It's obvious how frustrated the fans have been this season thus far, but thats not surprising in the least bit. We as fans don't really know whats going on behind the scenes with the coaching staff and players. My question is if the season continues and the Bengals win only 3 games or so do you think Zac will lose the players confidence in him or do you think they have a different perspective being in the thick of things?

Publicly they will say positive things. With that said I feel he already lost the lockerroom. That's why he should have been fired on Monday

Holding the locker room is his greatest accomplishment so far, and I don't see any signs (other than other people projecting their feelings onto the players) that he is losing it. They all still appear to be buying in to what he's selling. (except maybe Dunlap, who was pissed cuz he got demoted with reason)

I think he'll lose the veterans who played primarily under Marvin.
Green, Dunlap, Atkins.

If ZT wins 5 games out of 32 and he doesn't lose the locker room then we need to lose the locker room because the locker room is clearly full of losers.

Hes already lost at least Green and Dunlap. I feel like he's lost a lot more in private.

Better question: will it matter? Plus, half the starters on this team shouldn't be here come next year ( opinion ).

(10-14-2020, 06:29 PM)Destro Wrote: Better question: will it matter? Plus, half the starters on this team shouldn't be here come next year ( opinion ).

Just keep replacing everyone and be perpetually rebuilding every season brilliant. how bout just replacing the head coach and start from there.

I guess if Burrow doesn't mind taking marching orders from ZT that is all that matters. I was told Burrow would scream at and/or piledrive anyone who dares get in his way of winning, though.

I think He already has... It started with Baltimore pounding him again..

Nothing loses a locker room quicker than losing.

(10-14-2020, 04:08 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Publicly they will say positive things. With that said I feel he already lost the lockerroom. That's why he should have been fired on Monday

What specifically leads you to believe that he's lost the locker room and the team has given up playing for him?  

I think some of the older vets are probably in a "win now or never" mode, but I don't think it's fair at all to say the team has given up fully.  I also don't agree at all that he should have been fired after losing a game everyone knew would be lost in a rebuilding year.  But call me a patient optimist.  I've only been a fan for 30+ years...

(10-14-2020, 04:29 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I think he'll lose the veterans who played primarily under Marvin.
Green, Dunlap, Atkins.

I believe he's already lost them.

Even if Zac is the biggest players' coach of all time, losing will erode any good will he has gained via his personality and coaching style.

They need to turn it around fast.

(10-14-2020, 07:07 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: What specifically leads you to believe that he's lost the locker room and the team has given up playing for him?  

I think some of the older vets are probably in a "win now or never" mode, but I don't think it's fair at all to say the team has given up fully.  I also don't agree at all that he should have been fired after losing a game everyone knew would be lost in a rebuilding year.  But call me a patient optimist.  I've only been a fan for 30+ years...

An optimistic take could be that we can find a better HC if we move on from ZT.

(10-14-2020, 07:11 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Even if Zac is the biggest players' coach of all time, losing will erode any good will he has gained via his personality and coaching style.

They need to turn it around fast.

I'm not an NFL player, but I'd wager if you asked them what their lifelong dream is they'd mention winning a SB, not "my ultimate dream is to play for a coach I like."  I'm not saying a player's coach can't be good...Tomlin and Arians come to mind, but I'm not sure why we are so fixated on ZT being likable.  

Did we go into 2019 saying "The next coach has GOTTA be more likeable than Marvin?" or did we say "The next coach has GOT win more than Marvin?"

(10-14-2020, 07:17 PM)Nately120 Wrote: An optimistic take could be that we can find a better HC if we move on from ZT.

We literally just went through this with ML and ZT hasn't been two full years and everyone's running to boot him out the door.  

100% there are better head coaches, coordinators, position coaches, specialists, etc than are working for the Bengals.  But is one actually available now?  Why put an interim HC in to generate more turmoil and potentially be an entirely new set of of schemes just to almost guaranteed do it again in the off-season?  The stats are out there for how well interim coaches do.  It's a knee-jerk decision with little payoff.  If ZT hits a 2-3 win season here and shows no more improvement, fine, fire him.  I'm on board.  But asking for him to be fired before the halfway point of the season?  What concrete benefit is there to that? 

(10-14-2020, 07:07 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: What specifically leads you to believe that he's lost the locker room and the team has given up playing for him?  

My question as well to the OP?

It's quite clear this OL is not doing their job. As we started into this year, our 2 biggest concerns were the OL and the defense. Well, the defense did pretty decent against a stout Baltimore offense. Now we are left with an OL that has allowed Burrow to be sacked 22 times for a loss of 155yds. Joe has somehow kept it close in all games until Baltimore.

Jim Turner is your problem, not Zac Taylor. Yes, Zac has a lot of things he needs to work on but the locker room is not one of them. He want's leaders in that room who take responsibility. Not like players from the Marvin era who think seniority should determine who the started is or ones like AJ that gave up. You can blame that crap on those guys but not ZT or talk that he's lost the locker room. 

This offense is fighting hard. The OL is probably fighting hard too, but some guys have reached their potential and need to go. Even if we bring in a guy or two it wont help the OL as a whole. At the end of the year, we need to clean that shit up and I think Zac will address it. I hope his first move is firing Turner.

First of all I voted "no" before I read the part about him only winning 3 games this year. If that happens then he will probably lose the trust of the team, but there is absolutely no proof that he has lost the locker room at this time.

But it does not really matter because so many people here who never speak to any Bengal players love to just make stuff up in their heads and say it is true.

For example the same people who claimed Zac would earn the respect of his players by "holding them accountable" now claim he is losing the locker room by benching Dunlap.

(10-14-2020, 07:22 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm not an NFL player, but I'd wager if you asked them what their lifelong dream is they'd mention winning a SB, not "my ultimate dream is to play for a coach I like."  I'm not saying a player's coach can't be good...Tomlin and Arians come to mind, but I'm not sure why we are so fixated on ZT being likable.  

Did we go into 2019 saying "The next coach has GOTTA be more likeable than Marvin?" or did we say "The next coach has GOT win more than Marvin?"

It's focused on right now because it's basically Zac's only verifiable strength.

His playcalling is TBD (at best) because of the Oline.

His Offensive talent evaluation is kind of scattered. He struggles with Oline, clearly, but he obviously had enough sense to draft Joe Burrow and Tee Higgins is looking like a good player as well, so that's another TBD, maybe a slight lean towards proficient if you don't count the Oline.

His defensive talent evaluation is unmeasurable as he is an offense first coach, but if he had a significant hand in bringing in the free agents onf defense, he seems to have done a decent job, so give that a TBD maybe a lean proficient.

His gameplanning seems bad. Maybe that is inhibited by his Oline again, but we can't just keep using that to cover for all the problems.

His scheming seems...at best mediocre. Again caveats for the Oline.

His clock management has been fine, I suppose. Not really blowing me away but it's not blatantly horrific at least.

And then his personality and coaching style. He seems to be a players' coach and he is more open to the media than most head coaches.

Those are his only real strengths at this point in his career which is why they're always referenced.

Maybe someday we'll have a line that can protect our QB and we can actually test his other attributes but until that time comes, we have to assume he is mediocre at those or worse, as he has shown he cannot scheme and call a game to get past a bad Oline.