(10-24-2020, 07:50 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The 90's started off with a laughable season and Sam basically telling the fans to go F themselves. Then Paul passed away and we got Mikey Boy. On top of that the Shula /Akili / Klingler. As bad as the last couple years have been, it's nowhere near what that time period was...at not yet.

Agree with every part of this. We are nowhere near the 90's shitshow. I used to refer to every Sunday as "Black Sunday" because those were dark times and never saw a way out. 

(10-24-2020, 10:13 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: That's the thing though brother. The fact that Carlos has been almost invisible, as part of a unit that has overall sucked, as part of a defense that isn't all that good...doesn't add up to 'I should be guaranteed a starting job'...at least, IMO.

Right,

I don’t care much for this coaching staff and I’m not defending them at all. It’s a bad situation all the way around. But as the old saying goes two wrongs don’t make a right.

(10-24-2020, 10:11 PM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: I've heard similar things. Ironically, we hold value so high and then the player leaves us, giving us no value at all. Dunlap is going to barely play for us, so inefficiently earning his cap space. At that point, you sell off for what you can get. The benefit is having a potential young player who wants to play and the reduction in cap. Let's face it, Dunlap isn't doing much but be a significant deficit to cap. 

I've seen Dunlap's situation before. I've been on both ends (not on a pro level, obviously). I'm personally not a fan of how he's handled it, but we do not know all the details. Speaking as we do, removes a perspective and isn't entirely fair. What we do know is he is unhappy and he ranks as another veteran to be in such position.

Something is going on and I don't feel Dunlap represents the problem, but merely a part. 

Yep they’re probably asking a 1st for AJ and 2nd for Geno and Carlos, 3rd for Ross. Nobody is gonna give that for let’s face it players whose production the last seasons + just isn’t all that.

(10-24-2020, 10:13 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: That's the thing though brother. The fact that Carlos has been almost invisible, as part of a unit that has overall sucked, as part of a defense that isn't all that good...doesn't add up to 'I should be guaranteed a starting job'...at least, IMO.

This DC and his system is perhaps the worst one that I have witnessed in all my years Bengal. It should be getting better with time and familiarity but it isn't. I seriously doubt that Lou is ever going to be successful in that role. His track record speaks volumes.

I think our veteran defender's see the same thing. Los and Geno are now staring down the later part of their careers and they would like an opportunity to compete for a ring. They understand that it's not very likely to happen here. Los wants out of here and I don't blame him.

I think that's why he is showing his displeasure publicly. Worked for CP9.

(10-24-2020, 10:39 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: This DC and his system is perhaps the worst one that I have witnessed in all my years Bengal. It should be getting better with time and familiarity but it isn't. I seriously doubt that Lou is ever going to be successful in that role. His track record speaks volumes.

I think our veteran defender's see the same thing. Los and Geno are now staring down the later part of their careers and they would like an opportunity to compete for a ring. They understand that it's not very likely to happen here. Los wants out of here and I don't blame him.

I think that's why he is showing his displeasure publicly. Worked for CP9.

Teryl Austin was far worse.

As for Carson? He was a legit starting QB, who actually had real value. Dunlap does not.

(10-24-2020, 10:23 PM)jason Wrote: I get that aspect... But behind Margus Hunt? I think I saw him watching the game at a bar last week. Fresh off the street? This is smelling like a ***** fight at this point... And I've said it over and over. Carlos forgot how to play between December and now? What's happened to Vonn Bell upon arrival?

Joe Mixon chiming in on the latest post says a lot to me too. I think Carlos is closer to the end of his career, and has less to lose by voicing his frustration than some of the other guys, and they're even chirping too. When guys are acting outta character, something is wrong.

Why did Jessie Bates remember 'how to play', but Carlos forgot?

Why did something 'happen' to Bell on arrival, but not to Reader?

Why did rookie Higgins learn the system quickly, while veteran AJ struggled?

There's a lot of things you can criticize Zac for, but at some point, the players need to actually make plays and/or take responsibility when they don't. Personally, I don't mind players getting benched for nonproduction, especially when they're getting paid big money to make big plays...and they aren't for whatever reason.

Folks are looking at this with their hearts instead of their heads. They are backing Carlos because they hope it'll lead to Zac being shown the door....it won't.

Here's how it works: Players answer to coaches, coaches answer to owners. owners answer to each other.

We as fans like to think we have some sort of power, but we don't.

As an employee Carlos is out of line.

(10-24-2020, 10:39 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: This DC and his system is perhaps the worst one that I have witnessed in all my years Bengal. It should be getting better with time and familiarity but it isn't. I seriously doubt that Lou is ever going to be successful in that role. His track record speaks volumes.

I think our veteran defender's see the same thing. Los and Geno are now staring down the later part of their careers and they would like an opportunity to compete for a ring. They understand that it's not very likely to happen here. Los wants out of here and I don't blame him.

I think that's why he is showing his displeasure publicly. Worked for CP9.

How do people forget about Teryl Austin? Like, really, how?

(10-24-2020, 08:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Explains the reason many dislike what Carlos is doing. 

Fans don't like it because they can't get out the way players can.

Dillon didn't care what the fans thought.

Palmer didn't care.

Ocho didn't care.

Dunlap doesn't care.

All people do here is ***** and cry about the coaching and front office.  But then when a player wants out they turn on him.

I guarantee that if any of you guys were in a contract at a horrible job with an incompetent boss who you did not think was treating you fairly you would do what you had to do to get out.  You are lying if you say otherwise.

And for all of you who think Dunlap now sucks why do you care if he wants out?  If he is really so wrong then he won't damage the locker room in any way.  Why would it effect any of the other players if they all knew he was wrong?

The fact is that you really know that Dunlap has a legit beef.  That is the only reason he would be able to do any harm to the "culture" Zac is building around here.  If Zac and/or Lou weren't screwing anything up then none of the other players would pay any attention to Carlos' "whining".

Good to see quality leadership from our high priced vet...

Quit bitching and make some plays and you will get playing time.

(10-24-2020, 09:19 PM)Always a Bengal Wrote: Well that confirms we won't win another game this year.

We will, though.

We get the Football Team and the Giants, ie the two teams that might be worse than us, plus several other flawed squads in Dallas, Houston, and Miami.  I'm not saying we won't lose some of those, but it will be hard not to win a couple.

It will be enough to hose us out of a top five pick in the end.  There are a ton of shitty teams in the league right now.

(10-24-2020, 11:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Folks are looking at this with their hearts instead of their heads. They are backing Carlos because they hope it'll lead to Zac being shown the door....it won't.

Here's how it works: Players answer to coaches, coaches answer to owners. owners answer to each other.

We as fans like to think we have some sort of power, but we don't.

As an employee Carlos is out of line.

Players get paid more than coaches and play a bigger role in winning/loosing games. Coach's have the role of leaders but they are just employee's too.

(10-24-2020, 11:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Fans don't like it because they can't get out the way players can.

Dillon didn't care what the fans thought.

Palmer didn't care.

Ocho didn't care.

Dunlap doesn't care.

All people do here is ***** and cry about the coaching and front office.  But then when a player wants out they turn on him.

I guarantee that if any of you guys were in a contract at a horrible job with an incompetent boss who you did not think was treating you fairly you would do what you had to do to get out.  You are lying if you say otherwise.

And for all of you who think Dunlap now sucks why do you care if he wants out?  If he is really so wrong then he won't damage the locker room in any way.  Why would it effect any of the other players if they all knew he was wrong?

The fact is that you really know that Dunlap has a legit beef.  That is the only reason he would be able to do any harm to the "culture" Zac is building around here.  If Zac and/or Lou weren't screwing anything up then none of the other players would pay any attention to Carlos' "whining".

Well consider me a liar and I think you're selling short the character of anyone else  you call a liar. 

(10-24-2020, 11:45 PM)Weazzel80 Wrote: Players get paid more than coaches and play a bigger role in winning/loosing games. Coach's have the role of leaders but they are just employee's too.

It's why I said coaches answer to owners. 

Also not all players make more or have a bigger role in success than coaches. 

(10-24-2020, 11:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: All people do here is ***** and cry about the coaching and front office.  But then when a player wants out they turn on him.

I guarantee that if any of you guys were in a contract at a horrible job with an incompetent boss who you did not think was treating you fairly you would do what you had to do to get out.  You are lying if you say otherwise.

And for all of you who think Dunlap now sucks why do you care if he wants out?  If he is really so wrong then he won't damage the locker room in any way.  Why would it effect any of the other players if they all knew he was wrong?

The fact is that you really know that Dunlap has a legit beef.  That is the only reason he would be able to do any harm to the "culture" Zac is building around here.  If Zac and/or Lou weren't screwing anything up then none of the other players would pay any attention to Carlos' "whining".

Yep.  Even if ZT and his crew of crappy-resumed cronies magically "get it" Dunlap is going to be on his last legs as a player.  The guy has spent his entire career here and at the moment it looks like second half of his career is going to be losing seasons, ending with some truly awful 2 and whatever likely crap number of wins season in the ZT era.

When your entire career is going to be something like 10 years long and you spend half of it losing I can see why hard feelings emerge.  

Carlos the coaches are just trying to keep you fresh for later in the year when you feel like putting forth maximum effort

(10-24-2020, 11:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Folks are looking at this with their hearts instead of their heads. They are backing Carlos because they hope it'll lead to Zac being shown the door....it won't.

Here's how it works: Players answer to coaches, coaches answer to owners. owners answer to each other.

We as fans like to think we have some sort of power, but we don't.

As an employee Carlos is out of line.

Carlos's antics alone will not, so you're correct there.

However, Carlos's antics combined with other vets getting on board and a total of 3 wins in 22 games (and counting) might.  

There's not a lot that they can do to him that won't hurt the team in some way, the key one being financial and dead money.  He may be out of line, but he's got them over a barrel right now with that big 3rd contract, and he knows it.  

(10-24-2020, 08:21 PM)Synric Wrote: Some Stats.

context is important

he isn't good pic.twitter.com/LhjzbeHeRU

— Day 1 Dodgers Fan? (@_spacewaste_) October 24, 2020

Crazy Amani Bledsoe is the second best edge rusher on the team right now...

Bullshit

According to this Amani has only 2 fewer "pass rush wins" (4) than Dunlap (6) but for some reason he has 0 sacks, 0 QB hits, 0 PDs, 1 hurry, and 1 pressure while Dunlap has 2PDs, 1 sack, 3 QB hits, 4 hurries, and 6 pressures.

Maybe Zac is just looking at nextgen stats instead of game film.

(10-24-2020, 11:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Bullshit

According to this Amani has only 2 fewer "pass rush wins" (4) than Dunlap (6) but for some reason he has 0 sacks, 0 QB hits, 0 PDs, 1 hurry, and 1 pressure while Dunlap has 2PDs, 1 sack, 3 QB hits, 4 hurries, and 6 pressures.

Maybe Zac is just looking at nextgen stats instead of game film.

Zero career sacks, lol.  Yeah,  Bledsoe is a world beater.

(10-24-2020, 10:51 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Why did Jessie Bates remember 'how to play', but Carlos forgot?

Why did something 'happen' to Bell on arrival, but not to Reader?

Why did rookie Higgins learn the system quickly, while veteran AJ struggled?

There's a lot of things you can criticize Zac for, but at some point, the players need to actually make plays and/or take responsibility when they don't. Personally, I don't mind players getting benched for nonproduction, especially when they're getting paid big money to make big plays...and they aren't for whatever reason.

Honestly I didn't know a whole lot about Reader in Houston. People were excited we got him though, but quite frankly we're still giving up way too much on the ground, and I don't remember him having any sacks this year. I remember a tipped ball. In fairness, he didn't have a whole lotta time to get going here though either. I don't think it's a thing with learning the system with AJ. He missed camp, he's rusty, and he's older... Maybe frustrated too. Higgins is a stud in the making. What can I say?

I dunno... In a perfect world should Carlos be acting this way? Nope... But this isn't a perfect world. We have no leadership, and this is what happens. Just funny to me that a decade in, and the guy is now a headache. He sat behind guys that weren't on his level when he was younger... Not a peep.