https://youtu.be/ozXcwDm6koE

This a very good youtube show on the Bengals called cut the tape. They go over every defensive play from a full view of the defensive line up, zoomed out. Watching this, it seems alot of the problem is miss communication. Alot of it there is LBs LBs screaming for the line to shift and the guys off the street just sit there. You will see Bynes and alot of the rookies out of position a ton. Wilson #55 is our best LB already. 1 other take. With our #1 and #2 starting Dbs out. It was criminally insane to play press man with Phillip's and Sims on Clevelands last TD .. It's either the players not being coached right or the coaches communication with the Defense is very bad. Maybe both. It's a good watch. I also think Alexander has been our best Db outside of WJIII and it's close with them. Alexander is a great tackler, although he did miss a huge sack that could of stopped a Cleveland scoring drive. Carl Lawson is playing better than people think too..

I'm looking forward to watching it :)

I have no problem with the Bengals pressing on the last play. Plus Phillips was in position to make a play on the Ball but the Ball went right threw his hands. What is weird is why were playing Cover 1 and not Cover 2 man?

(10-27-2020, 03:00 PM)Tony Wrote: https://youtu.be/ozXcwDm6koE

This a very good youtube show on the Bengals called cut the tape. They go over every defensive play from a full view of the defensive line up, zoomed out. Watching this, it seems alot of the problem is miss communication. Alot of it there is LBs LBs screaming for the line to shift and the guys off the street just sit there. You will see Bynes and alot of the rookies out of position a ton. Wilson #55 is our best LB already. 1 other take. With our #1 and #2 starting Dbs out. It was criminally insane to play press man with Phillip's and Sims on Clevelands last TD .. It's either the players not being coached right or the coaches communication with the Defense is very bad.  Maybe both. It's a good watch. I also think Alexander has been our best Db outside of WJIII and it's close with them. Alexander is a great tackler, although he did miss a huge sack that could of stopped a Cleveland scoring drive. Carl Lawson is playing better than people think too..

I skipped to the end because I wanted to get a feel for the guys based on their take on the last play. They seem like they are just victims of hindsight here, saying "you can't call that" and the corners "can't play that close" is revisionist and disregarding the football view of the situation. To review this, you have to think about the whole game, not just the play before where they got beat on a one-on-one jump ball. They had scored 3 times on routes to their TE's and it all happened because they didn't leverage inside help. 

This last play they are in cover 1 with Vonn Bell playing as a "robber" and Bates playing the deep center position. The outside guys are in press man with the inside guys off the snap playing outside leverage and releasing inside. The slot man and LB on the TE are playing outside leverage because Bates and Bell have inside help at two levels. Both outside guys get good jams off the line and get into phase well. The defense here is betting on the Browns doing what they had done most of the game and attacking the middle of the field or at least crossing through it where they can pick up help as they cross. 

Here is the thing, Phillips was on a 6th round rookie who had not done anything all (year). He was in perfect position, but even when in perfect position a perfect throw beats perfect position. The call was fine. Phillips didn't miss his press, or lose position, he was in phase and you just have to tip your cap to Mayfield for making the throw. Phillips had a chance on the ball, and an interception, he just missed it. To say they should have played a two-high shell is silly as well because even in a two-high shell the TE is pushing vertical which means the safety would have to split the distance between the outside WR and TE until the ball is thrown. If that is the case there is very little chance the safety gets over to make a play on that ball based on where Mayfield put that ball. If your argument was a two high off coverage, that sounds great but the 10 yard out sight adjustment kicks in, and your looking at 1st and 10 from the 11/12 with enough time for a shot and still a FG.

The call was fine, but much like a lot of things execution is the difference between being a genius and an idiot. Sometimes, the other guy just makes a better play than you...that happened on the last play.

I watched the entire 1hr. 10 mins. of that and was totally in awe of what happened. Lou had the defense in Cover 1 most of the game and the defense was getting roasted. If Cover 1 is not working, why stay in it? Players, especially linebackers were constantly out of position. Ace Boogie and Coach was constantly pointing out how Bynes was making bad plays. With 1:06 left for the Browns with no timeouts, I would think that you should be in Cover 2 or 3, to keep the plays in front of your defense. But no, Lou stayed in Cover 1 with the corners pressing. Bates in Cover 1 can only help cover 1 side of the field.

Granted, there were a lot of player mistakes but Lou called a bad game.

Just a question out of curiosity with Halloween coming this weekend, do you happen to be the Tony that lives in Danny's mouth?

(10-27-2020, 04:05 PM)Au165 Wrote: I skipped to the end because I wanted to get a feel for the guys based on their take on the last play. They seem like they are just victims of hindsight here, saying "you can't call that" and the corners "can't play that close" is revisionist and disregarding the football view of the situation. To review this, you have to think about the whole game, not just the play before where they got beat on a one-on-one jump ball. They had scored 3 times on routes to their TE's and it all happened because they didn't leverage inside help. 

This last play they are in cover 1 with Vonn Bell playing as a "robber" and Bates playing the deep center position. The outside guys are in press man with the inside guys off the snap playing outside leverage and releasing inside. The slot man and LB on the TE are playing outside leverage because Bates and Bell have inside help at two levels. Both outside guys get good jams off the line and get into phase well. The defense here is betting on the Browns doing what they had done most of the game and attacking the middle of the field or at least crossing through it where they can pick up help as they cross. 

Here is the thing, Phillips was on a 6th round rookie who had not done anything all (year). He was in perfect position, but even when in perfect position a perfect throw beats perfect position. The call was fine. Phillips didn't miss his press, or lose position, he was in phase and you just have to tip your cap to Mayfield for making the throw. Phillips had a chance on the ball, and an interception, he just missed it. To say they should have played a two-high shell is silly as well because even in a two-high shell the TE is pushing vertical which means the safety would have to split the distance between the outside WR and TE until the ball is thrown. If that is the case there is very little chance the safety gets over to make a play on that ball based on where Mayfield put that ball. If your argument was a two high off coverage, that sounds great but the 10 yard out sight adjustment kicks in, and your looking at 1st and 10 from the 11/12 with enough time for a shot and still a FG.

The call was fine, but much like a lot of things execution is the difference between being a genius and an idiot. Sometimes, the other guy just makes a better play than you...that happened on the last play.

They cover every single defensive snap... Alot of it is missing communication.. Bynes jumping in the wrong gaps.. DBs confuse and lining up wrong right off the bat...

(10-27-2020, 05:19 PM)BacknDaDey Wrote: I watched the entire 1hr. 10 mins. of that and was totally in awe of what happened.  Lou had the defense in Cover 1 most of the game and the defense was getting roasted.  If Cover 1 is not working, why stay in it?  Players, especially linebackers were constantly out of position.  Ace Boogie and Coach was constantly pointing out how Bynes was making bad plays.  With 1:06 left for the Browns with no timeouts, I would think that you should be in Cover 2 or 3, to keep the plays in front of your defense.  But no, Lou stayed in Cover 1 with the corners pressing.  Bates in Cover 1 can only help cover 1 side of the field.

Granted, there were a lot of player mistakes but Lou called a bad game.

I was amazed at how many time it was the scheme and players being confused right at the start of the play. It happened on 75% of their big plays. Bynes is out of position alot.. The plays were Geno and Dunlap are in they get way better pressure than when not too. It's obvious they should be playing a ton more. Bledsoe and the other guy are confused as hell. A couple times Pratt and LB wilson are trying to get them to shift and they do nothing. Tapping them on the hips , Wilson even screaming at them 1 play... It's eye opening that's for sure... Its definitely not all player talent as to why they are this bad on defense. It's obvious. Makes you feel a little better if they dump Lou, we will be ok... It's on him imho...

(10-27-2020, 05:21 PM)GodFather Wrote: Just a question out of curiosity with Halloween coming this weekend, do you happen to be the Tony that lives in Danny's mouth?

If I am you are talking to a Ghost right now....

(10-27-2020, 03:00 PM)Tony Wrote: https://youtu.be/ozXcwDm6koE

This a very good youtube show on the Bengals called cut the tape. They go over every defensive play from a full view of the defensive line up, zoomed out. Watching this, it seems alot of the problem is miss communication. Alot of it there is LBs LBs screaming for the line to shift and the guys off the street just sit there. You will see Bynes and alot of the rookies out of position a ton. Wilson #55 is our best LB already. 1 other take. With our #1 and #2 starting Dbs out. It was criminally insane to play press man with Phillip's and Sims on Clevelands last TD .. It's either the players not being coached right or the coaches communication with the Defense is very bad.  Maybe both. It's a good watch. I also think Alexander has been our best Db outside of WJIII and it's close with them. Alexander is a great tackler, although he did miss a huge sack that could of stopped a Cleveland scoring drive. Carl Lawson is playing better than people think too..

Who is the miss communication? And why is she causing all this trouble? A cheerleader? One of the players' moms? 

Seriously, i'll watch the video later. 

(10-27-2020, 08:40 PM)Tony Wrote: They cover every single defensive snap... Alot of it is missing communication.. Bynes jumping in the wrong gaps.. DBs confuse and lining up wrong right off the bat...

Based off the last play I watched( saw part of the play before) them break down, I’d take their breakdown with a grain of salt. One dude constantly says you “can’t do that” about various things but you absolutely can and should in reference to a couple things he said.

For instance he said the play before the score the safety “can’t” go with that crosser, that is in fact incorrect. What happened there is called a “jump call”, essentially to mitigate traffic the safety rolls down to pick up the crosser while the CB vacates back to deep center and is responsible for covering that backside post which would have been Bates responsibility. One way you can usually tell is in cover 1 against a “nasty split” (reduced to wide side) you’ll get this call because there is no threat to that side of the field after 1 (outer most receiver) takes his route inward so his CB can peel back which the corner does until he sees no other threat to that side and follows behind the play.

Thank you to Au165 above. I'm watching the vid now and have some of the same reactions. They're as subjective as anybody else.

For example, early on "the coach" says Bynes is out of position and should've stopped Hunt in the hole. But what happens is that Hunt presses the line, Bynes steps up into his gap, so Hunt bounces it outside and Logan Wilson drops him. Bynes did what he was supposed to do.

Later they say you can never have a CB cover a TE. This was in reference to Sims covering Njoku. No, that is not a hard and fast rule. Sims was covering the TE against Philly for a pick that was a major play in the game. Frankly, that's how you should use him. In fact Sims shut down Njoku on the play... it was when Njoku was matched against Bell that he scored a TD. So who do they want to cover Njoku? A linebacker? Come on.

There's a lot of analysis by assertion going on, w/o backing it up. I like Ace Boogie overall (never heard of the other guy), but ultimately they're not that different than the regulars on this board, who just act like the sky is falling on the defense after a high scoring game and act like the sky is falling on the offense after a low scoring game.

All I mean is take it with a grain of salt, as Au165 says.

Not trying to knock Ace, but Matt Minich’s chalk talk breakdowns are far better.

(10-28-2020, 12:41 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Not trying to knock Ace, but Matt Minich’s chalk talk breakdowns are far better.

I watch him too... I like D&H sports with the puppets too...hodgie smodgie and Dadio Mcdook..

(10-27-2020, 08:52 PM)Tony Wrote: If I am you are talking to a Ghost right now... 

Mr. Hallorann, are you scared of this place?




No Tony, I’m more afraid of being a Bengals fan. The misery year after year.....

(10-28-2020, 12:41 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Not trying to knock Ace, but Matt Minich’s chalk talk breakdowns are far better.

Agreed. 

Thanks for this Tony, will watch later when I have some more time.

A lot of what you say is exactly what I see which makes me feel better about our players overall.

Think with a new DC like Wade Phillips we should be fine on that side of the ball after a good Offseason and players getting
healthy. We have had a lot of injuries but next man up has to always be the mind set and Lou hasn't done a good job with
the next men up.