(10-23-2020, 11:17 PM)lone bengal Wrote: Agree makes no sense to resign him. Even though we spent big money on defense looking at are depth next year on D is scary. We basically have Hubbard at DE, Lawson's a free agent and Dunlap should be gone. DT we got Reader coming back from injury , Geno likely gone, an unproven Wren and maybe Tupou. Outside of Wayne we have no corners under contract with Alexander and Jackson being free agents. We still have to sign Bates long term. We have a lot of work to do and that's not even including the O-line. 

Not only do the Bengals need to worry about WJ3 and Lawson this offseason, but Hubbard, Bates, and Phillips by next offseason.
While I don't like Phillips on the outside, I think he's a good slot CB.

(10-23-2020, 11:39 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Not only do the Bengals need to worry about WJ3 and Lawson this offseason, but Hubbard, Bates, and Phillips by next offseason.
While I don't like Phillips on the outside, I think he's a good slot CB.

I like Lawson and WJ3 but I feel like both are going to get overpaid big time in free agency. I'm still not sure if WJ3 is a number one corner or if Lawson can be a full time DE. Hopefully we can resign Bates and Hubbard before they hit the market. 

(10-23-2020, 11:46 PM)lone bengal Wrote: I like Lawson and WJ3 but I feel like both are going to get overpaid big time in free agency. I'm still not sure if WJ3 is a number one corner and if Lawson can be a full time DE. Hopefully we can resign Bates and Hubbard before they hit the market. 

Depends on your definition of #1 corner. Technically, a Top 32 CB is worthy of being a #1 CB on a team. WJ3 falls around middle of the pack in terms of #1 CBs right now.

Waynes IMO wasn't worth being paid as the 9th highest CB, but here we are.
WJ3 will command $14 mill from someone, and IMO he's better than Waynes.

Lawson has had 3+ years to show he's deserving of being a full-time DE, but he hasn't quite yet. Depending on how the rest of this year pans out, someone may pay him to be one. It may be a mistake, it may work out.
Personally, I feel he's about an 8-10 sack average guy if he stays healthy all year, which is worth about $12-14 mill a year.
But without the multiple years of back-to-back production, maybe he can be had for $10 mill a year?
I honestly don't know. When I think I may have an idea on market value, I see some guys get way over that and some guys get way under.

(10-24-2020, 12:00 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Depends on your definition of #1 corner. Technically, a Top 32 CB is worthy of being a #1 CB on a team. WJ3 falls around middle of the pack in terms of #1 CBs right now.

Waynes IMO wasn't worth being paid as the 9th highest CB, but here we are.
WJ3 will command $14 mill from someone, and IMO he's better than Waynes.

Lawson has had 3+ years to show he's deserving of being a full-time DE, but he hasn't quite yet. Depending on how the rest of this year pans out, someone may pay him to be one. It may be a mistake, it may work out.
Personally, I feel he's about an 8-10 sack average guy if he stays healthy all year, which is worth about $12-14 mill a year.
But without the multiple years of back-to-back production, maybe he can be had for $10 mill a year?
I honestly don't know. When I think I may have an idea on market value, I see some guys get way over that and some guys get way under.

I like that the Bengals were aggressive in free agency but like you said I thought they overpaid for Wayne’s too. Not sure if I want to over pay for WJ3 and just have an ok secondary with Bates still needing a deal. But the alternative of having no WJ3 is scary. Feel like a 3-4 team could find Lawson more appealing.

(10-23-2020, 11:24 PM)lone bengal Wrote: Boyd plays the game hard and is very talented , I'm glad he's a Bengal. I remember being pissed that Laquan Treadwell and Josh Doctson got picked before the Bengals drafted and they both ended up sucking lol. Besides Michael Thomas I think Boyd was the best WR in that draft class.  Corey Coleman was a bust and Will Fuller is always hurt and has a lot of drops.

fresh honesty is good. some tend to just focus on the pick taken and not reflect back on circumstances and performance of others picked around them.  I also like Josh Doctson myself

(10-23-2020, 11:17 PM)lone bengal Wrote: Agree makes no sense to resign him. Even though we spent big money on defense looking at are depth next year on D is scary. We basically have Hubbard at DE, Lawson's a free agent and Dunlap should be gone. DT we got Reader coming back from injury , Geno likely gone, an unproven Wren and maybe Tupou. Outside of Wayne we have no corners under contract with Alexander and Jackson being free agents. We still have to sign Bates long term. We have a lot of work to do and that's not even including the O-line. 

It took me a few games but I have come around to this is a total rebuild, and it is going to take time to see if we can turn it around.  There are two sides of the ball, you can;t forget either side, have to balance our picks and FA signings.  Long term approach over short term.  I would try to get picks for our older players best we can.. load up in picks and try to move around next year in the draft to add value to our picks.  As for FA I am staying away from $$ signings that are short term 1/2 years.. they are not worth it, we need to find those middle FA signings of players coming out of 1st contract that we can secure for 3/4 years, then after a couple years maybe then we go for a bigger FA if our team has turned the corner and we need one piece or two to be competitive. 

(10-23-2020, 03:15 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: OBJ has to be one of the most overrated players in recent history.

Go ahead and look at his numbers.  Guy hasn't had an elite season, or anything close to it, in years.

Here's his totals over the last 4 years: (For 2020 I'm using current projections):

2017 - 25 Rec, 302 Yards, 3 TD's
2018 - 77 Res, 1,052 Yards, 6 TD's
2019 - 74 Rec, 1,035 Yards, 4 TD's
2020 - 61 Rec, 851 Yards, 8 TD's

Those numbers aren't that good. At all.  Yet the guy managed to sign an 18 mil dollar a year contract.  He still accounts for 15 mil in cap space, and that's with the Giants eating his 40 million bonus, and keeping in on their books.

And this is leaving out the biggest legitimate gripe.  Not only is he incredibly overrated as a player, he's a terrible teammate.  Awful for a locker room, and all around garbage human being.

Then consider the fact that everywhere he's played, he's played for losers.  Nowhere he's been has even been remotely close to being a legitimate contender.

Say what you will about guys like TO, or Antonio Brown, or Michael Irvin.  Those guys still put up elite level numbers, and they played for decent teams.

This guy?  He's a bum.  He's a cautionary tale about letting one highlight and the media looking to create superstars into fooling everyone into thinking this guy is so damn special.  But he's not.  Not even close.

Sorry for the OT rant.  I really dislike this dude.  And I wanted to rip on him because he all around sucks.

I agree, OBJ is a piece of crap of a person but he was considered a star based on his first 3 years in the league.

His first 3 he averaged almost 1400 yards and had double digit touchdowns all three years. Also his catch 70% catch percentage his rookie year is insane. If you compare his first 3 years to AJs, Odell was the better player and AJ was considered a star and top WR in the league after his first 3 as well.