No way we are picking #1.... I can see picks 3 - 5 however.

Outside chance we are again #1 pick I'd take a lesser haul to move to #3 to draft Sewell. There is no way you pass up a position of need and the greatness that people expect out of that man.

(09-19-2020, 07:10 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Same flaws we had last year... and trading the pick was unacceptable...

We built the team backwards... but he it is the Bengals way.

Not at all.  The Cowboys dynasty was built in a similar fashion to what we're talking about.  They drafted Aikman, then traded Walker to build around him.  Or, look at the Colts with Peyton.  It took a few years to build them up into a SB contender.  There's no guarantee that if you trade down you'll be able to get your QB the following year.  

If you don't have a QB and you're sold on the top guy, you take the QB.  If you have your QB already and you're up there, you trade down to build around him if you can.

(09-19-2020, 06:44 PM)Whatever Wrote: He had one bad game as a rookie.  If you don't play great every game or at least have somebody the fans hate worse than you that they can blame for your failures in some convoluted way, you're a bum.  For example, if they moved Hart to LG, he'd never get blamed for anything because it would be all Hart"s fault.

Personally, we've got the QB.  If we're in a position where somebody wants to come up for Trevor or Fields, you take the boatload of picks.  The cap is going down next year, so having quality players on rookie deals is that much more valuable.

No one is “hating” on Jonah (ffs people overreact to anything) Sewell might just be better suited to be a LT than him. Kicking Jonah over to RT would not be that big of a deal. In fact it would rid us of Bobby Hart, and possibly give us our bookends for the next decade +

(09-19-2020, 07:45 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: No one is “hating” on Jonah (ffs people overreact to anything) Sewell might just be better suited to be a LT than him. Kicking Jonah over to RT would not be that big of a deal. In fact it would rid us of Bobby Hart, and possibly give us our bookends for the next decade +

Jonah also played RT in college before moving over to LT, so he is familiar with the position.

(09-19-2020, 07:10 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Same flaws we had last year... and trading the pick was unacceptable...

We built the team backwards... but he it is the Bengals way.

You would have never advocated for trading the pick if your boy came out last year instead of this year...

(09-19-2020, 07:46 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You would have never advocated for trading the pick if your boy came out last year instead of this year...

Honestly, as much as I'd like to see a guy I like from a team I cheer for come here, I'd rather see him go someplace and have a successful career.

I look at the Chiefs way of doing things as the right way of doing things.

They built a team and needed a QB, and when they had the team ready, the traded up and got their guy.

Mahomes didn't suffer behind a bad line with limited weapons and a suspect defense or questionable coaching...

That is how you build the team. Here, we took a shiny new toy that we aren't ready to support in anyway and hope he'll fix things. It doesn't work like that.

Also, with all the Covid stuff that we all knew about during the draft, it was double dumb to draft a rookie QB and not have a vet around so the kid didn't have to get killed.

(09-19-2020, 07:39 PM)Whatever Wrote: Not at all.  The Cowboys dynasty was built in a similar fashion to what we're talking about.  They drafted Aikman, then traded Walker to build around him.  Or, look at the Colts with Peyton.  It took a few years to build them up into a SB contender.  There's no guarantee that if you trade down you'll be able to get your QB the following year.  

If you don't have a QB and you're sold on the top guy, you take the QB.  If you have your QB already and you're up there, you trade down to build around him if you can.

Cowboys and Aikman was how many decades ago? The game has changed alot since then.

Peyton, that is a better example and how long did it take that team to get a championship? 

As I said to Nico, I am sold on the Chiefs model of building a team. Build a line, build a defense, get good coaching in place, get some weapons and then you sell your draft away to move up and get your guy. 

Who cares if you give up pick 32 the following year? I'd give up the last pick of the first round the next year if you got the franchise QB when he had a chance to succeed.

1st round pick o lineman
2nd round pick o lineman
3rd round pick o lineman
4th round pick o lineman
5th round pick defensive end
6th round pick defensive end
7th round pick defensive end

(09-19-2020, 06:44 PM)Whatever Wrote: He had one bad game as a rookie.  If you don't play great every game or at least have somebody the fans hate worse than you that they can blame for your failures in some convoluted way, you're a bum.  For example, if they moved Hart to LG, he'd never get blamed for anything because it would be all Hart"s fault.

Personally, we've got the QB.  If we're in a position where somebody wants to come up for Trevor or Fields, you take the boatload of picks.  The cap is going down next year, so having quality players on rookie deals is that much more valuable.

I'm on board with Penei Sewell if no one wants to give up 3 top 40 picks....but if they do I'd be ecstatic with a draft that looked like Gregory Rousseau, Jayson Oweh, and Jackson Carman.

(09-19-2020, 08:00 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Honestly, as much as I'd like to see a guy I like from a team I cheer for come here, I'd rather see him go someplace and have a successful career.

I look at the Chiefs way of doing things as the right way of doing things.

They built a team and needed a QB, and when they had the team ready, the traded up and got their guy.

Mahomes didn't suffer behind a bad line with limited weapons and a suspect defense or questionable coaching...

That is how you build the team. Here, we took a shiny new toy that we aren't ready to support in anyway and hope he'll fix things. It doesn't work like that.

Also, with all the Covid stuff that we all knew about during the draft, it was double dumb to draft a rookie QB and not have a vet around so the kid didn't have to get killed.

There's a huge difference in how the Chiefs drafted Mahomes. He wasn't the number 1 overall pick. He came into a situation where the team was making the playoffs or hovering around them. Alex Smith was actually ballin' during Mahomes rookie year. It would've been the equivalent of getting Burrow at number 10 in 2013.

I was sayin' this last year. Number 1 overall QBs have a harder road ahead of them than the guys taken in later rounds or later in the first. They're walking into a shit situation... All of them. It wasn't dumb to take him though. We'd already broken our last QB, and had to take him. Kansas City never fell to those lows, so yeah... It looks like they did it the right way. But other teams have tried to do that, and it didn't work.

And Lord have mercy... Burrow is 2 games into his career, and the man is as advertised. The doom and gloom about him that some have is sorta silly.

(09-19-2020, 09:45 PM)jason Wrote: There's a huge difference in how the Chiefs drafted Mahomes. He wasn't the number 1 overall pick. He came into a situation where the team was making the playoffs or hovering around them. Alex Smith was actually ballin' during Mahomes rookie year. It would've been the equivalent of getting Burrow at number 10 in 2013.

I was sayin' this last year. Number 1 overall QBs have a harder road ahead of them than the guys taken in later rounds or later in the first. They're walking into a shit situation... All of them. It wasn't dumb to take him though. We'd already broken our last QB, and had to take him. Kansas City never fell to those lows, so yeah... It looks like they did it the right way. But other teams have tried to do that, and it didn't work.

And Lord have mercy... Burrow is 2 games into his career, and the man is as advertised. The doom and gloom about him that some have is sorta silly.

If you don't want to use the Chiefs model, look at the Rams then, they were garbage, and made all kinds of moves to improve then traded up to get Goff. So far, it has worked well for them and he hasn't taken the abuse.

This isn't about Burrow not being good. I said it pre-draft and I'll say it here again. This is about this franchise and how bad it is run. They draft Burrow and so many fans took that as "all is well now." If you need proof of that, see this board and the predictions for 8 wins or 9 wins this year before the first game. This team, has to rebuild from the ground up as bad as we are, you can't have the face of your franchise spend the next 2 or 3 seasons getting frustrated with loses and hit almost every time he drops back. The right course of action for this team would have been to trade Dunlap, trade Geno, trade A.J., trade the first pick and go about stockpiling the team with young players. You do this till you have the talent and the draft capital and then you get your franchise guy. 

But hey, everyone is happy we have Burrow. He is the answer. Yet we are still 0-2 and one player isn't going to be the difference.

(09-19-2020, 10:37 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: If you don't want to use the Chiefs model, look at the Rams then, they were garbage, and made all kinds of moves to improve then traded up to get Goff. So far, it has worked well for them and he hasn't taken the abuse.

This isn't about Burrow not being good. I said it pre-draft and I'll say it here again. This is about this franchise and how bad it is run. They draft Burrow and so many fans took that as "all is well now." If you need proof of that, see this board and the predictions for 8 wins or 9 wins this year before the first game. This team, has to rebuild from the ground up as bad as we are, you can't have the face of your franchise spend the next 2 or 3 seasons getting frustrated with loses and hit almost every time he drops back. The right course of action for this team would have been to trade Dunlap, trade Geno, trade A.J., trade the first pick and go about stockpiling the team with young players. You do this till you have the talent and the draft capital and then you get your franchise guy. 

But hey, everyone is happy we have Burrow. He is the answer. Yet we are still 0-2 and one player isn't going to be the difference.

No I get it... Many thought LSU Burrow was gonna step right in. Just like many thought the last guy was what was holding us back.... And it's great that you went to the Rams example. That's an excellent case of a meh QB. Fisher got him first right? Then a guy came along who could actually coach, and they've had a little success. So in summation; these coaches gotta go. Except you Simmons... You can be interim HC after next week if it were up to me.

I don't think the Bengals are good at evaluating talent to be honest. Best case scenario for them is to sign a top-tier OT and OG in free-agency that still has lots of tread on them. Drafting someone is a complete crapshoot.

(09-19-2020, 08:03 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Cowboys and Aikman was how many decades ago? The game has changed alot since then.

Peyton, that is a better example and how long did it take that team to get a championship? 

As I said to Nico, I am sold on the Chiefs model of building a team. Build a line, build a defense, get good coaching in place, get some weapons and then you sell your draft away to move up and get your guy. 

Who cares if you give up pick 32 the following year? I'd give up the last pick of the first round the next year if you got the franchise QB when he had a chance to succeed.

It took the Colts 9 years to win the SB after drafting Peyton.  That included one coaching change, with Jim Mora being replaced by Dungy in '02.  Thing is, Andy Reid had KC 11-5 his first year and it took him 7 years to win the SB, so the "build team/insert QB" model is not dramatically faster.  

The other issue with the KC model is you can't always trade up.  Take this year, for example.  The Bengals were taking Burrow no matter what.  If you were sold on him, you weren't getting him, regardless of what you're willing to offer.  If someone else outbid KC for Mahomes, they are most likely not winning the SB and trying to keep their core together until they can get that elite QB.  Lots of teams try that strategy, never get the elite QB, and never win the SB.  That's why when you're sure you've got the guy, you have to pull the trigger.  

(09-19-2020, 07:33 PM)QueenCity Wrote: No way we are picking #1.... I can see picks 3 - 5 however.

Outside chance we are again #1 pick I'd take a lesser haul to move to #3 to draft Sewell. There is no way you pass up a position of need and the greatness that people expect out of that man.

How so? 

I don't see another team out there that is clearly worse then this team currently. I would have said Jacksonville but... they won. 

(09-20-2020, 03:43 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: How so? 

I don't see another team out there that is clearly worse then this team currently. I would have said Jacksonville but... they won. 

NYG are going to be really bad. Especially if Barkley is out for significant time (he just went down).

(09-20-2020, 03:45 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: NYG are going to be really bad. Especially if Barkley is out for significant time (he just went down).

It was a knee, and the way he left the field does not seem like it is minor.

There have been a ton of big injuries today.  Enough that I feel that the lack of preseason is a factor.  Guys didn't work their bodies into playing a full game.

(09-20-2020, 03:43 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: How so? 

I don't see another team out there that is clearly worse then this team currently. I would have said Jacksonville but... they won. 

Watched them a bit today so far, and saw a good bit of them last week.  They are a good team.

Broncos and Eagles both look like they will give us a run for the money, and I haven't seen anything to expect anything better from Miami or the Jets.  The 49ers are getting bit hard by the injury bug, so there is a chance of them being dismal as well.

(09-20-2020, 03:45 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: NYG are going to be really bad. Especially if Barkley is out for significant time (he just went down).

So we have a contender. If Barkley is done, that is going to be ugly. 

So, that means 1/2 Giants and Bengals... and both teams already invested in a QB...  so, does that decrease the value of the picks since teams no they can sit at 3?

(09-20-2020, 04:01 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: So we have a contender. If Barkley is done, that is going to be ugly. 

So, that means 1/2 Giants and Bengals... and both teams already invested in a QB...  so, does that decrease the value of the picks since teams no they can sit at 3?

The Giants and Jets are contenders also the Dolphins have been playing ugly football. I can see the Giants and Jets moving on from their young QBs for Trevor Lawrence if they get the #1OA.