(09-28-2020, 04:45 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't think replacing Tobin in the middle of the season will have any impact on this season, but I definitely think there should be (strong) consideration for a replacement this coming offseason.

I don't know how the decision-making goes in terms of draft picks and FAs, but one has to think Tobin and Taylor have the biggest decision-making power. I also think though that Anarumo and Turner have had some say in the players they have acquired/kept.

I think this team suffers from thinking they can turn water into wine, at least at certain positions.
While Marvin was HC, it was the LBs. Rarely going after a LB in the 1st or 2nd round, but not having much success with those mid-to-late round guys.
Now, it's OL with Turner. This belief that the Bengals can groom a quality OL with a 4th round LG in Jordan, 6th round RT in Hart, UDFA RG with Johnson, and reclamation bargain-bin FA in XSF (prior to injury). I didn't include Price in this because he was a 1st rounder prior to the current regime and the team sticks with their 1st rounders through their rookie contracts regardless. But Price has been worse than everyone else who has played this year.

Obviously this is just my opinion, but the Bengals need someone making decisions with more logic, less trust. These coaches have not earned the trust that they can groom late-round picks and/or low-end starters/backups into good starters. As such, they need someone who takes the approach that if a starter is bad, they need to allocate a Day 1 or Day 2 draft pick or proven veteran FA to that position. Trade away the late-round picks to have more Rd 1-4 picks. Spend money on a couple upper-tier guys in FA.

It's not about this season. It's more about next season but mainly about 2022 and 2023 when we have a cost-controlled QB approaching his prime.

This isn't something you can fix overnight. It's unlikely rookies will get it right immediately which means we need to be drafting them in 2021 for the 2022 and 2023 Super Bowl runs. To draft them in 2021 we need to be scouting them now. 

To appoint the right coaching staff we need the person with the right vision in the front office. Is that Tobin?

If not, now is the time to move on. The window to exploit Burrow's rookie contract is closing.

The problems pre-date the current coaching staff, but even where the coaching staff are to blame, then you have to look at who appointed them. 

(09-28-2020, 05:21 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: It's not about this season. It's more about next season but mainly about 2022 and 2023 when we have a cost-controlled QB approaching his prime.

This isn't something you can fix overnight. It's unlikely rookies will get it right immediately which means we need to be drafting them in 2021 for the 2022 and 2023 Super Bowl runs. To draft them in 2021 we need to be scouting them now. 

To appoint the right coaching staff we need the person with the right vision in the front office. Is that Tobin?

If not, now is the time to move on. The window to exploit Burrow's rookie contract is closing.

The problems pre-date the current coaching staff, but even where the coaching staff are to blame, then you have to look at who appointed them. 

I get it's not about this season. So because of that, there should be no hesitation to change up the coaching staff. They are who they are at this point. The defense can't really get much worse, nor can the OL. You can bring in Alexander as a stopgap OL coach and someone like Wade Phillips to try to coach up the defense. Just like Marvin did after Austin was let go midseason, you won't be able to turn it completely around but you can shift from terrible to mediocre.

The way you phrased your OP was that there isn't benefit to changing the coaching staff midseason because it won't impact anything this season. But Tobin has 0 impact on the players on the field at this point in the season, unlike the coaches, so moving on from Tobin doesn't really accomplish anything. Besides, most of the "good" candidates to replace Tobin probably are going to be consumed with their current team, so why not wait until the offseason when there's a better crop to pick from?

I grab Dorsey now before the Giants or Lions grab him next year

TOBIN SHOULD BE ON THE HOT SEAT HE HAS HAD SOME TERRIBLE DRAFTS THE PAST 5 YEARS

He very much should be !

Taking a look at the 1st 3 rounds of 2014 - 18 drafts (it' to early to judge 19/20 drafts) And how many regularly contribute to the team.

2014:

Dennard B- C+ gone
Hill C one year wonder gone
Clarke Bust

2015:

Ogbuehi Bust
Fisher Bust
Kroft gone
Dawson Bust

2016:

*Jackson III B
*Boyd A
Vigil C gone

2017:

Ross D bust
*Mixon B+
Willis bust gone

2018:

Price Bust
*Bates B
*Hubbard B
Jefferson Bust gone

This makes Tobin 5 for 17 with three 1st round busts. For a team that relies so heavily on the draft you just can't do this bad in th top rounds !

He shouldn’t even have a seat anymore

I posted 2 years ago.Tobin.should be jettisoned.and his fan club was so quick to defend him. Where are they at now?

Tobin has swung and missed on more 1st rd picks than any.GM that has been tenured as long as him
And its also about who he passed up also in the draft.

Worse GM in the North by far

I feel like the LB position group was addressed in the draft. Wilson and ADG will be good players with more experience. As for the OL, it needed more attention in the off-season but I fully understand why they’re struggling. Jonah is playing in his first year. Jordan is a young 2nd year player. Injuries at RG and playing Fred Johnson out of position has led to big problems. RT should’ve been addressed in the off-season. We lack any depth. Billy Price has been a bust up until this point. I’m still holding out hope this line will build chemistry and experience this year and develop into serviceable unit. I like Zac Taylor and believe he is building something here. It’s just a year or two away.

Only if he farted after skyline...

2010 - Jermaine Gresham (Gone)
2011 - A. J. Green (Franchise star)
2012 - Dre Kirkpatrick (Gone) / Kevin Zeitler (Gone)
2013 - Tyler Eifert (Gone)
2014 - Darqueze Dennard (Gone)
2015 - Cedric Ogbuehi (Gone)
2016 - William Jackson III (Hit and miss)
2017 - John Ross (Bust)
2018 - Billy Price (Bust)
2019 - Jonah Williams (Jury is out)
2020 - Joe Burrow (Jury is out)

Neato.

(09-28-2020, 03:48 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: This team needs a GM. A real one.

Whether you fire this coach, that coach, or Duke Tobin, the problem is the person/people that is going to be doing the hiring is completely ill-equipped and not at all qualified to making hiring decisions.

While I do want a number of these people gone, I have no faith in the Front Office to bring anyone actually worthy of the position.

They need to bring a legitimate GM, who has years of real experience and success to run the whole show from the top down. Then allow this person to build out his entire staff, from the coaches, to the scouts, to the players.

Mike Brown, and Katie and Troy Blackburn, need to be completely removed from any football related decisions. Until that happens, I fear it really doesn't matter what they do with Duke Tobin and his skeleton screw of douche-nozzles they call a scouting department.

Wes, I agree with everything you just said.

I can't believe I'm sticking up for the Brown family (there's a first time for everything). Put yourself in their position. You are practically a billionare. You are trying to keep an entire extanded family afloat by owning a NFL team.

Are you really going to hire someone to do everything with this team and and turn your and every other family members back on the Family Business???

I know what we all want, but that's never going to happen...

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(09-30-2020, 07:22 PM)JSR18 Wrote: Wes, I agree with everything you just said.

I can't believe I'm sticking up for the Brown family (there's a first time for everything). Put yourself in their position. You are practically a billionare. You are trying to keep an entire extanded family afloat by owning a NFL team.

Are you really going to hire someone to do everything with this team and and turn your and every other family members back on the Family Business???

I know what we all want, but that's never going to happen...

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

It's truly sad that winning isn't at the top of the list of importances and the fact that it isn't is why the team is where it is.

They received some luck in drafting first overall when an excellent QB was also coming out. Sadly, without winning being at the top of priority list, they're not going to get the full advantage of the luck that came their way.

There's not wrong with extended family hanger-oners having to go get a job that fits their talent level. Wendy's is hiring I believe.