(10-24-2020, 01:53 PM)jj22 Wrote: I think we can safely say coaches need to be held accountable while saying a player shouldn't give the defensive gameplan away to the opponent the night before the game.

Showing a depth chart of one position does not give away a game plan. Besides the game plans are shit anyways.

(10-24-2020, 01:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Whatever happened to the screams to hold people accountable?

That does not apply to coaches?

I don't hold coaches accountable?  Me?

Look, there's two ways you can look at this entire Carlos situation.  I would describe yours as option A, and mine as option B.

A.) Carlos Dunlap is acting out because he was benched. (The coaches aren't playing their best players)

B.) Carlos Dunlap is benched because he was acting out. (Poor effort, bad attitude forced the coaches hand)

These are two very different things.  Now we can all speculate which is more likely, but I think if you understand that I'm looking at like option B then you can understand it has nothing to do with me not holding the coaches accountable.

To each their own, I do not believe the reason Carlos is not playing is simply because the coaches are idiots.  I believe what's really going in is that his effort has been poor, and there's a lot going on behind the scenes.

(10-24-2020, 01:53 PM)jj22 Wrote: I think we can safely say coaches need to be held accountable while saying a player shouldn't give the defensive gameplan away to the opponent the night before the game.

He did not give away anything.  Teams have depth charts posted all over the place.

Plus, you really think the Browns are going to spend a lot of time changing their game plan to account for Margus Hunt being 2nd team DE?  

(10-24-2020, 01:54 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Showing a depth chart of one position does not give away a game plan. Besides the game plans are shit anyways.

Yes it does. And if you think it's fine to show the defensive line rotation for a specific game the night before the game which they are "experimenting" with, then you probably shouldn't criticize ZT given you'd accept that from players. 

(10-24-2020, 01:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: He did not give away anything.  Teams have depth charts posted all over the place.

Plus, you really think the Browns are going to spend a lot of time changing their game plan to account for Margus Hunt being 2nd team DE?  

It wasn't the depth chart, it was the specific rotation for that game. 

You guys act like these game plan rotations are posted all the time. 

And heck yea they will change knowing Hunt and Bledsoe will be in more than Dunlap. Who wouldn't? Probably go pass heavy now. These are professionals who know how to use any info they may get from an opponent. Anything.

If we can spot from the planned game rotation they are going with a run heavy defense, then surely Cleveland can.

(10-24-2020, 01:44 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: So I just read on Ben Baby's twitter that "coward" is an inside joke that's been in the locker room since Brandon Lafell was here in '16.

Take that as you will.

It looked like a joke to me... The lol emoji isn't my go too when levying personal attacks.

(10-24-2020, 01:56 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: To each their own, I do not believe the reason Carlos is not playing is simply because the coaches are idiots.  I believe what's really going in is that his effort has been poor, and there's a lot going on behind the scenes.

These are the same coaches who hyped Damion Willis as one of our top 3 WRs and started him the first two games of last year.

These are the coaches who thought Ryan Finley would give us a better chance of winning than Dalton.  (If it was about "evaluation" then they would have never returned to Dalton.  They would have given Finley more starts or tried out Dolegala).

I just don't have as much confidence in this coaching staff's ability to evaluate talent as you do.

(10-24-2020, 02:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: These are the same coaches who hyped Damion Willis as one of our top 3 WRs and started him the first two games of last year.

These are the coaches who thought Ryan Finley would give us a better chance of winning than Dalton.  (If it was about "evaluation" then they would have never returned to Dalton.  They would have given Finley more starts or tried out Dolegala).

I just don't have as much confidence in this coaching staff's ability to evaluate talent as you do.

They went back to Dalton because Finley played like poo during 3 very winnable games. Zac was gonna lose the locker room last year if he didn't go back, and I wouldn't be shocked if Mike Brown intervened.

(10-24-2020, 01:58 PM)jj22 Wrote: Yes it does. And if you think it's fine to show the defensive line rotation for a specific game the night before the game which they are "experimenting" with, then you probably shouldn't criticize ZT given you'd accept that from players. 

So which formations and downs will this rotation be used in if he gave away the game plan?

(10-24-2020, 02:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: These are the same coaches who hyped Damion Willis as one of our top 3 WRs and started him the first two games of last year.

These are the coaches who thought Ryan Finley would give us a better chance of winning than Dalton.  (If it was about "evaluation" then they would have never returned to Dalton.  They would have given Finley more starts or tried out Dolegala).

I just don't have as much confidence in this coaching staff's ability to evaluate talent as you do.

Which is fine, but you can't post game plan notes on social media. That regardless of coaching can't be what we want from Bengals players. And shouldn't be defended by fans, regardless of questions about the coaches.

(10-24-2020, 02:07 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: So which formations and downs will this rotation be used in if he gave away the game plan?

They will be used on the downs when Kareem Hunt is running for 125 and 2 TDs on them tomorrow... Which was gonna happen anyway.

He keeps posting employee #96. That is correct Carlos. You are employee #96. This is a business and you are an employee and nothing more. To many guys have got the idea over the last decade that they are more to the team than an employee.

(10-24-2020, 02:07 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: So which formations and downs will this rotation be used in if he gave away the game plan?

Clearly you see who will start. And clearly you see you won't have to worry about one of the better pass rushers and the dlinemen you fear batting balls down until you've gone through the gauntlet which is 4 deep. 

So why not pass it all around the field. None of them accept Lawson is a pass rush threat. 

You can't spot that? Knowing what you know of the players who will be playing first in the rotation?

If you can't, I'm sure opposing coaches who do this for a living with lesser hints of a defense line rotation can.

Carlos Dunlap is playing OLB this year and he does not look good standing up. Dunlap is a 3 point stance 43 end and is having issues with leverage standing up in run defense.

I can understand why the coaches decided to go with Carl Lawson and Sam Hubbard at OLB, but after Hubbard went down and they decided to go with Amani Bledsoe screams Dunlap is a problem behind close doors at the moment.

(10-24-2020, 02:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: These are the coaches who thought Ryan Finley would give us a better chance of winning than Dalton.  (If it was about "evaluation" then they would have never returned to Dalton.  They would have given Finley more starts or tried out Dolegala).

You keep saying this as if it's a fact.

Any evaluation would have been clearly over by that point.  He played so poorly that I see no reason why anyone would need any more games to properly evaluate him.

The fact of the matter is, neither I nor you know exactly what all went into that decision.  You can't just keep going around and stating they played Finley only because they thought he was better, and represent it as pure fact.

(10-24-2020, 02:11 PM)jj22 Wrote: Clearly you see who will start. And clearly you see you won't have to worry about one of the better pass rushers and the dlinemen you fear batting balls down until you've gone through the gauntlet which is 4 deep. 

So why not pass it all around the field. None of them accept Lawson is a pass rush threat. 

You can't spot that? Knowing what you know of the players who will be playing first in the rotation?

If you can't, I'm sure opposing coaches who do this for a living with lesser hints of a defense line rotation can.

Yeah those 0 sacks scream better pass rusher. 

(10-24-2020, 02:07 PM)jj22 Wrote: Which is fine, but you can't post game plan notes on social media. That regardless of coaching can't be what we want from Bengals players. And shouldn't be defended by fans, regardless of questions about the coaches.

I agree. The depth chart posted to team's website don't even come from the coaches. They're scrubbed together by team media personnel. In fact, some other team's websites, if you ever look at them, actually say that. 

I didn't have time to read this entire thread so maybe this has been pointed out already, but this may well qualify as conduct detrimental to the team, meaning he can be cut and lose his guaranteed money. We may or may not get an offer on the trade market for him - and if we do, like I assume everybody else here, I think we should take it. But it's entirely possible we don't get offered squat. This post of his can be a good thing. We can actually cut him and save more cap $ than we would in a trade, and roll that over for next year. 

Either way, I don't see Carlos in stripes beyond the bye week. 

(10-24-2020, 02:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I just don't have as much confidence in this coaching staff's ability to evaluate talent as you do.

Shirley, you're not serious?

(10-24-2020, 02:11 PM)jj22 Wrote: Clearly you see who will start. And clearly you see you won't have to worry about one of the better pass rushers and the dlinemen you fear batting balls down until you've gone through the gauntlet which is 4 deep. 

So why not pass it all around the field. None of them accept Lawson is a pass rush threat. 

You can't spot that? Knowing what you know of the players who will be playing first in the rotation?

If it’s a rotation then who cares who starts? They will all be on the field at one time or another. FYI, Dunlap is not one of the better pass rushers this year. Ranks 71 out of 79 DE’s on pass rush win rate.

This team hasn’t had a pass rush threat all year outside of Phillips blitzing from the slot. Teams will run or throw on us at will depending on their game plan, not ours.

(10-24-2020, 02:13 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: You keep saying this as if it's a fact.

Any evaluation would have been clearly over by that point.  He played so poorly that I see no reason why anyone would need any more games to properly evaluate him.

The fact of the matter is, neither I nor you know exactly what all went into that decision.  You can't just keep going around as stating the played Finley only because they thought he was better, and represent it as pure fact.

Didn't Zac say that it would take 50 games to evaluate Finley after that 3rd game?... Maybe even with a hint of smugness?