Last week Darius Phillips had his best game as a Bengal playing primary in the slot. I know Alexander was back this week but why change what was working? Also why did we let 40 year old Phillip Rivers put a tent up in the pocket with a 3 man rush. The guy can't move so are game plan was to make him as comfortable as he can be. Considering with 8 defenders couldn't cover 5 receivers might as well just blitz them. Sad sad performance. I also loved the offensive play when they brought Fred Johnson in motion. Love this coaching staff.

(10-19-2020, 09:38 AM)Jhowdy54 Wrote: Last week Darius Phillips had his best game as a Bengal playing primary in the slot.  I know Alexander was back this week but why change what was working?  Also why did we let 40 year old Phillip Rivers put a tent up in the pocket with a 3 man rush.  The guy can't move so are game plan was to make him as comfortable as he can be.  Considering with 8 defenders couldn't cover 5 receivers might as well just blitz them.  Sad sad performance.   I also loved the offensive play when they brought Fred Johnson in motion.  Love this coaching staff.

Phillips was always projected to be a slot CB coming out of the NFL. It suits his skill set best.
The Bengals will have to make a choice whether they want Alexander or Phillips at slot CB beyond this year, as Alexander is set to become a FA after this year. If he is re-signed, it could mean Phillips leaves.

They did end up putting Sims out there at outside CB, but he was getting beat too. The problem is they only really get good play from WJ3 and the slot CB.

Don't be surprised if the Bengals go CB early in the draft, even if WJ3 is re-signed. 

(10-19-2020, 09:38 AM)Jhowdy54 Wrote: Last week Darius Phillips had his best game as a Bengal playing primary in the slot.  I know Alexander was back this week but why change what was working?  Also why did we let 40 year old Phillip Rivers put a tent up in the pocket with a 3 man rush.  The guy can't move so are game plan was to make him as comfortable as he can be.  Considering with 8 defenders couldn't cover 5 receivers might as well just blitz them.  Sad sad performance.   I also loved the offensive play when they brought Fred Johnson in motion.  Love this coaching staff.

That's a giant part of the problem ! When an opposing QB can take a sip of coffee, light his cigarette, and put down his book before surveying the field for an open guy........... 

(10-19-2020, 10:03 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Phillips was always projected to be a slot CB coming out of the NFL. It suits his skill set best.
The Bengals will have to make a choice whether they want Alexander or Phillips at slot CB beyond this year, as Alexander is set to become a FA after this year. If he is re-signed, it could mean Phillips leaves.

They did end up putting Sims out there at outside CB, but he was getting beat too. The problem is they only really get good play from WJ3 and the slot CB.

Don't be surprised if the Bengals go CB early in the draft, even if WJ3 is re-signed. 

No way:  Trenches.  They still have Trey Waynes.  

(10-19-2020, 11:05 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: No way:  Trenches.  They still have Trey Waynes.  

They would do well in the upcoming draft to do away with the BPA scenario and draft no one except Offensive linemen and Defensive ends.

(10-19-2020, 11:09 AM)Sled21 Wrote: They would do well in the upcoming draft to do away with the BPA scenario and draft no one except Offensive linemen and Defensive ends.

Need:

2 Guards
1 OT
2 DT
1 DE

That is six players.  Free agency or draft, they absolutely must be addressed.  If you think you have one of those in Adeniji, fine.  Let him play and find out.  

They also really need a speed merchant at WR, but honestly, I think you can find a smaller school guy with blazing speed to be the vertical threat.  I don't want a single pick before round 5 to be used for ANYTHING but offensive line and defensive line.  

(10-19-2020, 11:16 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Need:

2 Guards
1 OT
2 DT
1 DE

That is six players.  Free agency or draft, they absolutely must be addressed.  If you think you have one of those in Adeniji, fine.  Let him play and find out.  

They also really need a speed merchant at WR, but honestly, I think you can find a smaller school guy with blazing speed to be the vertical threat.  I don't want a single pick before round 5 to be used for ANYTHING but offensive line and defensive line.  

This! This is spot on!!

(10-19-2020, 11:05 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: No way:  Trenches.  They still have Trey Waynes.  

We're seeing what it looks like without him in there, and we won't know what he'll play like once he's back from injury.
The Bengals (at least old Bengals) are known for stacking CB depth, so I wouldn't be surprised.

With that said, I would prefer them to go OL/DL and get a cheaper veteran and/or Day 2 CB rather than spend a 1st round pick on CB.

I wonder if they would try Alexander on the outside and have him and Phillips on the field at the same time. Phillips seems to get lost when he has too space to cover, so he either needs to only play in man or in the slot. Phiilips in the slot is our best pass rusher this year.

(10-19-2020, 11:16 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Need:

2 Guards
1 OT
2 DT
1 DE

That is six players.  Free agency or draft, they absolutely must be addressed.  If you think you have one of those in Adeniji, fine.  Let him play and find out.  

They also really need a speed merchant at WR, but honestly, I think you can find a smaller school guy with blazing speed to be the vertical threat.  I don't want a single pick before round 5 to be used for ANYTHING but offensive line and defensive line.  

Would you cut/trade Dunlap and/or Atkins to free up cap to help address these positions?

They only are expected to have ~$20-30 mill to use on FAs given they need to reserve some for draft and injuries.
A good portion of that might get eaten up on internal FAs (if they choose to sign).

(10-19-2020, 11:36 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Would you cut/trade Dunlap and/or Atkins to free up cap to help address these positions?

They only are expected to have ~$20-30 mill to use on FAs given they need to reserve some for draft and injuries.
A good portion of that might get eaten up on internal FAs (if they choose to sign).

Dunlap, absolutely.  I really have nothing to base Atkins on at this time, but if he is basically the invisible man, yes.  With Green, Ross, and maybe Shawn Williams' money off the books, they should have plenty to sign WJIII, and I think the best use of FA dollars would be Guard, and I would target Thuney, coming off a year on the franchise tag.  He is just 28 years old and consistently one of the best guards in the league.  I would also love to know WTF they have been teaching their offensive linemen out there as they ALWAYS seem to have a great one.  

What I do NOT want to spend FA dollars on:  

a WR
an OT (would cost way too much and I think we draft an OT)
a DE (again, overpaid for even solid production)
a TE (we don't use them anyways, at least not as weapons)

(10-19-2020, 11:16 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Need:

2 Guards
1 OT
2 DT
1 DE

That is six players.  Free agency or draft, they absolutely must be addressed.  If you think you have one of those in Adeniji, fine.  Let him play and find out.  

They also really need a speed merchant at WR, but honestly, I think you can find a smaller school guy with blazing speed to be the vertical threat.  I don't want a single pick before round 5 to be used for ANYTHING but offensive line and defensive line.  

Fully agree

(10-19-2020, 02:00 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Dunlap, absolutely.  I really have nothing to base Atkins on at this time, but if he is basically the invisible man, yes.  With Green, Ross, and maybe Shawn Williams' money off the books, they should have plenty to sign WJIII, and I think the best use of FA dollars would be Guard, and I would target Thuney, coming off a year on the franchise tag.  He is just 28 years old and consistently one of the best guards in the league.  I would also love to know WTF they have been teaching their offensive linemen out there as they ALWAYS seem to have a great one.  

What I do NOT want to spend FA dollars on:  

a WR
an OT (would cost way too much and I think we draft an OT)
a DE (again, overpaid for even solid production)
a TE (we don't use them anyways, at least not as weapons)

As I mentioned, they only have between $20-30 mill to work with for all FAs, including their own.
They are estimated to have $31.5 mill cap space for 2021 but will likely reserve about $11 mill for draft picks + injuries.
They have $8 mill that they can roll over into 2021, which they likely will do.

The Bengals have 26 guys set to hit FA this coming offseason.

I would expect WJ3 will command $14+ mill himself given the Bengals gave that to Trae Waynes.
Lawson, depending on how he does by year's end, could get $8+ mill.
Their entire ST unit (Bullock, Huber, Harris) are all set to hit FA, and collectively made nearly $6 mill this year alone.
They also probably will want to retain Brandon Wilson, who made $2.1 mill this year and likely will be seeking more than that.

So the Bengals could easily eat up their entire cap with just their own internal FAs that they want to re-sign.

The top 5 OGs in the league make $13+ mill a year, which is in the same realm as a Top 10 OT. And Thuney is going to get paid as a Top 5 OG.
So if the Bengals want Thuney, they probably have to let WJ3 (and Lawson?) walk or let a high-priced veteran go to free up more cap.

(10-19-2020, 11:16 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Need:

2 Guards
1 OT
2 DT
1 DE

That is six players.  Free agency or draft, they absolutely must be addressed.  If you think you have one of those in Adeniji, fine.  Let him play and find out.  

They also really need a speed merchant at WR, but honestly, I think you can find a smaller school guy with blazing speed to be the vertical threat.  I don't want a single pick before round 5 to be used for ANYTHING but offensive line and defensive line.  

Don't think 2 DTs is a must. Reader and maybe Wren will return from injury and Tupou from opting out. Obviously depends what they do with Geno. DE is probably a bigger need as they are likely to lose at least one if not both of Dunlap and Lawson.

I think a 2nd OT is more important as well. We saw what happened last year when we had no depth (or competition) on the line. Another injury to Jonah and who plays LT? The O-line should be addressed in part in free agency though. We really don't want too many rookies out there protecting Burrow.

CB is a big need unless they get WJIII re-signed but even then they need depth. Safety is also potentially a need. Shawn Williams is a FA and moving on is a chance to get younger and cheaper.

A speedy mid-round or FA receiver is a must and a mid-round TE too wouldn't go amiss either. A late round RB makes sense too.

Basically lots of holes. They need to find some more XSF type FAs for depth and Alexander type one year prove it deals to tie us over until 2022 draft.

(10-19-2020, 02:33 PM)ochocincos Wrote: As I mentioned, they only have between $20-30 mill to work with for all FAs, including their own.
They are estimated to have $31.5 mill cap space for 2021 but will likely reserve about $11 mill for draft picks + injuries.
They have $8 mill that they can roll over into 2021, which they likely will do.

The Bengals have 26 guys set to hit FA this coming offseason.

I would expect WJ3 will command $14+ mill himself given the Bengals gave that to Trae Waynes.
Lawson, depending on how he does by year's end, could get $8+ mill.
Their entire ST unit (Bullock, Huber, Harris) are all set to hit FA, and collectively made nearly $6 mill this year alone.
They also probably will want to retain Brandon Wilson, who made $2.1 mill this year and likely will be seeking more than that.

So the Bengals could easily eat up their entire cap with just their own internal FAs that they want to re-sign.

The top 5 OGs in the league make $13+ mill a year, which is in the same realm as a Top 10 OT. And Thuney is going to get paid as a Top 5 OG.
So if the Bengals want Thuney, they probably have to let WJ3 (and Lawson?) walk or let a high-priced veteran go to free up more cap.

I am far from a cap=ologist and don't spend the time analysing it that you have here, but I can't help but think you are missing something somewhere.  Burrow's money is a fraction of what we paid Dalton and when you take Green, Ross, and possibly others like Dunlap, Atkins, Williams, and Gio's money off the table I would think you would be able to find a way to sign WJIII, Lawson, and a FA like Thuney.  

(10-20-2020, 09:31 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I am far from a cap=ologist and don't spend the time analysing it that you have here, but I can't help but think you are missing something somewhere.  Burrow's money is a fraction of what we paid Dalton and when you take Green, Ross, and possibly others like Dunlap, Atkins, Williams, and Gio's money off the table I would think you would be able to find a way to sign WJIII, Lawson, and a FA like Thuney.  

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/cap/2021/

When Dalton was taken off the books, that was before the rookies started signing. They wouldn't have been able to sign all rookies and keep Dalton at the salary he was supposed to make.

Don't forget they also signed Mixon to an extension and signed big contracts to Waynes and Reader.
Waynes and Reader are eating up $20 mill of this year's cap. Mixon is consuming $4.3 mill.
Next year, those 3 take up $40.2 mill alone.

The last thing worth noting is the cap is actually expected to go down next year, which is why the Bengals (and the rest of the teams) are expected to not have as much to work with.

About the only way they could re-sign Lawson and WJ3 while also signing a FA like Thuney is to cut Dunlap and/or Atkins. They have more than just Lawson and WJ3 to re-sign too. Brandon Wilson, Bullock, Huber, and Harris are all set to be FAs. All of them combined could cost ~$8-10 mill. They cost just over $8 mill this year. I would imagine not all would re-sign though, so the Bengals might address some of the ST needs on Day 3 of the draft.

(10-20-2020, 10:25 AM)ochocincos Wrote: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/cap/2021/

When Dalton was taken off the books, that was before the rookies started signing. They wouldn't have been able to sign all rookies and keep Dalton at the salary he was supposed to make.

Don't forget they also signed Mixon to an extension and signed big contracts to Waynes and Reader.
Waynes and Reader are eating up $20 mill of this year's cap. Mixon is consuming $4.3 mill.
Next year, those 3 take up $40.2 mill alone.

The last thing worth noting is the cap is actually expected to go down next year, which is why the Bengals (and the rest of the teams) are expected to not have as much to work with.

About the only way they could re-sign Lawson and WJ3 while also signing a FA like Thuney is to cut Dunlap and/or Atkins. They have more than just Lawson and WJ3 to re-sign too. Brandon Wilson, Bullock, Huber, and Harris are all set to be FAs. All of them combined could cost ~$8-10 mill. They cost just over $8 mill this year. I would imagine not all would re-sign though, so the Bengals might address some of the ST needs on Day 3 of the draft.

This is where the communication gap originated.  I said that Dunlap and Atkins would probably be gone.  Right now, the team is 1000% better with Thuney at RG instead of those two on our defense.  

(10-20-2020, 10:25 AM)ochocincos Wrote: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/cap/2021/

When Dalton was taken off the books, that was before the rookies started signing. They wouldn't have been able to sign all rookies and keep Dalton at the salary he was supposed to make.

Don't forget they also signed Mixon to an extension and signed big contracts to Waynes and Reader.
Waynes and Reader are eating up $20 mill of this year's cap. Mixon is consuming $4.3 mill.
Next year, those 3 take up $40.2 mill alone.

The last thing worth noting is the cap is actually expected to go down next year, which is why the Bengals (and the rest of the teams) are expected to not have as much to work with.

About the only way they could re-sign Lawson and WJ3 while also signing a FA like Thuney is to cut Dunlap and/or Atkins. They have more than just Lawson and WJ3 to re-sign too. Brandon Wilson, Bullock, Huber, and Harris are all set to be FAs. All of them combined could cost ~$8-10 mill. They cost just over $8 mill this year. I would imagine not all would re-sign though, so the Bengals might address some of the ST needs on Day 3 of the draft.

Not re-signing AJ, Ross, Shawn Williams, Alexander and Erickson saves $34m, although much of that ($20m+?) will be taken up with rises that are due.

Alternatives cuts to Geno and/or Carlos would be Hart, Uzomah, Gio and Price but it is likely at least one of the two defensive stalwarts won't be back next year. Cutting or trading Dunlop and using that money on Lawson seems an obvious move, as does cutting Hart and Price and using that money in FA on the O-line.

But that opens up more needs in the draft: DE, S, CB on top of the existing ones.

(10-20-2020, 11:11 AM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: Not re-signing AJ, Ross, Shawn Williams, Alexander and Erickson saves $34m, although much of that ($20m+?) will be taken up with rises that are due.

Alternatives cuts to Geno and/or Carlos would be Hart, Uzomah, Gio and Price but it is likely at least one of the two defensive stalwarts won't be back next year. Cutting or trading Dunlop and using that money on Lawson seems an obvious move, as does cutting Hart and Price and using that money in FA on the O-line.

But that opens up more needs in the draft: DE, S, CB on top of the existing ones.

The page already reflects the 2021 cap without those guys in there, as they are not signed for 2021. They do have the updated cap hits for Waynes, Reader, and Mixon in there, which takes up a good chunk ($40 mill).

While I don't like Hart at OT, the following positions are all in more dire need of upgrades unfortunately:
- OG (1-2 depending on how XSF comes back)
- DE (1)
- DT (1)


One could also say LB, as Bynes is set to become a FA and none of the LBs are playing well in run defense. But given how young Pratt, Wilson, and ADG are, they probably won't prioritize new upgrades at LB just yet.

EDIT - You mention moving on from Uzomah, but I'm not sure I would. I trust him as a receiver more than I do Sample. Uzomah put up 87 yards in 2 games (43.5 YPG). Sample, while he has had two weeks of 40+ yards, he's had 4 games with 22 yards or less. In those games, he only had 2 targets or less each game. We'll see how consistent he becomes by the end of this year, but I'm not ready to trust Sample as the TE1 yet for next year.