(10-28-2020, 04:08 PM)Sled21 Wrote:  Many aspects of this team are vastly improved, and the fact that we are consistently in the game shows it.

There is not a single aspect of the team that is "vastly" improved since 2018.  Our win and our tie were against two of the worst teams in the league (combined 3-10-1).  The Chargers have only won one other game since playing us.  Both our offense and defense are ranked in the 20's.

I'll say I've been very frustrated with the coaching/scheme/losing. However the offense is improving without a doubt even with one of the worst Olines in the NFL.

The defense needs a lot of work.

I'll just say I'm trying to have patience.

(10-28-2020, 03:25 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: to step back and press the reset button?

I don't know. Just sit back for a minute, let your negative emotions and the losing record go for just a bit and let me know how you feel about where this thing is going. 

Take a few minutes and get back to me. 

Negative emotions? Well, I don't have any of those.  What I have is empirical evidence: 3-19-1.  This is winning approximately 15% of the time which is horrible.  There is too much talent on this team to have such a bad record.  Okay, I can maybe understand going 2-14 in a head coach's first season but to regress in the second season is indicative the Front Office made a bad hire.  Marvin Lewis, after all, went 8-8 in his first season as head coach after a 2-14 record the previous year.  

Unlike 2003 I do not see improvement in 2020.  Tackles are still being whiffed, blocks are still being missed, and the "football basics" just aren't there.  Even worse, the Bengals are not playing with energy or urgency.  That was the difference in 2003; Marvin brought a new energy to the team.  It didn't last as we all know but it was there.  Zac Taylor is very cerebral and such but I don't see the energy. 

Pull the plug.  Eject.  Bail out.  Cut bait.  

We reset the roster every year at least to some degree.  Players come, players go.  Some vets stay, some leave.  I doubt that blowing things up like an expansion team in it's infancy is the answer.  That's just too many holes to fill all at once.

It just pretty much comes down to the coaching.  What Mike Brown is willing to pay for is what we get.  This isn't Las Vegas, Pittsburgh or Dallas where they're going to pay a premium for good coaches.  Marvin was a good coach, but I bet they got him at a discount because he was a minority coach and one with no prior head coaching experience.  I would ask for more money to come to Cincinnati if I was a HC because of the possible detrimental impact it could have on my career down the road.

Until MB buys into overpaying for quality coaches, not much will change.  Remember when we couldn't even fill Lou's DC position because no one would take it?  Probably a low ball salary had a good deal to do with it.

Good teams are good year after year because of their coaches and their impact on the players.  
Who knows?  Maybe we will catch lightning in a bottle and Burrow can carry the whole damn organization on his back, but it's doubtful.

(10-28-2020, 03:52 PM)bengaloo Wrote: I'm willing to be patient for now. ZT hasnt always impressed me, but despite the record, I think we are moving in the right direction right now. This team needed rebuilt when he took over, and it was more than a one offseason thing, especially with players like Dunlap and Atkins not playing as well as we all hoped. Those guys are getting old though, and this is the NFL. Shelf life.

Joe Burrow believes in ZT, and I think he knows what he's talking about. We have been within a play or 2 from having a pretty good record right now, and considering the injuries and falloff in play by players like Dunlap and Atkins, losing Waynes, etc. I think we are better off to be patient and see how this pans out.

This is my thoughts as well....they didn't do much as far as roster overhaul last season. Like nothing. Pistons used to post on here all the time about how this was going to be a total rebuild, whether fans liked it or not. He was right.

The staff needs tweaked, I believe. The drafts have been decent, Williams was a consensus pick, Sample is starting to contribute, Pratt has played a lot....still needs polish...Wilson looks like a fine player, Burrow and Higgins are BALLING. The offense gets better every week, and is much improved from the last two seasons...all behind a much maligned oline. The defense is struggling with injuries and transition....and probably a coaching issue. 

The world isn't over despite the record, but we need to see continued, marked improvement as the season goes on, and need to be contenders out of the gate next season if the staff, or at least part of it, is still here.

(10-28-2020, 04:15 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: They are indeed showing improvement.  The offense is developing quite nicely, they are putting points on the board.  The defense, despite all of the injuries and recent controversy, has kept the team in all but one game so far.

You might want to only point out what is wrong with the team, but I see a team that is just a few plays going their way from having a winning record.

....and a couple questionable calls....

(10-28-2020, 03:25 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: to step back and press the reset button?

I'm an impatient person when there is something i want or something that's on the way to me. I've been a Bengals fan since 1978, so i've been through the gamut of emotions with this team. Even with all my whinings squealings, through the end of the Dalton and Marv era, through the early Zac era, i still get the feeling (mostly lately) that things could turn around--given a little...wait for it--patience. 

There it is, the word no one wants to hear or utter. 

What i'm saying it just this; take a minute to look over what the team has done since the beginning of last year and throw out the results for now, while trying hard to do it objectively. You may need to grab a cup of coffee and sit back for a minute. Maybe just clear your head and convince yourself you can do this...whatever it takes. 

The early returns of the Zac era aren't promising, when you look at he bottom line results but i think there are some things to look at and think, maybe, just maybe, the Bengals could be heading in the right direction, with some recent mis-steps along the way (dealing with players). 

I don't know. Just sit back for a minute, let your negative emotions and the losing record go for just a bit and let me know how you feel about where this thing is going. 

Seriously. I don't need to see snap reactions to this about how they suck, it's going nowhere, etc etc. 

Take a few minutes and get back to me. 

We are a very young team with young coaches and had no Preseason. I expected us to start out slow and get better as the season
went on. This is what we are seeing and besides the Ravens game we have been competitive. Thought Taylor's play calling was 
much better in this last game, I like seeing us trade Dunlap and bringing in a couple decent Guards.

Didn't expect Burrow and the Offense being this good with this O-line honestly.

The Defense has really been hit at DT and Geno just doesn't look the same. The young LB's namely Wilson are coming around, 
Bynes I think might need to go back to being a back up. The secondary has got hit with injuries, no WJ3 last game, I thought we
were going to get torched by the Stains. Wasn't as bad as I thought honestly. Those last few catches that won the game for the
Stains were just hell of good catches. I can handle losing this way.

No doom and gloom here, I thought it would be this way. Think we could of had 3-4 wins already. Just have to win the close 
games under Taylor sooner or later for me to gain some confidence in the guy.

I am on an island here, but I think the offense which includes play calling by a 2nd year HC/OC has improved. It's only one game but the offense against the Colts which at the time had the #1 defense in the NFL was on schedule and efficient for just over a quarter. Not much but it was shocking to watch at least with these tired eyes.

When I compare this offense with those in the past like teams guided by Brat or Zamp, this offense with Burrow has potential. But the defense blows and I think Lou needs to go. I know there are injuries but still, I would love to have Zim back at DC.

Totally calm..... Totally stepped back. In fact, I refuse to invest that much into this team and have not done so in years. So....

I take a look at us and I take a look at a division rival: The Browns. How under Hue they couldn't win, Greg Williams stepped in and they won like 7 games. Went from looking horrible to disciplined and hard nosed. Hired that Kitchens guy and went back to looking like crap. Hired Kevin Stefanski and are 4-2 and look like a serious team in his rookie season.

Then we look at Zach Taylor. Well first we need to look at Joe Burrow. This kid is breaking rookie records and lighting it up unlike any QB we have had prior. The potential is there to be another Patrick Mahommes caliber QB.

NOW switch to Taylor. Is he really the guy we want to trust with the keys to Joe Burrow? Like I said in the 2000's and 2010's, Lewis was wasting Palmer amd Daltons potential and wasted two SB caliber teams. Taylor isn't even close to being as good as Marvin.

The calm, take a step back mindset tells me Taylor is a nice guy, good QB coach but a terrible HC. Don't waste Burrows potential. Go get a higher caliber HC. With a better coaching staff this team is 1 or 2 offseasons from being a serious contender. Zach Taylor just isn't the guy.

If they get the pieces in place for O-line and produce acceptable run blocking the Offense should fine.

The defense is just not producing ANY kind of a pass rush.

I agree that Lou is not a very good DC and probably needs to go but injuries and players not doing their job certainly are hurting them.

That all being said I don't think Taylor is as bad as I thought he was. LMAO

We shall see with teams like Titans and Steelers coming up.

Zac might just get his lunch money stolen and an atomic wedgie.

(10-28-2020, 03:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I would have patience if we were showing any improvement at all, but we are not. Zac has had 2 full drafts and 2 offseasons and we are still much worse than when he got here.

Yep! Until the team actually gets better and starts to win against good teams there's no satisfaction.

Taylor has the worst record in the NFL since he arrived. He's had the worst start of any Bengals coach in history.

 

(10-28-2020, 05:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: There is not a single aspect of the team that is "vastly" improved since 2018.  Our win and our tie were against two of the worst teams in the league (combined 3-10-1).  The Chargers have only won one other game since playing us.  Both our offense and defense are ranked in the 20's.

The offense has absolutely improved. Do you remember last season? We scored less than 20 points 11 times. ELEVEN TIMES. This offense is capable of putting up 30 points on a consistent basis (something we only did twice all last year). There’s a reason we’ve stopped seeing pleas for ZT to give up the play calling in every single thread.

Took some notes from the previous replies to discuss.

1. Last year; 2-14 coming off a year where they finished 6-10, losing 7 of their last 8. Free agents that were signed; John Miller (G), B.W. Webb (CB), Kerry Wynn (DE), Justin Evans (OT--cut in training camp), John Jerry (G). A couple of these guys racked up some significant snaps but it's safe to say there were no world beaters here, so no real significant changes to a team that wasn't very good the year before. A lot of people, myself included, thought that simply changing the coach would improve things--a new direction, freshness, so to speak. 

2. Any improvement this year?; With the overall record certainly showing there has been little to no improvement, i think you can look at the offense and see that scoring is up. Play calling in the last couple games has been vastly improved over anything we've seen so far. Earlier in the year, there was some good play from the DBs before injuries hit and there have been flashes from a couple of the young LBs. 

3. Assistant coaches; It's no secret that the Bengals had to scrape the bottom of the barrel for a DC last year and overall, they have a very inexperienced staff. The ones that are experienced (Jim Turner) comes with a lot of baggage and looks to be one of Zac's cronies. 

4. Injuries; the verbum diei is "excuses". Every day, honestly because the saying is supposed to be "next man up". It's more than a bit frustrating that the Bengals have to go through so many injury replacements but it is what it is. Hard to argue that there would be some better results if they could keep their starters in games. My personal opinion is, team wide, they're not physically as strong as most of the better teams in the NFL. Couple that with the softer rules on practice and injuries are inevitable. 

5. Coaching philosophy (soft?); This is one i don't really agree with. I've seen plenty of physical play in pretty much any year you want to cite. Is it as physical as Pitt, Baltimore and a couple other? Nah, but i wouldn't call them "soft". 

6. Drafting better?; 2015 was a disaster. Starters and contributors from '16-'18 currently on the team--WJ3, Boyd, Ross (bleh), Mixon, Lawson, Price, JB3, Hubbard, Phillips, Tate. Guys from the last two drafts--Williams, Sample, Pratt, M.Jordan, Burrow, Higgins, Wilson. That's six, normal, full time starters from the three previous years to Zac's arrival and four from the last two years. 

7. Players believe in Zac; More than a couple players recently have made a point to say how much they believe in Zac and the direction the team is going. Some might call it lip service but you can show support without going into the detail that these players have. 

8. Close losses; The record speaks for itself. 1-12-1. Most teams win around half of their one score games. There are a couple ways to look at this but the one question i'll ask is, would you prefer a team that has a chance to win at the end or a team that is out of it by the 4th quarter? Seven of those one score losses were against winning teams, so they're not only losing close games to bad teams. 

9. Areas of need; Offensive line, offensive line, offensive line, offensive line, offensive line, defensive line, edge rusher and a linebacker or two. Trenches are a major need on this team and i think the one thing that has them where they are. Imagine this team with a little more passpro and run blocking, that can get a little pressure on the QB. They'd have to have at least 2-3 more wins. 

10. New coordinators? No one likes either one. Recent trends indicate the offensive play calling is coming along. We'll see how that goes against the next two teams--Tennessee and Pittsburgh. The defense on the other hand, seems to be a long way off. In execution and theory. Being fair, they did seem to try and mix it up a bit more against Cleveland but far too many times, i've pulled out pounds and pounds of hair watching the team get shredded with no pass rush and zone defenses that leave large gaps in coverage. 

11. 2020 Free agency; Spent the most on quality free agents that they ever have, with five of them being tabbed as full time starters from day one. Unfortunately, four of them are injured and out right now. Another year, or one close to it, with that mindset, could do a lot to help this team. 

I'm not sure where my (somewhat) optimism is coming from--maybe it's just the new QB--but there are little signs there, if you're willing to look, that make it appear they're not that far off. Another FA period, another draft, another year of experience for inexperienced coaches... It just has the feel of being right around the corner and anyone that knows my posting history here knows...i hate the word "hope". 

(10-28-2020, 10:19 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The offense has absolutely improved. Do you remember last season? We scored less than 20 points 11 times. ELEVEN TIMES. This offense is capable of putting up 30 points on a consistent basis (something we only did twice all last year). There’s a reason we’ve stopped seeing pleas for ZT to give up the play calling in every single thread.

Twice last year in 16 games. Three times so far this year in 7 games. 

(10-28-2020, 05:17 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: That’s where I’m at too. Although I don’t say it often because it’s not worth the arguments. I think he needed (and still needs) to bring in a proven DC. After that I think things are trending in the right direction even if some of these losses are extremely painful to watch.

I'm not even going to say I'm calling for Lou to be replaced. (and neither is this board when the defense plays well and the offense doesn't.... it just depends on what week it is) I mean, c'mon, let's look at what he's working with. We all hear injuries are not an excuse, but sometimes they just devastate a team. We haven't had Waynes at all, we lost Alexander for awhile, Reader is gone for they year, Geno is still hurt, Carlos was just taking up space, we lost Wrenn, Topou, Glasgow.... basically we are playing a Dline made up of 3rd and 4th stringers, and they are ALL pretty much playing above their pedigrees. Linebacker play with the rookies is much better than it has been in the past. And for the most part I think the DB's have played well. We are still getting run on, yes, but the fixes that were brought in to address that are not available right now. Still, when I watch this defense play, it feels better than it has in years past, and as the rookies mature, it will continue to improve.

Now, that said, I AM ready for Zac to cut Turner loose and hire a different line coach. 

(10-29-2020, 08:45 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I'm not even going to say I'm calling for Lou to be replaced. (and neither is this board when the defense plays well and the offense doesn't.... it just depends on what week it is) I mean, c'mon, let's look at what he's working with. We all hear injuries are not an excuse, but sometimes they just devastate a team. We haven't had Waynes at all, we lost Alexander for awhile, Reader is gone for they year, Geno is still hurt, Carlos was just taking up space, we lost Wrenn, Topou, Glasgow.... basically we are playing a Dline made up of 3rd and 4th stringers, and they are ALL pretty much playing above their pedigrees. Linebacker play with the rookies is much better than it has been in the past. And for the most part I think the DB's have played well. We are still getting run on, yes, but the fixes that were brought in to address that are not available right now. Still, when I watch this defense play, it feels better than it has in years past, and as the rookies mature, it will continue to improve.

Now, that said, I AM ready for Zac to cut Turner loose and hire a different line coach. 

Really? Because watching Mayfield go on a ridiculous 21/21 streak or whatever it was last game looked as bad as ever to me. Idc how many injuries you’re dealing with. That’s just flat out embarrassing, and Lou had absolutely no answer for it.

When I think of reset buttons I think of my old Nintendo that I got in 1988 and then I realize that thing was still state of the art the last time the Bengals won a playoff game.

If there was ever a team that could get under your skin,so to speak,more than the Bengals,I haven’t seen it yet.It seems there is always some kind of drama or just stupid decisions be made that hurt this team.Like one step forward and two steps back.Just look back at this season so far through seven games.Six of those Seven games they by all rights should have won.The last game you lose with 11 secs remaining on the clock.That being said though,believe it or not,although for right now,there is a lot of frustration setting in,I for one,believe,there could be a bright future for this team.Although this bright future may not include this current head coach.

(10-29-2020, 10:16 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Really? Because watching Mayfield go on a ridiculous 21/21 streak or whatever it was last game looked as bad as ever to me. Idc how many injuries you’re dealing with. That’s just flat out embarrassing, and Lou had absolutely no answer for it.

That’s absolutely right. When a defense does not pressure the quarterback and has loose coverage on the back end the opposing offense will play throw and catch all day. I am with Urban Meyer here. He claims good pass defense is 80% pass rush and 20% coverage by the secondary.

(10-29-2020, 01:06 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: That’s absolutely right. When a defense does not pressure the quarterback and has loose coverage on the back end the opposing offense will play throw and catch all day.  I am with Urban Meyer here. He claims good pass defense is 80% pass rush and 20% coverage by the secondary.

Hubbard getting hurt, Carlos not giving any effort, will give you no pass rush.