading receiver most of the night, yet he was getting swapped out for Gio Bernard who was basically running a 4 yard comeback and getting tackled every play. What is the point of that? Don't you want your best players on the field?

(09-18-2020, 01:12 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Are you giving Burrow the "credit" for the snap that went flying past him?

I'm not blaming Hopkins for that. Burrow had to know Hopkins was about to snap it so he should have been more aware. official should have granted TO you can't depend on that so Burrow should have been more ready.

(09-18-2020, 12:15 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: He's had 18 games. Their has yet to be 1 game where I thought man we have a smart head coach that has the team well prepared. Dalton would be starting this season had Taylor had any monikem of player relation skills. Dalton should be starting and Burrow should be learning by watching. After Taylor threw Dalton under the bus and benched him on his birthday only way we were keeping Dalton is if we paid him 20 million. we were probably offering more money for him to stay here for 1 more year he took less money to get the hell out of here.

That's because he is not a good head coach, he was a QB coach he worked a season with Sean McVay no experience to be head coach, but as always no real talented big name coach will come to this team as long as Mike Brown is around.

LOU ANARUMO- F-

(09-18-2020, 01:20 PM)cincyfan429 Wrote: That's because he is not a good head coach, he was a QB coach he worked a season with Sean McVay no experience to be head coach, but as always no real talented big name coach will come to this team as long as Mike Brown is around.

If I’m a coach I’m absolutely interested in coming here because of Burrow. Not all coaches have a QB of that quality in place when they take a job.

(09-18-2020, 01:17 PM)capitalist_pig Wrote: As a completely objective outsider who only comes here to gauge fan reaction to his fantasy players I think these grades aren't accurate at all.  There are only three position groups on your team you need to worry about right now.

OL - F
DL - C+
LB - F

Your OL is absolute garbage.  The left side was average at best, and the right side was basically two blocking dummies in pass rush drill at practice.  To make matters worse, your dumbass coach kept running the ball in behind the right side of your line.  Joe Mixon was literally making something out of freaking nothing.   Any time he went five yards I wasn't wondering why he didn't get more, I was wondering how the hell he got 5 yards at all.   His biggest run of the night was also on the right side, and low and behold, its because your RT or RG decided the only way he could be effective was to hold the guy in front of him.  So it got called back.  Then you have your coach calling roll-outs to that same right side and Joe Burrow getting absolutely MURDERDED. 

Your DL is actually pretty good.  Inside your two DT's were doing just fine clogging up blockers.  They did their jobs just not consistently.

Your LB's on the other hand don't know how to 1. Flow to the open gap and 2. Tackle.  Almost every big gain out of that running game came when one of your free running LB's with nobody on him got juked in a 3ft gap, over pursued the runner, or flat couldn't rap up the runner.  They are absolutely pathetic.

COACH - F

Zac Taylor's play calling is god freaking awful.  The aforementioned running of Joe Mixon to the same side of the line was one example, he was actually much better running left on those sweeps.  The second being the middle of the field was WIDE FREAKING OPEN all night.  Yet this genius wants to run Out patterns all night.  The TE's were running free up the middle, and Joe Mixon was free to do whatever he wanted.  His longest catch of the night came when he absolutely abused that linebacker in space in the middle of the field. He also had Mixon 1 on 1 in the flat all evening. But does he stick with it to force the Safeties to start playing the middle of the field honestly?  Hell no.  Play action was non-existent.  

Mixon is getting hung out to dry by this coach.  Your offense was at its best when Mixon was running routes and forcing the defense to stop crowding the line of scrimmage.  Yet he goes away from it??  At the beginning of the game I was thinking here we go.  Gio Bernard on passing downs, Mixon on running downs.....dudes showing his hand based on personnel.  Then all of a sudden he mixes Mixon into the passing attack and I am thinking, finally this guy is starting to get it and Cleveland doesn't have an answer.  Then 3rd quarter hits, and this dumbass goes back to  being predictable using Mixon as a nothing more than an overpriced battering ram to the right side of that shitty line, a passing decoy for the underneath TE routes and pass protector.  Good Job Zac!

If me, the average NFL fan can see the tendency, I am pretty sure the coaches on the other side that get paid to figure this shit out see it too.

Not using Ross's speed to run off a safety on one side is another topic I could address, but damn Zac Taylor sucks.

Welcome aboard.

C+ seems really generous for the DL.

(09-18-2020, 12:41 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: He also overthrew AJ twice on 2 TD passes. Burrow is good and has higher ceiling than Dalton. Dalton is better now.  Dalton was a borderline probowler with AJ Green in the lineup

Just stop. Do you have red hair? Related to Dalton?

Burrow >>>>>>> Dalton. 

We scored 30 points in a game with no running game and terrible offensive line play where we dropped a sure TD pass, we failed to score a TD on 1st & goal from the 1-inch line (and first and goal from the 3), and our starting TE tore his achilles halfway through.

We did not have a 30 point game until week 16 last year.

Was it perfect? Hell, no. Poor playcalling (running wide/delays/shotgun at goal line drives me crazy) was a factor. Not having a FB/big back is a factor. So is the crappy OL, Johnson & Hart in particular (they cost us 7 pts on the strip sack). Boyd dropped a TD. 

Burrow made some mistakes. The TO/snap snafu. Held the ball too long and got sacked once. But 30 pts under those conditions is remarkable. No picks. Had 3 must TD drives to keep us in the game plus a nice drive before half for a FG. 5/5 on 4th down. All this with no preseason games.

Look, I get the doom & gloom. The D is still mostly a mess vs a competent offensive team. Geno healthy will help some, but we have zero pass rush, terrible LBs, and Bates & WJ3 are still poor tacklers. The right side of the OL is a disaster & Jonah is not reminding me of Anthony Munoz or Whit or Big Willie. Turner & Lou may have to go and I have next to no faith in ZT.

But we have our QB. End of debate. He's legit. Lordy, how good would he look with time to throw and a running game? Priority #1, #2, and #3 should be OL. Keep Joe upright. We can outscore people while we figure out the D. 

Yes, some guys look bad (Fred J), the LBs. But Jordan was hella bad early last year, and is much better now. SOME of these guys will improve. 

The hardest thing to find in the NFL is the franchise QB, and we have that. 

(09-18-2020, 01:27 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Just stop. Do you have red hair? Related to Dalton?

Burrow >>>>>>> Dalton. 

We scored 30 points in a game with no running game and terrible offensive line play where we dropped a sure TD pass, we failed to score a TD on 1st & goal from the 1-inch line (and first and goal from the 3), and our starting TE tore his achilles halfway through.

We did not have a 30 point game until week 16 last year.

Was it perfect? Hell, no. Poor playcalling (running wide/delays/shotgun at goal line drives me crazy) was a factor. Not having a FB/big back is a factor. So is the crappy OL, Johnson & Hart in particular (they cost us 7 pts on the strip sack). Boyd dropped a TD. 

Burrow made some mistakes. The TO/snap snafu. Held the ball too long and got sacked once. But 30 pts under those conditions is remarkable. No picks. Had 3 must TD drives to keep us in the game plus a nice drive before half for a FG. 5/5 on 4th down. All this with no preseason games.

Look, I get the doom & gloom. The D is still mostly a mess vs a competent offensive team. Geno healthy will help some, but we have zero pass rush, terrible LBs, and Bates & WJ3 are still poor tacklers. The right side of the OL is a disaster & Jonah is not reminding me of Anthony Munoz or Whit or Big Willie. Turner & Lou may have to go and I have next to no faith in ZT.

But we have our QB. End of debate. He's legit. Lordy, how good would he look with time to throw and a running game? Priority #1, #2, and #3 should be OL. Keep Joe upright. We can outscore people while we figure out the D. 

Yes, some guys look bad (Fred J), the LBs. But Jordan was hella bad early last year, and is much better now. SOME of these guys will improve. 

The hardest thing to find in the NFL is the franchise QB, and we have that. 

Fantastic post. Rep

(09-18-2020, 01:23 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: If I’m a coach I’m absolutely interested in coming here because of Burrow. Not all coaches have a QB of that quality in place when they take a job.

But you would agree to work under Mike Brown

(09-18-2020, 01:30 PM)cincyfan429 Wrote: But you would agree to work under Mike Brown

Without getting too disrespectful, Mike Brown is 85 years old. I don’t think he’ll be heavily involved with the team much longer.

on throws of 20 plus this season 1 of 12 with 1 TD. That is horrible and could use improvement from Burrow. Those aren't stats of a good QB. And AJ being thrown under the bus for this stat is ridiculous.

(09-18-2020, 01:26 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: C+ seems really generous for the DL.

Chris Covington played well and so did DJ reader, they were chewing up space.  They clogged up the middle on the goal line super effectively.  Your outside pass rush wasn't bad either. They got Baker off his spot enough.  Not to the extent of Cleveland, but there was nothing there that really said they are God freaking awful.  Bottom line, if your LB's could tackle nobody would have ever noticed the DL.

(09-18-2020, 12:50 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I saw a bunch of guys playing with urgency.

Problem is lack of execution. Whether that's through talent, coaching, rust, whatever, it's gotta get fixed.

I have concerns with the available talent.  The right side of the o-line needs replaced and the lack of available DTs is a major concern.  I also worry that Carlos may be starting to decline.  

That said, I agree with what you're saying execution-wise.

We're all excited for new players and offseason approach, but 20 practices and zero preseason games aren't going to get a roster like this into top form for real games.  

If they still suck and look this lost in mid-October, then I'll be really worried.  

(09-18-2020, 01:36 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: on throws of 20 plus this season 1 of 12 with 1 TD. That is horrible and could use improvement from Burrow. Those aren't stats of a good QB. And AJ being thrown under the bus for this stat is ridiculous.

You act like guys are running wide open left and right. Overall his WR’s have been pretty bad through 2 games. He’s missed a couple deep ones he should have hit, but that’s about it. At least he’s not forcing the ball into tight coverage and turning it over.

(09-18-2020, 01:17 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: I'm not blaming Hopkins for that. Burrow had to know Hopkins was about to snap it so he should have been more aware. official should have granted TO you can't depend on that so Burrow should have been more ready.

And here I thought that the Center wasn't supposed to snap the ball until the QB called for it. Silly me.

That's two games in a row our qb didn't have a ball batted at the Los.