Not what everybody else here is talking about, but I just read Hobson's interview with Taylor, and wow his comments about the OL are depressing. Basically he denies there's a problem. Joe "does a good job anticipating pressure," and so that leads to a lot of "pressures" that really aren't. What a bunch of crap. And I'd think he was just trying to defends his players, but then the next question he just says the defense is terrible and needs to get better. Why can't he admit that about the OL?

Smh

(09-23-2020, 01:18 AM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: Not what everybody else here is talking about, but I just read Hobson's interview with Taylor, and wow his comments about the OL are depressing. Basically he denies there's a problem. Joe "does a good job anticipating pressure," and so that leads to a lot of "pressures" that really aren't. What a bunch of crap. And I'd think he was just trying to defends his players, but then the next question he just says the defense is terrible and needs to get better. Why can't he admit that about the OL?

Smh

Maybe Jim Turner bullies him...

(09-23-2020, 12:01 AM)Joelist Wrote: I think what he is referring to is the interesting difference in the reactions of the anti-Andy gang to what we are seeing this season versus last season. Last season it was blame Andy and avoid in all possible ways noting the OL issues, scheme issues and inability of the receivers to get separation. This season they suddenly note these factors while holding Burrow blameless, assigning the mistakes to being a rookie.

Meanwhile the "pro-Andy" posters (which really did not exist per say) have noted these issues both this season AND the previous ones. They also are fine with Burrow and attribute the gaffes to being a rookie.

How about we all just agree that Burrow is doing okay but the persistent issues with the OL, scheme and play of some of the receivers are torpedoing the offense just like they have the past 3-4 years.

But him being a rookie definitely factors in. Andy was a veteran, this makes a difference right? Sure you don't want to fumble on your own 1 either way. You don't want to throw shuffle pass interceptions within the 15 lol. Burrow is a rookie, with all the same garbage parts around him.

(09-22-2020, 11:45 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You are talking out of your ass now. I'm not sure what you are referencing...but you must be thinking of someone else. 

first, you are the one who referenced Dalton and homie.. sarcasm back at you.. my point was.. I was comparing Dalton after two games with Burrow after two games since it seems many on here have come to the idea that Burrow is a franchise QB and that his performance over his first two games show that.. Well Dalton's performance over his  first two games with also a bad team was just as good and better in some areas than Burrow and though he was a solid QB .. he was not able to be the "Franchise QB" that leads us to wins in playoffs.. I have not seen enough in 2 games from Burrow to place him as that guy either which some seem to have on here.  

I actually have seen  similarities to the young Dalton , short passes, pretty accurate on those throws, spreading the field around and outside of one throw safe with the ball.  Burrow is for sure more mobile which should help more with a bad line though but man he got to improve on passing down the field or he will never reach the "Franchise" status. 

Interesting Both Dalton and Burrow played excellent 2nd games.. both scoring points in 4th quarter but falling short. Dalton did have a rough next two games so lets hope Burrow shows us more over that span...

(09-23-2020, 01:40 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: first, you are the one who referenced Dalton and homie.. sarcasm back at you.. my point was.. I was comparing Dalton after two games with Burrow after two games since it seems many on here have come to the idea that Burrow is a franchise QB and that his performance over his first two games show that.. Well Dalton's performance over his  first two games with also a bad team was just as good and better in some areas than Burrow and though he was a solid QB .. he was not able to be the "Franchise QB" that leads us to wins in playoffs.. I have not seen enough in 2 games from Burrow to place him as that guy either which some seem to have on here.  

I actually have seen  similarities to the young Dalton , short passes, pretty accurate on those throws, spreading the field around and outside of one throw safe with the ball.  Burrow is for sure more mobile which should help more with a bad line though but man he got to improve on passing down the field or he will never reach the "Franchise" status. 

Interesting Both Dalton and Burrow as excellent 2nd games.. but scoring points in 4th quarter but falling short. Dalton did have a rough next two games so lets hope Burrow shows us more over that span...

Joe Burrow was the consensus #1OA pick in the 2020 NFL draft, having just won the Heisman, Manning, Davey O'Brien, etc etc awards, a National Championship and set records for the single greatest statistical season in NCAA history. 

Andy Dalton was a 2nd round pick...and you're comparing the two? GTFOhere

Just admit that you've been sitting around frothing at the mouth for a chance to shoot Burrow down because poor Andy got picked on and shipped outta here when it was beyond apparent that he wasn't taking the team anywhere. 

(09-23-2020, 01:49 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Joe Burrow was the consensus #1OA pick in the 2020 NFL draft, having just won the Heisman, Manning, Davey O'Brien, etc etc awards, a National Championship and set records for the single greatest statistical season in NCAA history. 

Andy Dalton was a 2nd round pick...and you're comparing the two? GTFOhere

Just admit that you've been sitting around frothing at the mouth for a chance to shoot Burrow down because poor Andy got picked on and shipped outta here when it was beyond apparent that he wasn't taking the team anywhere. 

I don't think it's that; he's one of the VERY few that hasn't woken up yet to the fact that Burrow was NOT a 1 year wonder (he thinks Burrow fluked out last year).

(09-23-2020, 01:56 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I don't think it's that; he's one of the VERY few that hasn't woken up yet to the fact that Burrow was NOT a 1 year wonder (he thinks Burrow fluked out last year).

I don't throw that around lightly. There are those around here who will be quick to point out Burrow's shortcomings (and yes, he has them) and wonder why he doesn't get the same scrutiny that Dalton did "for doing the same thing". 

It's gonna linger for a while, but it's def out there. 

Please stop comparing Andy Dalton's first two games to Joe Burrow's. I shouldn't have to put out the obvious, but it's not at all apples to apples.

-Andy Dalton's first he was 10-15 for 81 yards and 1 TD. And he got 121 yards on the ground from Cedric Benson.

-Joe Burrow's first game he was 23-26 for 191 yards. He got 69 yards on the ground from Joe Mixon.

-Through 2 starts Andy Dalton had 56 attempts.

-Through 2 starts Joe Burrow had 97 attempts.

-Andy Dalton's team had the #9 best defense in 2011. (Where's your guess we end up this year?)

It's clear as day one QB was being asked to do much, much more for their respective team. It's clear as day Andy Dalton's line was better. (Whitworth, Livings, Cook, Bobbie Williams, Andre Smith) And it's clear as day they joined two entirely different teams.

A more accurate comparison for Dalton is last year. This year Burrow has a better Oline, better defense, a number 1 receiver all that Dalton didn't have last year. 2 games in Burrow is slightly worse than Dalton last season. Do I think Burrow will be better eventually? absolutely but he will never be a top 10 QB unless he can improve his deepball accuracy. YPA if its good it means your QB is pushing the ball downfield.

(09-23-2020, 03:50 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: A more accurate comparison for Dalton is last year. This year Burrow has a better Oline, better defense, a number 1 receiver all that Dalton didn't have last year. 2 games in Burrow is slightly worse than Dalton last season. Do I think Burrow will be better eventually? absolutely but he will never be a top 10 QB unless he can improve his deepball accuracy. YPA if its good it means your QB is pushing the ball downfield.

Look, I loved Andy and all, but comparing a nine year veteran to a rookie after two games is asinine.

(09-23-2020, 03:50 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: A more accurate comparison for Dalton is last year. This year Burrow has a better Oline, better defense, a number 1 receiver all that Dalton didn't have last year. 2 games in Burrow is slightly worse than Dalton last season. Do I think Burrow will be better eventually? absolutely but he will never be a top 10 QB unless he can improve his deepball accuracy. YPA if its good it means your QB is pushing the ball downfield.

Improving his deep ball accuracy is a foregone conclusion.

(09-23-2020, 03:58 PM)Earendil Wrote: Look, I loved Andy and all, but comparing a nine year veteran to a rookie after two games is asinine.

This.

You guys know how much I liked Dalton, but until last week against the Chargers Burrow had never taken a single snap against an NFL defense that was 100% trying to beat him up.

I got a little sick of the "Burrow will walk on water" talk that was going around here, but I want him to be great.  I am not going to start judging  him after just two games.

(09-23-2020, 04:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This.

You guys know how much I liked Dalton, but until last week against the Chargers Burrow had never taken a single nap against an NFL defense that was 100% trying to beat him up.

I got a little sick of the "Burrow will walk on water" talk that was going around here, but I want him to be great.  I am not going to start judging  him after just two games.

I want job to be paid for naps!

(09-23-2020, 01:49 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Joe Burrow was the consensus #1OA pick in the 2020 NFL draft, having just won the Heisman, Manning, Davey O'Brien, etc etc awards, a National Championship and set records for the single greatest statistical season in NCAA history. 

Andy Dalton was a 2nd round pick...and you're comparing the two? GTFOhere

Just admit that you've been sitting around frothing at the mouth for a chance to shoot Burrow down because poor Andy got picked on and shipped outta here when it was beyond apparent that he wasn't taking the team anywhere. 

Duh.. I am comparing the two because they were picked as our "franchise qbs" and you are correct Burrow should be held to a higher standard.. with this resume.. as you should also.... 

As for you actually knowing what I felt about Dalton being released, if you look back at my posts I understood the release.. that does not mean i was totally on board picking Burrow.. look back at my posts it was not about Dalton but about what we might be able to get with trading back knowing we had more issues than QB.. I did like Herbert and felt i would be open to a trade back if we could get him and more.  

(09-23-2020, 02:21 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Please stop comparing Andy Dalton's first two games to Joe Burrow's.  I shouldn't have to put out the obvious, but it's not at all apples to apples.

-Andy Dalton's first he was 10-15 for 81 yards and 1 TD. And he got 121 yards on the ground from Cedric Benson.

-Joe Burrow's first game he was 23-26 for 191 yards.  He got 69 yards on the ground from Joe Mixon.

-Through 2 starts Andy Dalton had 56 attempts.

-Through 2 starts Joe Burrow had 97 attempts.

-Andy Dalton's team had the #9 best defense in 2011. (Where's your guess we end up this year?)

It's clear as day one QB was being asked to do much, much more for their respective team.  It's clear as day Andy Dalton's line was better. (Whitworth, Livings, Cook, Bobbie Williams, Andre Smith)  And it's clear as day they joined two entirely different teams.

Please stop comparing players after the fact.. Smith had barely played.. Williams was 34 and out of football in a year.. played 1/2 the games.. Livings out in two year etc.. Whitworth was a stud... 

Dalton got hurt 1st game.. but still had a better passing rating.. 2nd game.. had over 300 yards and 3 tds.. blah blah blah...

funny how people want to compare Burrow in offseason to Palmer but if you bring Dalton up .. they go nuts.. go figure

(09-23-2020, 07:36 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Duh.. I am comparing the two because they were picked as our "franchise qbs" and you are correct Burrow should be held to a higher standard.. with this resume.. as you should also.... 

As for you actually knowing what I felt about Dalton being released, if you look back at my posts I understood the release.. that does not mean i was totally on board picking Burrow.. look back at my posts it was not about Dalton but about what we might be able to get with trading back knowing we had more issues than QB.. I did like Herbert and felt i would be open to a trade back if we could get him and more.  

Which, looking back, you have a great point. Miami had how many picks in the 1st round? Can you imagine the damage we could have done at improving this OL and more defense? Maybe they talked and Miami wasn't as sweet on the deal as we wanted? Hard to tell. However, I think I still would have stayed the course and picked Burrow. With the kids resume, how could you not? One thing Burrow has shown is that he doesn't need others to write his own history. Dude is doing excellent despite the support around him. OL = fail. Ross = fail. AJ = mediocre. Mixon = mediocre. Tate = unutilized. ZT = over coaching.

Over coaching, and why I use that term. Burrow audibled in the first TD against SD. He should be audibling much more often. I'm not sure he has been given that total freedom yet like an Aaron Rogers, Tom Brady, etc. Yet, I think he should be able to change any play at anytime he see's fit. He's a smart kid who knows the game. Then again, maybe he does have that option but he's not 100% confident in what he see's (NFL inexperience) so doesn't? IDK. 

Andy Dalton needed everything perfect around him to succeed. That isn't a sign of a franchise QB that my friends is a game manager.

Burrow has already shown he can succeed with the crap talent around him in 2 games. Build an O-line + defense and the wins will come

I recon Burrow deep ball will get better with more time available in the pocket and more reps with his WR. Color me not concerned. He showed it in at LSU perfectly fine... did you not watch the CBF Playoffs? His deep balls were fitting into pockets

If AJ doesn’t get called for OPI no one is questioning picking Burrow, whether he’s a franchise QB, etc.

Burrow seems to thrive the most when the pressure is on. If you win off late game heroics nobody is nitpicking the other stuff. Look at Mahomes in the Super Bowl last year. He played like shit for 3 quarters and then did just enough at the end to win the game (and MVP).

You either have that kind of clutch to your game or you don’t. Burrow looks like he has it. If he keeps playing like he has it will feel like the Bengals are never really out of any
given game. It’s been at least a few years since it felt like that.

(09-23-2020, 07:36 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Duh.. I am comparing the two because they were picked as our "franchise qbs" and you are correct Burrow should be held to a higher standard.. with this resume.. as you should also.... 

As for you actually knowing what I felt about Dalton being released, if you look back at my posts I understood the release.. that does not mean i was totally on board picking Burrow.. look back at my posts it was not about Dalton but about what we might be able to get with trading back knowing we had more issues than QB.. I did like Herbert and felt i would be open to a trade back if we could get him and more.  

Fair enough. I'm just saying that i got the distinct feeling that your posts implied that Burrow better come in and light it up right away, or he was going to be deemed "not as good/successful as Dalton". I doubt i was the only one. 

Regarding Dalton, he wasn't picked as the "franchise QB" in the same sense Burrow was. Dalton was one of the top 5 or 6 QBs that year that had a chance to come in and start from the jump. The Bengals were fortunate that he turned out the way he did, helping them to the playoffs all those years, compared to guys like Gabbert, Locker, Ponder, etc. 

Dalton's first year he had rookie AJ as a number 1 Jerome Simpson as a 2. Benson as a RB. Line was a little better G's were not great C was terrible. D was slightly better. Burrow has an offensive head coach. While Dalton had Marvin, All things considered Burrow might have it easier. Dalton also had shortened training camp as well. Saying that matters means you must think Herbert is better than Burrow.