(10-07-2020, 03:33 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: Out of curiosity what were the grades for our linebackers last year?

Pratt - 51.0
Vigil 54.3
Brown - 45.9
Nickerson - 61.1 (limited snaps)
Evans - 61.5 (limited snaps)


Josh Bynes (Ravens) - 76.6

Honestly LB has been a problem for us far longer than OL. At least on the OL we had Whit, Zeitler, Boling, etc.

Other than Burfict our LB group has been brutal for as long as I can remember. We REALLY need one (or more) of Pratt, Wilson, ADG, Bailey to pan out.

(10-07-2020, 11:24 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Honestly LB has been a problem for us far longer than OL. At least on the OL we had Whit, Zeitler, Boling, etc.

Other than Burfict our LB group has been brutal for as long as I can remember. We REALLY need one (or more) of Pratt, Wilson, ADG, Bailey to pan out.

I think they ALL could pan out eventually. ADG I thought was the biggest project out of those 4, Pratt will get it down, Wilson is a 
solid tackler and has shown it at times this year, Bailey could be the best of the bunch if he can stay healthy IMO.

(10-07-2020, 11:33 AM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I think they ALL could pan out eventually. ADG I thought was the biggest project out of those 4, Pratt will get it down, Wilson is a 
solid tackler and has shown it at times this year, Bailey could be the best of the bunch if he can stay healthy IMO.

It’s pretty unlikely they all pan out. At least anything above serviceable anyway. I just hope one of them is a future Pro Bowler (or close to it). Our defense just hasn’t been the same since Burfict went downhill.

(10-07-2020, 11:33 AM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I think they ALL could pan out eventually. ADG I thought was the biggest project out of those 4, Pratt will get it down, Wilson is a 
solid tackler and has shown it at times this year, Bailey could be the best of the bunch if he can stay healthy IMO.

I think they could all pan out as well. These guys are young, had no preseason, no OTA's, etc, etc. Also the injury and covid opt-outs on the DL hasnt helped their cause at all. Give them time and I think they could all be very solid LBs.

(10-07-2020, 11:53 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It’s pretty unlikely they all pan out. At least anything above serviceable anyway. I just hope one of them is a future Pro Bowler (or close to it). Our defense just hasn’t been the same since Burfict went downhill.

Well I didn't mean to sound like I meant all of them are going to be All-Pros, that isn't happening but I think they all have a shot 
at being good, solid Linebackers at the very least. All of them are talented, fast, can tackle and cover.

(10-07-2020, 11:55 AM)bengaloo Wrote: I think they could all pan out as well. These guys are young, had no preseason, no OTA's, etc, etc. Also the injury and covid opt-outs on the DL hasnt helped their cause at all. Give them time and I think they could all be very solid LBs.

Feel the same Bengaloo. These guys have been thrown into the fire and that hasn't been mentioned much.

When you think about all of the things you say here, they have impressed honestly. Tough positions to be put in as rookies and as
a second year LB like Pratt who is next to all new Linebackers.

(10-07-2020, 11:09 AM)Whatever Wrote: It happens a lot due to zone defenses.  However, ADG claimed to run a 4.5 40(he never officially ran one due to his injury) which is average for a WR so he should not be getting beat that badly.  

Yes he should; he's not running at full steam like the WR (who is definitely faster/twitchier in short space) and is flat-footed (to an extent), hence why he gets blown past AND can't keep up.

And I don't care if you do run a 4.5 40; Chris Conley ran a 4.35 and has the combine record for highest vertical jump: as much as an athletic freak ADG may be, Conley is that and thensome.

(10-07-2020, 01:20 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Yes he should; he's not running at full steam like the WR (who is definitely faster/twitchier in short space) and is flat-footed (to an extent), hence why he gets blown past AND can't keep up.

And I don't care if you do run a 4.5 40; Chris Conley ran a 4.35 and has the combine record for highest vertical jump: as much as an athletic freak ADG may be, Conley is that and thensome.

Yep, The NFL is chalked full of fast athletes its instincts and technique to creates that little extra at the Pro Level.

Akeem Davis-Gaither didn't play traditional linebacker at Appalachian State so he is just now learning the reads, technique, and developing those instincts. I'm actually surprised he is getting as this many snaps especially with the offseason we just seen. 

(10-07-2020, 11:33 AM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I think they ALL could pan out eventually. ADG I thought was the biggest project out of those 4, Pratt will get it down, Wilson is a 
solid tackler and has shown it at times this year, Bailey could be the best of the bunch if he can stay healthy IMO.

Part of the the problem is having all these LBs who are 3rd round picks or later. They're typically falling that far because they have something to improve on, they aren't gonna be studs right away. As such, they need a good LB coach to groom them into good starters.

I don't think they have a good enough LB coach to do that.

(10-07-2020, 01:20 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Yes he should; he's not running at full steam like the WR (who is definitely faster/twitchier in short space) and is flat-footed (to an extent), hence why he gets blown past AND can't keep up.

And I don't care if you do run a 4.5 40; Chris Conley ran a 4.35 and has the combine record for highest vertical jump: as much as an athletic freak ADG may be, Conley is that and thensome.

Not to mention a LB isn't meant to cover a WR. A LB is meant to cover a RB or TE.
If you wanna cover a WR, put a DB on them.

(10-07-2020, 02:15 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Part of the the problem is having all these LBs who are 3rd round picks or later. They're typically falling that far because they have something to improve on, they aren't gonna be studs right away. As such, they need a good LB coach to groom them into good starters.

I don't think they have a good enough LB coach to do that.

We will see, I like Golden already better than Tem and Haslett.

Also, not all 1st and 2nd round Linebackers are studs either. I liked Pratt just as much as Devin White in that Draft, I don't know
how well White has been doing but I think Pratt can be just as good and was drafted in the 3rd as you know.

(10-07-2020, 05:47 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: We will see, I like Golden already better than Tem and Haslett.

Also, not all 1st and 2nd round Linebackers are studs either. I liked Pratt just as much as Devin White in that Draft, I don't know
how well White has been doing but I think Pratt can be just as good and was drafted in the 3rd as you know.

Devin White PFF grades:
2019 - 51.9 (46.9 run, 52.8 pass rush, 57,4 coverage)
2020 - 45.3 (54.0 run, 82.1 pass rush, 37.0 coverage)

Devin Bush:
2019 - 62.9 (63.3 run, 62.4 pass rush, 65.2 coverage)
2020 - 59.3 (64.4 run, 62.5 pass rush, 55.4 coverage)

So neither of the top guys have been studs (yet anyway). And you're right that there's no guarantee. But the expectation is the earlier you take someone, the more likely they should turn into a good player. Otherwise, don't take them that early.

Pratt's scores btw:
2019 - 51.0 (58.7 run, 51.3 pass rush, 49.1 coverage)
2020 - 44.1 (37.9 run, 63.5 pass rush, 60.3 coverage)

(10-07-2020, 05:54 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Devin White PFF grades:
2019 - 51.9 (46.9 run, 52.8 pass rush, 57,4 coverage)
2020 - 45.3 (54.0 run, 82.1 pass rush, 37.0 coverage)

Devin Bush:
2019 - 62.9 (63.3 run, 62.4 pass rush, 65.2 coverage)
2020 - 59.3 (64.4 run, 62.5 pass rush, 55.4 coverage)

So neither of the top guys have been studs (yet anyway). And you're right that there's no guarantee. But the expectation is the earlier you take someone, the more likely they should turn into a good player. Otherwise, don't take them that early.

Pratt's scores btw:
2019 - 51.0 (58.7 run, 51.3 pass rush, 49.1 coverage)
2020 - 44.1 (37.9 run, 63.5 pass rush, 60.3 coverage)

Thanks for this Ocho. Surprised White has been that good in pass rush and surprised Pratt has been that bad stopping the run
honestly. At least Pratt has been decent in coverage, still have very high hopes for him and hope once Geno comes back and we
see him and Reader and not backups next to Reader we will see if that frees up these LB's to be better in the run game.

You wouldn't of taken White or Bush over Jonah now would you? Don't think you would and it wasn't an option anyways.

Sample is starting to come around and look like a good pick now and I like Pratt so I like how it is shaking out for us for once.

(10-07-2020, 06:09 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Thanks for this Ocho. Surprised White has been that good in pass rush and surprised Pratt has been that bad stopping the run
honestly. At least Pratt has been decent in coverage, still have very high hopes for him and hope once Geno comes back and we
see him and Reader and not backups next to Reader we will see if that frees up these LB's to be better in the run game.

You wouldn't of taken White or Bush over Jonah now would you? Don't think you would and it wasn't an option anyways.

Sample is starting to come around and look like a good pick now and I like Pratt so I like how it is shaking out for us for once.

Jonah Williams was my favorite prospect in the 2019 draft, so I wouldn't have taken anyone else over him 
But in terms of White vs Bush, I preferred White.

I fully expect the run defense to get better when Geno is back btw.
While Geno gets praise (rightfully so) with his pass rush ability, he's been solid against the run for many years.
He's had a 70+ PFF rating against the run since 2015.
Having better DL play will definitely help the LBs.

As for Sample, he's run blocking very well right now. 3rd best run blocking TE in the league right now according to PFF.
He's giving me more confidence in his receiving ability this year compared to when he was drafted.
He's on pace to have 400+ yards this season, and it could get up to between 600-700 by season's end if he averages 45 yards a game. I picked 45 yards because that's about what he had in Games 2 and 4. Games 1 and 3 only had 1 reception each, so hopefully we don't see that happening much moving forward.

(10-07-2020, 11:19 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Jonah Williams was my favorite prospect in the 2019 draft, so I wouldn't have taken anyone else over him 
But in terms of White vs Bush, I preferred White.

I fully expect the run defense to get better when Geno is back btw.
While Geno gets praise (rightfully so) with his pass rush ability, he's been solid against the run for many years.
He's had a 70+ PFF rating against the run since 2015.
Having better DL play will definitely help the LBs.

As for Sample, he's run blocking very well right now. 3rd best run blocking TE in the league right now according to PFF.
He's giving me more confidence in his receiving ability this year compared to when he was drafted.
He's on pace to have 400+ yards this season, and it could get up to between 600-700 by season's end if he averages 45 yards a game. I picked 45 yards because that's about what he had in Games 2 and 4. Games 1 and 3 only had 1 reception each, so hopefully we don't see that happening much moving forward.

Same about Jonah.

Awesome post man, I thought the same about White vs. Bush myself. I just think Bush went to a better Defense and DC.

Agree on Geno and didn't know Sample has run blocked THAT well, impressive. Think Sample could be a good one with Burrow.

The LBers are being set up to fail with the dopey 2LB sets we run. With no Geno we need to run a 3-4 set with Reader at NT.

(10-08-2020, 12:48 AM)Joelist Wrote: The LBers are being set up to fail with the dopey 2LB sets we run. With no Geno we need to run a 3-4 set with Reader at NT.

I agree, but the DL should be Dunlap-Reader-Atkins in the case of a 3-4 with Lawson and Hubbard as the OLBs.
With Atkins out, who should play DE? Andrew Brown? Or if you put Hubbard at DE, who plays OLB?

(10-08-2020, 09:32 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I agree, but the DL should be Dunlap-Reader-Atkins in the case of a 3-4 with Lawson and Hubbard as the OLBs.
With Atkins out, who should play DE? Andrew Brown? Or if you put Hubbard at DE, who plays OLB?

Is Geno officially out again next Sunday?

(10-08-2020, 01:33 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Is Geno officially out again next Sunday?

I don't think so, I was just replying to Joe's comment about with Geno out, we should run a 3-4.

(10-07-2020, 11:19 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Jonah Williams was my favorite prospect in the 2019 draft, so I wouldn't have taken anyone else over him 
But in terms of White vs Bush, I preferred White.

I fully expect the run defense to get better when Geno is back btw.
While Geno gets praise (rightfully so) with his pass rush ability, he's been solid against the run for many years.
He's had a 70+ PFF rating against the run since 2015.
Having better DL play will definitely help the LBs.

As for Sample, he's run blocking very well right now. 3rd best run blocking TE in the league right now according to PFF.
He's giving me more confidence in his receiving ability this year compared to when he was drafted.
He's on pace to have 400+ yards this season, and it could get up to between 600-700 by season's end if he averages 45 yards a game. I picked 45 yards because that's about what he had in Games 2 and 4. Games 1 and 3 only had 1 reception each, so hopefully we don't see that happening much moving forward.

Good Post!