(10-29-2020, 04:20 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Ok, fine, but that means no complaining about vets and high draft picks playing no matter what. Back to the Merv days....

It doesn't have anything to do with "vets".  It has to do with "competence".  

Fans don't want vets benched for players that are worse.  They only wants vets benched when they have back ups who are better.  The guys who were put in front of Dunlap are not producing.  Our defense just got shredded.


You are the only guy here who is happy with two wins a season as long as Marvin is not coaching.  The rest of us would like some actual success.

(10-29-2020, 04:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It doesn't have anything to do with "vets".  It has to do with "competence".  

Fans don't want vets benched for players that are worse.  They only wants vets benched when they have back ups who are better.  The guys who were put in front of Dunlap are not producing.  Our defense just got shredded.


You are the only guy here who is happy with two wins a season as long as Marvin is not coaching.  The rest of us would like some actual success.

I'd take 2 win seasons over Marvin but only if the replacement weren't a bland dumbass like ZT.  Maybe we could be like a movie where a 9 year old kid is the HC, or a kangaroo or something.  For THAT I'd take 2 wins.

(10-29-2020, 03:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No one ever really knew.  There was nothing but speculation over who was making the final call.

Here's what Mike had to say about it 6 years ago, when it came to Katie, Marvin and the gang:

"They're doing it now," Brown said. "The ball has essentially been handed off. I can still bark, and they have to make sure they don't step on my toes." "

But, as Marvin said after one of Pacman's incident's where it was reported he wanted him gone, and he was asked about important decisions on player personnel, 'Mike has two votes to my one.'

So, it sounded like Marvin had some control, but as always, Mike had the final say.

(10-29-2020, 04:28 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm not going to bat for Dunlap so much as pointing out how ZT and Lou are so bad that they are really hard to defend.  Hell, you say going back to the Merv days as if going back to the days where we were a mediocre team wouldn't be a huge step up in the world.  Oof.

So back to mediocracy.  Personally, I'll take a couple of bad years on the way to being good.

(10-29-2020, 04:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It doesn't have anything to do with "vets".  It has to do with "competence".  

Fans don't want vets benched for players that are worse.  They only wants vets benched when they have back ups who are better.  The guys who were put in front of Dunlap are not producing.  Our defense just got shredded.


You are the only guy here who is happy with two wins a season as long as Marvin is not coaching.  The rest of us would like some actual success.

And you are the only guy here who thinks Carlos was playing competently.

And I'm not happy with 2 win seasons, I just realize things don't happen overnight. And I can remember from week to week what is said. One week Lou has to go, the next week he's not that bad and had a great gameplan, then the next week he has to go..... it's just flavor of the day.

(10-29-2020, 04:35 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Personally, I'll take a couple of bad years on the way to being good.

I would to if there was any sign we are on our way to being good.

No one on this staff has any track record of being good at what they are doing.

And after two years we have not gotten any better.

(10-29-2020, 04:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I would to if there was any sign we are on our way to being good.

No one on this staff has any track record of being good at what they are doing.

And after two years we have not gotten any better.

Really, after 2 years? He's only had a season and a half...almost.

(10-29-2020, 04:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I would to if there was any sign we are on our way to being good.

No one on this staff has any track record of being good at what they are doing.

And after two years we have not gotten any better.

If Zac were just the OC, I wouldn't really have any problem with him this year, as the offense has looked better overall, even with the o-line issues and subpar running game. However, he's also the HC...and after 23 games, he just doesn't look qualified to be one, IMO. I've tried being patient when it comes to judging him, but the records on the road, in one score games and when scoring first are just so incredibly bad that there's no way to not place it at the head coaches feet. I honestly believe he's just really in over his head and has more on his plate than he's capable of handling at this point.

(10-29-2020, 01:34 PM)Sled21 Wrote: So in short order, Carlos just didn't like his DC and wanted to play the way he wanted to and not the way the coaches wanted him to.

Pretty much, But you know Bengals = Bad Guy

(10-29-2020, 03:17 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: How sad is it Dunlap actually offered to buy out his contract so they could release him?

Seriously, think about that.  How could you be so stubborn not to trade a guy for something in return, that it leads to the player just being like "Look, man.  I'll give you back 5 million dollars to just let me out of here!"

They deserved that money back..

(10-29-2020, 04:28 PM)Nately120 Wrote: We'll let the marketing department handle that part, Fred.

Kinda off topic, and I don't exactly why reading your comment made me want to bring it up, but there's a very good chance we have more people in the marketing department than we do in the scouting department.

Kinda wild to think about.

(10-29-2020, 04:40 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Really, after 2 years? He's only had a season and a half...almost.

In fairness though, it's been an epically bad season and a half. Under Zac, they have been literally the worst in the NFL - record wise - in just about every situation/scenario. At some point he needs to produce some actual wins, instead of finding new ways to lose.

I think what is telling is how alot of the offensive players are coming to Zac's defense when attacked and stand by him and on the defense side , mum seems to be the word. The silence from defensive players speaks volumes about Lou...

My takeaway from all this: Carlos needed to be shown the door, Lou should've been right behind him...and Mike Brown still sucks.

(10-29-2020, 02:22 PM)Wyche Wrote: Somewhat true....but guys like Reader apparently had no problem with him judging by what he said in interviews early in the year. My guess would be that they wanted to change up Dunlaps role in the defense, and he didn't like it. Then when Anarumo got a little testy with him over it, he flaked out. Like was said in the podcast, sometimes it's best to just move on. This one looks to be on the FO yet again for being stubborn. If you support your coaching staff, you don't undermine their authority. Mike did the same shit to Marvin.

Yep, this is basically the whole story right here. Coaching staff wants to zig, MB/FO wants to zag, team suffers.

(10-29-2020, 05:06 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: My takeaway from all this: Carlos needed to be shown the door, Lou should've been right behind him...and Mike Brown still sucks.

Yep, this is the real problem. You can't ask somebody to drive then grab the wheel from the passenger seat. 

(10-29-2020, 04:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It doesn't have anything to do with "vets".  It has to do with "competence".  

Fans don't want vets benched for players that are worse.  They only wants vets benched when they have back ups who are better.  The guys who were put in front of Dunlap are not producing.  Our defense just got shredded.

The problem for me is that Carlos wasn't really 'outperforming' anyone either. It's one thing to say backups aren't player better than Carlos, but then you realize the bigger issue is that Carlos is playing better than the backups...and unfortunately, that was the case this year. 

(10-29-2020, 05:12 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Yep, this is the real problem. You can't ask somebody to drive then grab the wheel from the passenger seat. 

Not very high on Zac at this point, as I think he's in over his head, but at the same time...having Mike Brown as your boss sure the hell doesn't do you any favors either. Maybe Zac was arrogant enough, or naive enough, to think he could overcome the family. You might be able to convince Mike and the gang to do certain things or try something new here and there, but as Mike said, no one's going to 'step on his toes.' 

So vets want to have a say in the defense they couldn't fix long before Lou got here?

And how does any of this make Dunlap look better given what all he posted and said on Instagram? The coaches didn't force him to do that. Sounds like he made them right all along.

Besides, reports from personnel people across the league say his play was p poor this year, and he lacked effort.

If you want to prove people wrong (coaches), that isn't how you do it. All he did was prove them right and the FO incompetent (which we already said they were for the halfass rebuild that has set the rebuild back 4 years).

I side with Lou and Zac. They should have control over which Marvin guys to have traded/released etc. These complaints are coming from Marvin guys who would have been long gone when any other new regime came to town. It's not like Zac took over a 14-2 team. They've been bad on D for a long time. Lou isn't the common denominator. They are. FO still only reacts and aren't proactive. Their inability to be proactive is why this franchise (and Burrow) are doomed, and likely won't be competitive for the next decade or so.

(10-29-2020, 04:35 PM)Sled21 Wrote: So back to mediocracy.  Personally, I'll take a couple of bad years on the way to being good.

Fine by me, but I can't guarantee ZT and Lou are going to be part of a team that wins 10+ games and wins a playoff game.  I haven't seen anything to make me think they can, but Burrow could drag anyone all the way, I guess.