Lot of discussion rightfully so on fixing the O-Line so who should we target?

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/offensive-line/

Joe Thuney would be my #1 target.... who else?

I would stay away from anyone in 30s. this is going to be a 3 year transformation.. you sign a FA now.... they are done about the time we rebuild they are mid 30s past prime.. better going for a 25/26 mid range guy.. We are going to need to draft high and heavy on Oline in next two drafts

(09-30-2020, 12:45 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: That’s a looooong list and a long way to go before the end of the season. The only name that really jumped out for being a good young player that has high upside is Moton from Carolina.

The way things are shaping up....I would try and sign at least 3 new FAs and draft at least 3 to 4 new Oline and basically gut that unit. Looking at that list even the guys at the bottom to me appear like better options than what we have already. And Yes Im throwing Hopkins in this too...he is nothing special ....just serviceable.   

I'd love to have Thuney, but the Bengals have never sunk a lot of money into guards, and I doubt that changes. Plus New England will have plenty of cap room to sign him next year.

However, I doubt they re-sign him and Jermaine Eluemunor, who overlapped with Turner one year at Texas A&M. Who knows if Turner will still be our OL coach next year, but if he is, I could see the Bengals making a push for a mid-tier FA Guard. Eluemunor is an ascending player. I'm just trying to think in terms of who is realistic, not my wish list per se.

Def need to get Ogbuehi, John Miller and Keaton Sutherland in here. Also, get Tyree St Louis. He has the same name as Brad St Louis, so that's a win. Hire Alexander as a special assistant to Turner. Get Johnathan Martin and Richie Incognito in there to get Turner into his comfort zone. He can tell some gay jokes, grab some female intern's boobies, and stick fat players in a sweat lodge while starving them and calling their moms whores.

Stock up on the goddamned ketchup bottles while you're at it. And build a draft strategy around skinny OT that look like basketball players and can't run block. Draft a guy high in the first, then def change his position immediately. Sewell will be an All Pro long snapper for the ages. Most importantly, get a hurt dude in round 1. Hurt dudes that can't play for a full season then have to spend their second year learning are the best.

(10-03-2020, 04:17 PM)samhain Wrote: Def need to get Ogbuehi, John Miller and Keaton Sutherland in here.  Also, get Tyree St Louis.  He has the same name as Brad St Louis, so that's a win.  Hire Alexander as a special assistant to Turner.  Get Johnathan Martin and Richie Incognito in there to get Turner into his comfort zone.  He can tell some gay jokes, grab some female intern's boobies, and stick fat players in a sweat lodge while starving them and calling their moms whores.  

Stock up on the goddamned ketchup bottles while you're at it.  And build a draft strategy around skinny OT that look like basketball players and can't run block.  Draft a guy high in the first, then def change his position immediately.  Sewell will be an All Pro long snapper for the ages.  Most importantly, get a hurt dude in round 1.  Hurt dudes that can't play for a full season then have to spend their second year learning are the best.

I sense 

Throw whatever money you need to at Joe Thuney (RG) and David Bakhtiari (LT) to get them to come here, kick Jonah in to LG.

Throw whatever leftover money you have at Hunter Henry (TE) who should help with both blocking and a huge help catching.

Then package whatever picks you need to get ahead of the Giants in the 2021 draft (2021 1st and 2nd + 2022 2nd?) to get a Burrow to Ja'Marr Chase reunion going.

Offense is now set to be able to potentially beat anyone for the next 4+ years.

QB: Joe Burrow
WR1: Ja'Marr Chase
WR2: Tee Higgins
WR3: Tyler Boyd
TE: Hunter Henry
RB: Joe Mixon
LT: David Bakhtiari
LG: Jonah Williams
C: Tre Hopkins
RG: Joe Thuney
RT: 2021 3rd Round Pick

I'll roll with that offense against any given defense. That's a legit SB winning offense so long as the D can manage to even be mediocre.

(10-10-2020, 09:55 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: I’m not sure I want a 3rd round pick starting at RT. I think more should be invested in the line, than the WR group. Burrow is going to make WR’s, he isn’t going to do the same for the Oline. Also, OG is loaded for the 2021 draft.

QB: Joe Burrow
WR1: Tyler Boyd
WR2: Tee Higgins
WR3: Tate/3rd round pick
TE: Hunter Henry
RB: Joe Mixon
LT: Jonah Williams
LG: 2nd round pick (Smith, Davis, Carman, Kraemer, Cleveland)
C: Tre Hopkins
RG: Joe Thuney
RT: 1st round pick (Sewell, Leatherwood, Eichenburg, Cosmi)

Bangup job he's done with Ross and AJ.  

Look, Burrow is playing quite well, but he's not going to make WRs. That line of thought is how you end up with the 2020 Texans.  "We don't need DeAndre Hopkins, we have Watson throwing the ball." Bengals need a #1 WR. 

Brady has Evans, Mahomes has Hill, Brees has Thomas, Wilson's huge year so far coincided with Metcalf making a big stride forward from a strong rookie season because Tyler Lockett wasn't enough.

If OG is loaded for the 2021 draft (I haven't checked) then revise my list to moving Jonah to RT and using that 3rd on a LG then.

The less OL this FO has to scout/draft, the better. So get all the good OL in FA that you can. I trust the Bengals to draft and develop OL like I trust the Reds to draft and develop a starting pitcher. Lol

(10-10-2020, 10:35 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Key word was “going”. He’s not going to do it as a rookie because he’s still has his own game to improve. I still have hope Green is going to work into at least passable shape at some point this year, but shouldn’t be brought back for next year. Don’t get me started on Ross.

I’ve argued in other threads that we have a #1 and it’s Boyd. Back to back 1,000yd seasons and already leading the league in catches and yards out of the slot this season. And I expect Higgins is going to end up being the #1 by his 3rd year.

There's zero chance Boyd is a #1 WR. Being force fed in garbage time on losing teams doesn't make you a #1. It just makes you the best of a bad bunch.

You know who else had back-to-back 1k seasons? TJ Houshmandzadeh in '06 and '07. Nobody was banging the "TJ is a #1 WR" drum and he had better stats in that period than Boyd.

That's a lot of hope and a lot of time spent waiting. If it doesn't come true, then you've wasted 3 years of Burrow's career without a #1 WR and now you need to pay Burrow an (almost certainly) stupidly large extension and then Boyd and Higgins will have just 1 more year on their deals and you need to let one go because you're paying your QB $30-40m/yr now.

Any plan in the NFL that takes 3 years to hopefully come to fruition is a terrible plan. This league more than any other can only take 1-2 years to both turn a franchise into a SB winner and also turn a SB winner into a trash heap. Play every year like you're trying to win the SB that year. Otherwise you're going to pull a Bengals and squander away a great team core ('11-'15) not adding the pieces you needed to get over the hump because you need to plan for so-and-so's extension 3 years from now.

Nobody has ever been sad that they had 3 good WRs.

(10-10-2020, 11:10 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: There's zero chance Boyd is a #1 WR. Being force fed in garbage time on losing teams doesn't make you a #1. It just makes you the best of a bad bunch.

Garbage Time? 

Only one game this season have the Bengals really been considered out of reach of a win and that was the Browns by 11 points. On the final drive for the Bengals Boyd had 2 catches one in the redzone for a TD to bring the Bengals within 5 and give them a chance for an onside kick.

Tyler Boyd has been the best Slot Receiver in the NFL and one of the better in the league.

Boyd is on pace for almost 1300 yds. That’s a #1 in my book.

(10-10-2020, 11:16 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Only teams with bad offensive lines.

PFF has Boyd rated as the third highest WR in the entire league.

Most receivers take until their third year to reach their full potential. Drafting Chase could have the same time period. Chase might not even make it as a WR in the NFL. So no matter what your planning and hoping.

According to what?

2nd year, maybe, but 3rd? Maybe if they're a later round pick. If you're a 1st or 2nd round pick and you need 3+ years to show up, then something is wrong. (See: Jerome Simpson, John Ross)

Even if they statistically improve later, all the 1st and 2nd round WRs put up a 1k+ season in their first two years and show that they are something special, or they are generally going to end up busts.

I'll gladly take the odds on a bet that Chase is an elite WR in the NFL before Higgins is. I like Higgins, but I wouldn't put him up against a kid who put up nearly 1,800 yards at 21 yards a pop and 20 TDs as a freaking 19-year-old in a 14 game season. Not to mention he did it with the Bengals QB, so you know there's already electric chemistry there.

(The Bengals QB who gladly set records with two #1 receiving options in college. Even if Higgins turns into a #1 in year 3.)

(10-10-2020, 11:24 PM)Synric Wrote: Garbage Time? 

Only one game this season have the Bengals really been considered out of reach of a win and that was the Browns by 11 points. On the final drive for the Bengals Boyd had 2 catches one in the redzone for a TD to bring the Bengals within 5 and give them a chance for an onside kick.

Tyler Boyd has been the best Slot Receiver in the NFL and one of the better in the league.

I highlighted the bit about him having two 1k seasons. The two seasons where the Bengals went 8-24.

Either way, Boyd is never going to put up that 1,400-1,700 yard winning season where teams have to double or triple cover him. He's also never going to be the big play explosive guy that can score a TD on any given play. There's a reason why he signed an extension worth less than $11m/yr while there's guy out there making over $20m/yr. Both he and the Bengals know he's not that top tier guy.

That's not a knock on Boyd. He's a real good player. He's just not a game changer. Go watch 2012 and 2013 AJ Green highlights and then watch Boyd. It's not the same.

(10-11-2020, 12:11 AM)Yojimbo Wrote: But Chase only did that for one year, so was it him, the QB, the system? He also has physical limitations being only 6’0”, which should take him out of the AJ Green/Julio Jones range of draft prospects. But really, for me it just comes back to I’d rather build up the offense and defense lines before worrying about another weapon for Burrow.

DHopkins is 6'1
C Godwin is 6'1
T Hill is 5'10
D Adams is 6'1
A Brown is 5'10
TY Hilton is 5'10
J Smith-Schuster is 6'1
B Cooks is 5'10
O Beckham is 5'11
A Cooper is 6'1
J Landry is 5'11
E Sanders is 5'11
D Jackson is 5'10
A Boldin is 6'1
R Wayne is 6'0
S Smith is 5'9
V Cruz is 6'0
W Welker is 5'9
M Wallace is 6'0
H Nicks is 6'0
G Jennings is 6'0

All guys under 6'2 who have done some high quality work at some point in the previous decade.

Antonio Brown was the unquestioned best WR in football for 5-6 years at 5'10. 

It's just like how the 2nd best QB in football (and probably the 3rd best coming into this season) are both 6'0 or less. (Wilson and Brees at 5'11 and 6'0, respectively).

Heck, Chad Johnson was just 6'1, and he was the best WR in football for a 3 year stretch, and Top 3 over a 6 year span.


- - - - - - - - -

1 year as the greatest WR in the country > 2 years as a good WR

(10-10-2020, 11:54 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: According to what?

2nd year, maybe, but 3rd? Maybe if they're a later round pick. If you're a 1st or 2nd round pick and you need 3+ years to show up, then something is wrong. (See: Jerome Simpson, John Ross)

Even if they statistically improve later, all the 1st and 2nd round WRs put up a 1k+ season in their first two years and show that they are something special, or they are generally going to end up busts.

I'll gladly take the odds on a bet that Chase is an elite WR in the NFL before Higgins is. I like Higgins, but I wouldn't put him up against a kid who put up nearly 1,800 yards at 21 yards a pop and 20 TDs as a freaking 19-year-old in a 14 game season. Not to mention he did it with the Bengals QB, so you know there's already electric chemistry there.

(The Bengals QB who gladly set records with two #1 receiving options in college. Even if Higgins turns into a #1 in year 3.)


I highlighted the bit about him having two 1k seasons. The two seasons where the Bengals went 8-24.

Either way, Boyd is never going to put up that 1,400-1,700 yard winning season where teams have to double or triple cover him. He's also never going to be the big play explosive guy that can score a TD on any given play. There's a reason why he signed an extension worth less than $11m/yr while there's guy out there making over $20m/yr. Both he and the Bengals know he's not that top tier guy.

That's not a knock on Boyd. He's a real good player. He's just not a game changer. Go watch 2012 and 2013 AJ Green highlights and then watch Boyd. It's not the same.

I'd argue against that, if only due to Boyd. He wasn't special his first nor second season but turned it on during season 3. Maybe he's the exception to your rule but I'd wager there's likely other WRs taken in 1/2 that take 3 years to develop.

Wow. Tunsil making 22 mil annually? This team better figure out how to draft OTs in a hurry. I don't see them paying anyone from the outside that kind of money, and I'm not sure I want them to.

Look at what Claypool is doing in Pittsburgh (I liked him more than Higgins, along with the dude from USC).

Point is, you can get a stud WR late second in most drafts. If the line is good and the QB is good.

OL should be the #1 and #2 priority. I could give two craps about over/under 30. Burrow needs protected ASAP. I'd throw big time $$ at Thuney and draft the best LT out there. Hell, I'd expend capital to get the kid from Oregon.

I'd move Jonah to RT or RG. Say RT for now.

OT: Sewell, J. Williams
G: Thuney, XSF

I'd draft or sign at least 1 more lineman, probably 2.

DE, WR (with speed), and LB are the other needs. If Sewell is gone by the time we draft, then take Chase/Parsons/best DE and spend for a FA OT as well.

In that scenario, I am paying Thuney and an OT the money I am paying AJ & Dunlap.

(10-18-2020, 02:03 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Look at what Claypool is doing in Pittsburgh (I liked him more than Higgins, along with the dude from USC).

Point is, you can get a stud WR late second in most drafts. If the line is good and the QB is good.

OL should be the #1 and #2 priority. I could give two craps about over/under 30. Burrow needs protected ASAP. I'd throw big time $$ at Thuney and draft the best LT out there. Hell, I'd expend capital to get the kid from Oregon.

I'd move Jonah to RT or RG. Say RT for now.

OT: Sewell, J. Williams
G: Thuney, XSF

I'd draft or sign at least 1 more lineman, probably 2.

DE, WR (with speed), and LB are the other needs. If Sewell is gone by the time we draft, then take Chase/Parsons/best DE and spend for a FA OT as well.

In that scenario, I am paying Thuney and an OT the money I am paying AJ & Dunlap.

Yeah I'm disgusted by the most blatent sin of getting a young star beaten David Carr style out there up until this past Sunday.  I still want Thuney and hope for Sewell and anything beyond that is fine.  I have no issues throwing high capital (money and picks) to finally fix this line since.  I'd go as far as to say fix the line at the cost of the defense even.  Give Burrow what he needs and hope for the best in a shootout.  

(10-20-2020, 08:55 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: A pass rushing DT needs to be pretty high on that list. If we keep Lawson and still have Hubbard, then DT is a higher need than DE.

Especially with the way Geno looks right now...