To be fair, Hart was seldom left one on one with a defender. Gio or a TE was often out there getting a chip to help him, which should have been happening since week 1.

Give him a little help and apparently he can hold his own after.

This is why PFF is more an interesting tidbit than an actual evaluation tool, in my opinion.

If Burrow doesn’t scoop a shotgun snap off the ground like it’s nothing and also doesn’t recover the fumbled exchange, I highly doubt we are all talking about being too harsh on Billy Price. Instead we’d be asking why he is still employed as a backup on this team. Not saying he doesn’t deserve another chance but we really need to temper our expectations after one better than expected half of football.

You hear the phrase “he makes everyone around him better” and this seems like a good example for why Burrow is who he is. Dalton would have fallen on the ball or tried to pick it up then taken off running, probably for a loss. Then we’d complain and some would blame Dalton and some would blame the low snap and we’d be pissed off at both. Burrow scoops it up and the play is mostly forgotten and we instead talk about maybe Price being a better center than guard and maybe we had too high of expectations for our first round pick. Im actually excited for when this becomes a more common thing.

(10-27-2020, 09:22 AM)BengalsFan1986 Wrote: If Burrow doesn’t scoop a shotgun snap off the ground like it’s nothing and also doesn’t recover the fumbled exchange, I highly doubt we are all talking about being too harsh on Billy Price. Instead we’d be asking why he is still employed as a backup on this team. Not saying he doesn’t deserve another chance but we really need to temper our expectations after one better than expected half of football.

You hear the phrase “he makes everyone around him better” and this seems like a good example for why Burrow is who he is. Dalton would have fallen on the ball or tried to pick it up then taken off running, probably for a loss. Then we’d complain and some would blame Dalton and some would blame the low snap and we’d be pissed off at both. Burrow scoops it up and the play is mostly forgotten and we instead talk about maybe Price being a better center than guard and maybe we had too high of expectations for our first round pick. Im actually excited for when this becomes a more common thing.

The snaps were on Burrow, clearly.

Their timing was off; the one where, "he dropped it and made us forget about it," hit him right in the bread basket-area and he dropped it.

(10-27-2020, 09:29 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: The snaps were on Burrow, clearly.

Their timing was off; the one where, "he dropped it and made us forget about it," hit him right in the bread basket-area and he dropped it.

You’re talking about the one a dropped, I’m talking about the one that was along the ground and he picked up and threw a pass. The one he dropped was on him, the one he scooped was on Price.

(10-27-2020, 09:33 AM)BengalsFan1986 Wrote: You’re talking about the one a dropped, I’m talking about the one that was along the ground and he picked up and threw a pass. The one he dropped was on him, the one he scooped was on Price.

we're talking about the same one

It didn't skip.

(10-27-2020, 09:29 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: The snaps were on Burrow, clearly.

Their timing was off; the one where, "he dropped it and made us forget about it," hit him right in the bread basket-area and he dropped it.

One of them was definitely on Price. It was way high and Burrow had to reach up for it.

(10-27-2020, 10:04 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: One of them was definitely on Price. It was way high and Burrow had to reach up for it.

Correct, forgot about the high one! That one was indeed on Price (obviously).

(10-27-2020, 10:03 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: we're talking about the same one

It didn't skip.

Ok sure. You got it.

Every player has a good game in the NFL, all of them. PFF made this one Hart's. End result is still a loss for the team. Goal of team: to win games.

(10-26-2020, 08:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well to be fair. It would be damn near impossible to be worse. 

Remember when Hopkins was the RG?
He was not good there either (but he wasn't nearly as bad as Price at G).

I will give credit to Taylor and Turner for:
1) Putting Hopkins in his best position to succeed
2) Recognizing Hopkins is a somewhat better C than Price (at least at pass blocking).

The Bengals really need XSF back at RG. If he can solidify RG through the rest of the season, this OL may actually be competent going into next year. That also depends on MJ continuing to develop though. He had a good game against CLE, but he needs to show that level of play every week to give me confidence that LG can be solidified too.

(10-26-2020, 09:18 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: My point was, how can you grade a guy highly for a game where he required 2v1 help? If every OL had a second blocker to help him block their guys every play, wouldn't they all be amazing from a pressures allowed standpoint?

PFF is supposed to grade all OTs the same and pretty much all OTs getr help against elite pass blockers.

Personally I don't trust PFFs individual rankings at all, but you like to cite the PFF ratings you can't pick and choose which players to apply them to.

(10-26-2020, 09:18 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I 100% think other teams do the same to players like Garrett. You'd be foolish not to.

My point was, how can you grade a guy highly for a game where he required 2v1 help? If every OL had a second blocker to help him block their guys every play, wouldn't they all be amazing from a pressures allowed standpoint?

he did not have every play an extra blocker.. give him credit when credit is due.. overall this year he has been graded above average.. hell im happy he is getting better we need him to continue to play at a consistent level... 

Year to date PFF grades:

1. Su'a-Filo 75.5 (1 game)
2. Williams 74.8
3. Hart 70.6
4. Hopkins 63.1
5. Spain 60.6 (potential signing)
6. Jordan 60.1
7. Redmond 54.6
8. Price 46.2 (better at C: 60)
9. Fred Johnson 39.9

Price seems to of been playing center at a average to good level against the Browns. Besides that false start double clutch snap and the Hold, He was getting push up the middle and they were gaining alot of yards right up the gut. I'd. Like to see them Try Hopkins at guard where he was orginally and give Billy 1 more shot at center. He seems more comfortable there... Hart, as it kills me to say has really upped his play this season.. Esp the past few weeks.. Joe has had time and it shows in his stats...

(10-27-2020, 11:30 AM)fredtoast Wrote: PFF is supposed to grade all OTs the same and pretty much all OTs getr help against elite pass blockers.

Personally I don't trust PFFs individual rankings at all, but you like to cite the PFF ratings you can't pick and choose which players to apply them to.

Except when I vote them I always do so with the disclaimer that they aren't gospel or particularly trustworthy since they are a secret method that is based in personal judgement. They are an interesting talking point. 

So I can 100% pick and choose. Just like you do, but unlike you I as least have the decency to admit that PFF numbers are sketchy even when I do choose to use them.

(10-27-2020, 03:04 PM)Tony Wrote: Price seems to of been playing center at a average to good level against the Browns. Besides that false start double clutch snap and the Hold, He was getting push up the middle and they were gaining alot of yards right up the gut. I'd. Like to see them Try Hopkins at guard where he was orginally and give Billy 1 more shot at center. He seems more comfortable there... Hart, as it kills me to say has really upped his play this season.. Esp the past few weeks.. Joe has had time and it shows in his stats...

People shouldn't criticize a couple of bad snaps when a backup center comes into the game. Price and Burrow get very few reps together in practice. There's going to be a period of getting used to the switch from Hopkins. We have a problem that both Hopkins and Price are better centers than they are guards. We need to look at who is the best center (probably Hopkins right now)  and weigh it against who is the worst guard, and is the switch viable in that we may regress a little at center but improve a little at guard until XSF is back.

(10-26-2020, 08:40 PM)kalibengal Wrote: ...Honestly I dont know how PFF does these....doesn't run blocking count? 
Lets ask the owner Cris Collinsworth 

PFF has separate run blocking and pass pro ratings, then total.  

Surprised Hart got THAT high of a rating. Didn't he give up a sack to Garrett?

Also thought Price played well at Center. Adeniji seemed okay at RT from what I saw, why was he left off the list?

(10-28-2020, 07:20 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Surprised Hart got THAT high of a rating. Didn't he give up a sack to Garrett?

Also thought Price played well at Center. Adeniji seemed okay at RT from what I saw, why was he left off the list?

Not sure why Hakeem was left off, but PFF says he had 8 snaps with rating of 51.0.  Still, I think Adeniji has the highest ceiling of all the current OL players on the Bengals Roster because his technique and feet movement.