I don't buy the "new offense" stuff at all. I'm sorry, I just don't.

First of all, it's not a new offense. He's had over a year and a half to study up on it, even if he didn't play until this season.

He had OTA's and the Minicamp last season, prior to getting hurt in training camp. He actually returned to practice last season on October 10th. He had multiple practice throughout the season. Not to mention all the team meetings, position meetings, and film.

Meanwhile, Tee Higgins and Mike Thomas got no OTA's, no minicamp, no nothing. First year in system. No meetings last season, no film, and no practices prior to this summer.

Higgins is a rookie, who is not only new to the offense, he's new to the league. Thomas is new to the offense, and picked up off the scrap heap.

AJ Green is a 10 year vet, that, again, has had over 18 months to get a handle on this offense. Yet he clearly looks the worst of these 3.

Look, I'm not saying I expect to come into an actual live game, after 18 months of rust, in a new(er) offense, and completely light it up right off the bat, week 1. But this explanation doesn't actually do anything to explain what is truly ailing him.

He looks slow as shit, and at times he looks disinterested. That's what's really going on here. Zac Taylor's offense isn't causing this.

If Tee Higgins can produce like he as in this system, with him being a rookie, then there's no excuse for AJ Green to lean on that it's just going to take time to get used to it.

I mean, we're 5 games into the season. What are we talking about here? If this guy was physically capable, then you could throw him on a new team and he should be able to pick up enough in 2 weeks, to be able to go out and get the team 50 yards. But he's simply not that guy anymore.

He's beyond washed up. The offense, as much I personally dislike it at times, has nothing to do with it.

(10-15-2020, 05:37 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I don't buy the "new offense" stuff at all. I'm sorry, I just don't.

First of all, it's not a new offense. He's had over a year and a half to study up on it, even if he didn't play until this season.

He had OTA's and the Minicamp last season, prior to getting hurt in training camp. He actually returned to practice last season on October 10th. He had multiple practice throughout the season. Not to mention all the team meetings, position meetings, and film.

Meanwhile, Tee Higgins and Mike Thomas got no OTA's, no minicamp, no nothing. First year in system. No meetings last season, no film, and no practices prior to this summer.

Higgins is a rookie, who is not only new to the offense, he's new to the league. Thomas is new to the offense, and picked up off the scrap heap.

AJ Green is a 10 year vet, that, again, has had over 18 months to get a handle on this offense. Yet he clearly looks the worst of these 3.

Look, I'm not saying I expect to come into an actual live game, after 18 months of rust, in a new(er) offense, and completely light it up right off the bat, week 1. But this explanation doesn't actually do anything to explain what is truly ailing him.

He looks slow as shit, and at times he looks disinterested. That's what's really going on here. Zac Taylor's offense isn't causing this.

If Tee Higgins can produce like he as in this system, with him being a rookie, then there's no excuse for AJ Green to lean on that it's just going to take time to get used to it.

I mean, we're 5 games into the season. What are we talking about here? If this guy was physically capable, then you could throw him on a new team and he should be able to pick up enough in 2 weeks, to be able to go out and get the team 50 yards. But he's simply not that guy anymore.

He's beyond washed up. The offense, as much I personally dislike it at times, has nothing to do with it.

You make a good point here. If what he says is true then AJ really is pretty brain dead. We all know that isn’t the case, he’s a smart guy. He came into the league during a lockout year and put up big numbers in what was a new offense to him.

(10-15-2020, 05:37 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I don't buy the "new offense" stuff at all. I'm sorry, I just don't.

First of all, it's not a new offense. He's had over a year and a half to study up on it, even if he didn't play until this season.

He had OTA's and the Minicamp last season, prior to getting hurt in training camp. He actually returned to practice last season on October 10th. He had multiple practice throughout the season. Not to mention all the team meetings, position meetings, and film.

Meanwhile, Tee Higgins and Mike Thomas got no OTA's, no minicamp, no nothing. First year in system. No meetings last season, no film, and no practices prior to this summer.

Higgins is a rookie, who is not only new to the offense, he's new to the league. Thomas is new to the offense, and picked up off the scrap heap.

AJ Green is a 10 year vet, that, again, has had over 18 months to get a handle on this offense. Yet he clearly looks the worst of these 3.

Look, I'm not saying I expect to come into an actual live game, after 18 months of rust, in a new(er) offense, and completely light it up right off the bat, week 1. But this explanation doesn't actually do anything to explain what is truly ailing him.

He looks slow as shit, and at times he looks disinterested. That's what's really going on here. Zac Taylor's offense isn't causing this.

If Tee Higgins can produce like he as in this system, with him being a rookie, then there's no excuse for AJ Green to lean on that it's just going to take time to get used to it.

I mean, we're 5 games into the season. What are we talking about here? If this guy was physically capable, then you could throw him on a new team and he should be able to pick up enough in 2 weeks, to be able to go out and get the team 50 yards. But he's simply not that guy anymore.

He's beyond washed up. The offense, as much I personally dislike it at times, has nothing to do with it.

You’re not wrong about any of this. I’m just glad he’s changing his tune and hopefully going out with some class.

(10-15-2020, 05:37 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I don't buy the "new offense" stuff at all.  I'm sorry, I just don't.

First of all, it's not a new offense.  He's had over a year and a half to study up on it, even if he didn't play until this season.

He had OTA's and the Minicamp last season, prior to getting hurt in training camp.  He actually returned to practice last season on October 10th.  He had multiple practice throughout the season.  Not to mention all the team meetings, position meetings, and film.

Meanwhile, Tee Higgins and Mike Thomas got no OTA's, no minicamp, no nothing.  First year in system.  No meetings last season, no film, and no practices prior to this summer.

Higgins is a rookie, who is not only new to the offense, he's new to the league.  Thomas is new to the offense, and picked up off the scrap heap.

AJ Green is a 10 year vet, that, again, has had over 18 months to get a handle on this offense.  Yet he clearly looks the worst of these 3.

Look, I'm not saying I expect to come into an actual live game, after 18 months of rust, in a new(er) offense, and completely light it up right off the bat, week 1.  But this explanation doesn't actually do anything to explain what is truly ailing him.

He looks slow as shit, and at times he looks disinterested.  That's what's really going on here.  Zac Taylor's offense isn't causing this.

If Tee Higgins can produce like he as in this system, with him being a rookie, then there's no excuse for AJ Green to lean on that it's just going to take time to get used to it.

I mean, we're 5 games into the season.  What are we talking about here?  If this guy was physically capable, then you could throw him on a new team and he should be able to pick up enough in 2 weeks, to be able to go out and get the team 50 yards.  But he's simply not that guy anymore.  

He's beyond washed up.  The offense, as much I personally dislike it at times, has nothing to do with it.

  Bolded in red, hit the nail on the head.


AJ doesn't have a clue how to act not being THE #1 receiver that defenses game plan around. He's used to being THE guy, and now he's just A guy...

This is the first time in AJ's football life where he has struggled. It is not just physically but he is still struggling learning the offense. That fustration is hindering everything.

(10-15-2020, 05:37 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I don't buy the "new offense" stuff at all. I'm sorry, I just don't.

First of all, it's not a new offense. He's had over a year and a half to study up on it, even if he didn't play until this season.

He had OTA's and the Minicamp last season, prior to getting hurt in training camp. He actually returned to practice last season on October 10th. He had multiple practice throughout the season. Not to mention all the team meetings, position meetings, and film.

Meanwhile, Tee Higgins and Mike Thomas got no OTA's, no minicamp, no nothing. First year in system. No meetings last season, no film, and no practices prior to this summer.

Higgins is a rookie, who is not only new to the offense, he's new to the league. Thomas is new to the offense, and picked up off the scrap heap.

AJ Green is a 10 year vet, that, again, has had over 18 months to get a handle on this offense. Yet he clearly looks the worst of these 3.

Look, I'm not saying I expect to come into an actual live game, after 18 months of rust, in a new(er) offense, and completely light it up right off the bat, week 1. But this explanation doesn't actually do anything to explain what is truly ailing him.

He looks slow as shit, and at times he looks disinterested. That's what's really going on here. Zac Taylor's offense isn't causing this.

If Tee Higgins can produce like he as in this system, with him being a rookie, then there's no excuse for AJ Green to lean on that it's just going to take time to get used to it.

I mean, we're 5 games into the season. What are we talking about here? If this guy was physically capable, then you could throw him on a new team and he should be able to pick up enough in 2 weeks, to be able to go out and get the team 50 yards. But he's simply not that guy anymore.

He's beyond washed up. The offense, as much I personally dislike it at times, has nothing to do with it.

I don't know what's wrong with him, but let's not pretend he didn't look disinterested his entire career. I met him and Marvin Jones 5 years ago. He's not the liveliest guy you'll ever come across. I remember some of us reading his body language way back in 2014.... He hates it here. He knows Andy's not the guy. He's gonna leave when his deal is up.

He may be done. It could be more than coincidence that Julio doesn't look the same in Atlanta either. I just don't think facial expressions are the best indicator of what's going on.

(10-15-2020, 07:38 PM)jason Wrote: I don't know what's wrong with him, but let's not pretend he didn't look disinterested his entire career. I met him and Marvin Jones 5 years ago. He's not the liveliest guy you'll ever come across. I remember some of us reading his body language way back in 2014.... He hates it here. He knows Andy's not the guy. He's gonna leave when his deal is up.

He may be done. It could be more than coincidence that Julio doesn't look the same in Atlanta either. I just don't think facial expressions are the best indicator of what's going on.

As I was reading this thread, it made me curious. 

We know AJ has bailed put AD a lot during their career together but now I wonder if a lot of the INTs we blamed on Andy (and him putting the ball in a "bad spot") might actually be attributed to AJ not being in the spot he's supposed to be, especially with how different he looks with Burrow. 

Considering Burrow hits most targets (or at least puts it in a good position) and AJ missing his targets so much that maybe AJ is the one that is/was constantly out of position.

(10-15-2020, 05:37 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: AJ Green is a 10 year vet, that, again, has had over 18 months to get a handle on this offense.  Yet he clearly looks the worst of these 3.

Look, I'm not saying I expect to come into an actual live game, after 18 months of rust, in a new(er) offense, and completely light it up right off the bat, week 1.  But this explanation doesn't actually do anything to explain what is truly ailing him.

He looks slow as shit, and at times he looks disinterested.  That's what's really going on here.  Zac Taylor's offense isn't causing this.

If Tee Higgins can produce like he as in this system, with him being a rookie, then there's no excuse for AJ Green to lean on that it's just going to take time to get used to it.

Agree

I've rewatched some film of AJ and he looks like he's running in deep snow. He looks like he's afraid to mix it up with DB's. He looks, like you say, disinterested. Back in the 70's 80's they'd say "he's hearing footsteps".

I don't pretend to know what's wrong with AJ ? But I don't believe the current QB, team, scheme, plays, have anything to do with it.

It's sad to see it end this way for him but I believe he's done. His heart just isn't in it.

(10-15-2020, 10:10 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Agree

I've rewatched some film of AJ and he looks like he's running in deep snow. He looks like he's afraid to mix it up with DB's. He looks, like you say, disinterested. Back in the 70's 80's they'd say "he's hearing footsteps".

I don't pretend to know what's wrong with AJ ? But I don't believe the current QB, team, scheme, plays, have anything to do with it.

It's sad to see it end this way for him but I believe he's done. His heart just isn't in it.

I’m guessing he’s tentative due to the injury history and hasn’t gone 100% due to the fear of missing more time. Perhaps benching him will actually help. Getting benched has the same end result as injury, no playing time. Perhaps next week he will go full speed now that he knows it’s the same end result anyway. What’s he got to lose?

(10-15-2020, 03:22 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Ted Ginn has had multiple 700+ yard seasons.
While Ginn was never an elite WR1, putting up multiple 700+ yard seasons is on the WR2 tier.

If Ross can be that (he has put up 500+ yards last year in just 8 games), is that not worth playing on a team as a WR2/3?

People hold his draft slot too much against him IMO. It's irrelevant after his rookie contract, as it becomes strictly $$ focused.
And Ross has not done enough to be a $10+ mill receiver. I don't think he gets more than $5 mill a year. But whatever team signs him has a chance to get a good bang for their buck.

EDIT - Holy moly, I just now realized Ginn, like Ross, was the 9th overall pick. Spooky.

Yup. They are very much alike.

In the first I think 7 or 8 years Ginn had one good season going around 700 plus yards. I think it was year 2 with Miami, then Miami gave up and he went to San Fran and did nothing, then Carolina and struggled, then had a few good seasons with Carolina, and I want to say one decent one with New Orleans, then went back to just being not good.

Ross struggles with hands and consistency, the exact same issues that have always been there for Ted Ginn.

They were both the 9th pick, both are under 6 feet tall, and both are know for their speed and the "what they could do with that speed if they had the ball in the open field." Problem for both... the drops and getting the ball in the open field.

(10-15-2020, 10:26 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote:  Getting benched has the same end result as injury, no playing time. Perhaps next week he will go full speed now that he knows it’s the same end result anyway. What’s he got to lose?

Benching players that are not producing is something that people have claimed to want our coaches to do for years. Now that we have a coach that benches or demotes players who are not performing, some are criticizing those moves.   I suspect we may see a very different AJ and Dunlap for the rest of the year.

(10-15-2020, 05:37 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I don't buy the "new offense" stuff at all.  I'm sorry, I just don't.

First of all, it's not a new offense.  He's had over a year and a half to study up on it, even if he didn't play until this season.

He had OTA's and the Minicamp last season, prior to getting hurt in training camp.  He actually returned to practice last season on October 10th.  He had multiple practice throughout the season.  Not to mention all the team meetings, position meetings, and film.

Meanwhile, Tee Higgins and Mike Thomas got no OTA's, no minicamp, no nothing.  First year in system.  No meetings last season, no film, and no practices prior to this summer.

Higgins is a rookie, who is not only new to the offense, he's new to the league.  Thomas is new to the offense, and picked up off the scrap heap.

AJ Green is a 10 year vet, that, again, has had over 18 months to get a handle on this offense.  Yet he clearly looks the worst of these 3.

Look, I'm not saying I expect to come into an actual live game, after 18 months of rust, in a new(er) offense, and completely light it up right off the bat, week 1.  But this explanation doesn't actually do anything to explain what is truly ailing him.

He looks slow as shit, and at times he looks disinterested.  That's what's really going on here.  Zac Taylor's offense isn't causing this.

If Tee Higgins can produce like he as in this system, with him being a rookie, then there's no excuse for AJ Green to lean on that it's just going to take time to get used to it.

I mean, we're 5 games into the season.  What are we talking about here?  If this guy was physically capable, then you could throw him on a new team and he should be able to pick up enough in 2 weeks, to be able to go out and get the team 50 yards.  But he's simply not that guy anymore.  

He's beyond washed up.  The offense, as much I personally dislike it at times, has nothing to do with it.

He doesn't just look it, the game pass numbers show it.  15 MPH top end on a critical third down at the start of the game is all you need to know.  However, if you need more, look at PFF numbers for separation metrics.  Dead last among all NFL WRs.  That's just awful.  

(10-15-2020, 11:49 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Yup. They are very much alike.

In the first I think 7 or 8 years Ginn had one good season going around 700 plus yards. I think it was year 2 with Miami, then Miami gave up and he went to San Fran and did nothing, then Carolina and struggled, then had a few good seasons with Carolina, and I want to say one decent one with New Orleans, then went back to just being not good.

Ross struggles with hands and consistency, the exact same issues that have always been there for Ted Ginn.

They were both the 9th pick, both are under 6 feet tall, and both are know for their speed and the "what they could do with that speed if they had the ball in the open field." Problem for both... the drops and getting the ball in the open field.

Yep.

But people figured Ginn out pretty well when it came to value in FA.

When he signed with Panthers in 2015, it was a 2-year, $4.2 mill deal.
They got 700+ yard seasons both years of that deal.
Pretty damn good value for $2.1 mill per year.

Ross could end up doing the same, although I think a team would/could pay a bit more because he's younger than Ginn was at the time.
I mean would you rather pay $18 mill for AJ Green 2020 or $2-3 mill for John Ross?
I'd rather pay John Ross $2-3 mill than pay AJ Green $18 mill.

3-19 as an NFL play caller. Three and Nineteen!!!!! End of discussion. Oh yeah, Zacs doing a hell of a job.

Edit: I was just going off of the top of my head with his OC/HC record. Pardon me let's give credit where it's due 3-17-1!!!!

Three-- Seventeen-- One!!! Props! He's Killin it!

(10-16-2020, 10:50 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Yep.

But people figured Ginn out pretty well when it came to value in FA.

When he signed with Panthers in 2015, it was a 2-year, $4.2 mill deal.
They got 700+ yard seasons both years of that deal.
Pretty damn good value for $2.1 mill per year.

Ross could end up doing the same, although I think a team would/could pay a bit more because he's younger than Ginn was at the time.
I mean would you rather pay $18 mill for AJ Green 2020 or $2-3 mill for John Ross?
I'd rather pay John Ross $2-3 mill than pay AJ Green $18 mill.

Is there an option C?

We have Higgins, Tate, and Boyd, and also Thomas who outside of having the ball punched out in the Ravens game has been serviceable.

So, why not move on from Ross and Green, save the money and look in a new direction. 

(10-16-2020, 03:56 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Is there an option C?

We have Higgins, Tate, and Boyd, and also Thomas who outside of having the ball punched out in the Ravens game has been serviceable.

So, why not move on from Ross and Green, save the money and look in a new direction. 

Of course there's an option C...and D.
Bengals could draft another WR (preferably not Rd 1 or 2) and/or get a different vet WR.

(10-16-2020, 04:03 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Of course there's an option C...and D.
Bengals could draft another WR (preferably not Rd 1 or 2) and/or get a different vet WR.

I haven't been watching much college this season, is this class as deep at WR as last year? If so, a 3rd round pick on a WR would work.

I think AJs issues are more mental than physical.

Everybody (AJ included) seemed ready to move on from ML. How did that work? AJ knows he isnt getting younger and finally gets change and gets saddled with Offensive guru wonderboy. Who quickly turns into Wonderturd.

He had a chance to escape this shit show and they tagged him.

Of course his head and heart isn't in it....

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It is so odd that the biggest supposed position of strength (WR corps) is a weakness and so is the defensive line. Sure, injuries are involved again but it is amazing how quickly that turned.

(10-17-2020, 10:13 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: It is so odd that the biggest supposed position of strength (WR corps) is a weakness and so is the defensive line. Sure, injuries are involved again but it is amazing how quickly that turned.

Shouldn’t really be much a surprise given the ages of some of the key pieces in those position groups (AJ, Dunlap, Geno).

Hard to win when you’re getting absolutely nothing out of your top paid guys (those 3 plus Waynes).