(09-26-2020, 07:22 PM)jason Wrote: Yep Hue Jackson is a more accomplished NFL coach than Zac Taylor...

It will take Taylor 5 seasons at this rate to win as many games as Hue did as a HC...

(09-26-2020, 07:02 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: I was reading an interview with an Olineman a couple months ago, forget which one, might have been Jordan. He was talking about the change last year and he said the zone scheme was just too complicated to pull off with so many changing combinations of linemen.

Why would ZT and Turner insist on using a scheme that is too complicated to pull off anytime you lose a guy to injury? I’d think you’d want your scheme to be easy enough to be taught and executed.

Before anyone argues that would make it easier for our opponents to figure out, I’ll direct you back to last season’s late success in the running game.

The surest way to screw things up is to complicate things.

Do what works, that is all.

(09-26-2020, 07:04 PM)Synric Wrote: Pin and Pull is a zone scheme. 

Knew this.

(09-26-2020, 07:17 PM)Synric Wrote: Mid Zone off the Right Tackle. 

Well than stop doing it lol

(09-26-2020, 07:25 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: The surest way to screw things up is to complicate things.

Do what works, that is all.


Knew this.


Well than stop doing it lol

Offensive line needs to block better up front. Mixon is getting hit and hands on him behind or at the LoS.

(09-26-2020, 07:17 PM)Synric Wrote: Mid Zone off the Right Tackle. 

Thanks. Went to do some research on what a mid zone is and found this great video from Jim McNally.

https://youtu.be/zThTRYz5jXI

(09-26-2020, 07:29 PM)Synric Wrote: Offensive line needs to block better up front. Mixon is getting hit and hands on him behind or at the LoS.

True, but maybe they might block better if they primarily run the scheme they improved in last season.

We need to try the jet sweeps and pin and pull blocking scheme is what it sounds like. But from what I've seen so far, they wont do it until we lose 8 games. They are still holding out for Bobby Hart to emerge or something.

(09-26-2020, 10:02 PM)bengaloo Wrote: We need to try the jet sweeps and pin and pull blocking scheme is what it sounds like. But from what I've seen so far, they wont do it until we lose 8 games. They are still holding out for Bobby Hart to emerge or something.

Everyone knows you can’t judge a player by his first 67 games...

3. They don't put ROSS to return the ball even though he's probably the top 5 fastest WR in the NFL because 1. he's probably had many attempts in practice bounce of his chest trying to catch it or... 2. they know he'll fumble the ball on the first hit.

Erickson is reliable.

(09-26-2020, 07:40 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Thanks. Went to do some research on what a mid zone is and found this great video from Jim McNally.

https://youtu.be/zThTRYz5jXI

According to McNally, why would they run that play from a one back set?  The way he draws it up, it's a traditional I-formation power play.  

In that situation, it looks to me to be more of an opportunity to go backside, out of the single back set.

(09-26-2020, 11:00 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: According to McNally, why would they run that play from a one back set?  The way he draws it up, it's a traditional I-formation power play.  

In that situation, it looks to me to be more of an opportunity to go backside, out of the single back set.

I think what McNally is saying is he would never run it as a single back to the strong side and he doesn’t even like it with a FB because he wants that SLB moving sideways, but the FB gives you a chance against him. But, yeah McNally says he would only use mid zone if you’re running it to the weak side. I’m sure other coaches have their opinions and preferences, though.

(09-26-2020, 11:08 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: I think what McNally is saying is he would never run it as a single back to the strong side and he doesn’t even like it with a FB because he wants that SLB moving sideways, but the FB gives you a chance against him. But, yeah McNally says he would only use mid zone if you’re running it to the weak side. I’m sure other coaches have their opinions and preferences, though.

So, with Williams and Jordan being the backside blockers, I would start running to that side.  And, when they want to run Right, I would line the TE on the Left side and run to the Right.  If they're going to stick with the singe back set, they have to do what they can to find leverage.

The offense just needs to find their identity (like Cleveland did) and roll with it. Even as disappointing Zac has been as a play designer/caller, I'm more worried about the Defense at this point of team development.

Offense did just score 30. They were still stuck at trying to score more than 23 for much of last season. Burrow will make Zac look better than he really is.

If running isn't their thing, and it may not be going empty so much, then so be it. The run game will come, I don't think it'll take as long as it did last year.

(09-26-2020, 11:22 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So, with Williams and Jordan being the backside blockers, I would start running to that side.  And, when they want to run Right, I would line the TE on the Left side and run to the Right.  If they're going to stick with the singe back set, they have to do what they can to find leverage.

Agree and disagree. You can do that sometimes, but you also can’t become predictable. That’s where the jet sweeps, jet motions and RPO comes in. You can also do jumbo and have TE on both sides. According to McNally, then you’d want to run outside zone, though.

(09-26-2020, 07:24 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It will take Taylor 5 seasons at this rate to win as many games as Hue did as a HC...

Yeah... Not to mention Hue's runs as an OC, and various position coaches over the years. Hue Jackson had the Raiders in the hunt with Jason F'n Campbell under center. His career was destroyed by taking a job with an organization that was all out tanking. They legitimately traded away every talented piece they had while he was there, then when the cupboard was sorta filled, they canned him. I don't understand how people don't see that. He also should've Woody Hayesed Baker Mayfield when that prick stared him down a couple years ago.

(09-26-2020, 01:31 PM)740Bengal Wrote: 1. I would like to see more screens to help this horrid offensive line, Hart makes me miss Oguechi(sp?) and that's saying a lot.

2. Is Billy Price really that bad?

3. How about John Ross returning kicks, maybe then we can actually get some use out of him.

4. Where is Auden Tate?


IMO ZT is on the clock, if he doesn't show significant improvement, he should be out the door, maybe Zim gets fired im Minnesota and we bring him in, at this rate I'm almost convinced we'd been better off if we hired.....wait for it.. Hue Jackson.  This team should and needs to be 2-2 heading into Baltimore, and it's up to ZT to figure it out.

1. Not sure screens are going to be the answer, no one can block long enough for one to develop into anything. Hart is god awful but I don't think Cedric would be any better. At this point we should all be holding our breath for Burrow not to have his spine shattered by a Bobby Hart "look out!" block. 

2. Yes, he just doesn't have the physical attributes to be successful in the NFL and hasn't developed them like some thought he would. Was a really bad pick and Tobin should be held accountable but won't.

3. Mr Glass would get shattered on his first kick return (that is if he could actually catch the kick in the first place)

4. Taters is currently riding the pine at his house while his agent figures out another way to publicly derail a 7th Rd picks' career. Seriously, he should be starting over Ross but his reaction to the healthy scratch did not help his stock at all.

Hue is not a head coach, offensive coordinator sure, but he's had his shot at HC twice and failed miserably. Zac needs to show actions, he's great at words but his follow through has been non-existent. If they don't come out tomorrow with an actual game plan I'm really going to start questioning his ability to lead through proper strategy and planning. Culturally I think he's a fit but actions speak much louder than words, the team needs to start to show actual improvement, I'm not asking for a ton of wins but more tangible strategy pieces to show themselves, like game plans for one.

One does wonder why we persist in trying to run these passive zone blocking schemes instead of launching off the snap into the defense and driving. Every snap I see our linemen giving ground, which is not how to play effective offense, and I think part of the problem is the zone scheme which emphasizes lateral movement also puts the linemen in a reactive mode instead of attacking.

(09-26-2020, 11:23 PM)jj22 Wrote: The offense just needs to find their identity (like Cleveland did) and roll with it. Even as disappointing Zac has been as a play designer/caller, I'm more worried about the Defense at this point of team development.

Offense did just score 30. They were still stuck at trying to score more than 23 for much of last season. Burrow will make Zac look better than he really is.

If running isn't their thing, and it may not be going empty so much, then so be it. The run game will come, I don't think it'll take as long as it did last year.

I agree with this. In the first game I didn’t understand that the majority of our successes came from 5 wide with Burrow. Someone posted the numbers and that opened my eyes a bit. If it ain’t broke, use it more.

However, with Mixon getting paid, they need to get him more involved. The route he caught last week was a beauty, I want more of that. That was one of the best plays they have drawn up so far. Split him out wide. Use some pre snap motion to move him between RB and WR to find the mismatch. There is a ton of untapped potential it seems from the outside looking in.

(09-26-2020, 11:00 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: According to McNally, why would they run that play from a one back set?  The way he draws it up, it's a traditional I-formation power play.  

In that situation, it looks to me to be more of an opportunity to go backside, out of the single back set.

Mid Zone can be run from the shotgun.

The Bengals are running the Inside Zone and Middle Zone the most.







And of course from that they run the RPO Slant.




Inside and Middle zone are very common run plays that every team in the NFL use. Right now the Big problem is the Bengals line are missing key blocks up front or not keeping the defenders engaged and allow them to get hands and arms into gaps to slow the Running Backs. 

(09-26-2020, 01:31 PM)740Bengal Wrote: 1. I would like to see more screens to help this horrid offensive line, Hart makes me miss Oguechi(sp?) and that's saying a lot.

2. Is Billy Price really that bad?

3. How about John Ross returning kicks, maybe then we can actually get some use out of him.

4. Where is Auden Tate?


IMO ZT is on the clock, if he doesn't show significant improvement, he should be out the door, maybe Zim gets fired im Minnesota and we bring him in, at this rate I'm almost convinced we'd been better off if we hired.....wait for it.. Hue Jackson.  This team should and needs to be 2-2 heading into Baltimore, and it's up to ZT to figure it out.

Completely agree about the screen passes.  And use him in motion on end-arounds.  Even if you don't always hand the ball off, it slows down the defense.  Watch the Rams.  They are the kings of misdirection.  

As far as Hart gies, although a gaff that leads to a strip-sack looks really bad, it was Johnson and Jordan that were awful last week.  I have no idea about Price aside from some seemingly made up injury.  

Ross has a role, to take the top off the defense, but like play-action on a jet sweep if you never give the guy the ball it stops being useful.  I think the team gave up on him when he wasn't looking for the ball on that crossing route against the Browns.  He always seems to be on such a short leash.  AJ stunk up the joint and kept getting more and more targets.  I know AJ has earned a lot more equity than Ross, but it seems like they have completely discounted Ross in the offense.  It isn't like any other WRs are setting the world on fire.  

Loved Hue at one time, but he's not coming back nor do I want him any longer.