I know that many want to see some of the backups play on the oline to see if they can protect Burrow better than the starter.

I agree with that sentiment to a degree, but would prefer it not be a wholesale change as too much can go wrong and expose the young man to serious injury.

With all of that said, if Joe lays and egg tomorrow due to relentless pressure and poor oline performances, could THIS be the moment that management realizes the importance of paying quality interior linemen?

The kid has taken a brutal beating this year from sub-par play. Should the oline devolve even more, I think the light bulb might finally come on to know that significant resources are required to keep a QB upright so he can do his job.

(10-31-2020, 10:58 AM)jfkbengals Wrote: I know that many want to see some of the backups play on the oline to see if they can protect Burrow better than the starter.

I agree with that sentiment to a degree, but would prefer it not be a wholesale change as too much can go wrong and expose the young man to serious injury.

With all of that said, if Joe lays and egg tomorrow due to relentless pressure and poor oline performances, could THIS be the moment that management realizes the importance of paying quality interior linemen?

The kid has taken a brutal beating this year from sub-par play.  Should the oline devolve even more, I think the light bulb might finally come on to know that significant resources are required to keep a QB upright so he can do his job.

While I would hardly call it a blessing, I think one positive is the Bengals get one final time to evaluate Billy Price healthy at Center.  They also get to see Adeniji and Fred Johnson play tackle.  

And the amazing thing is, while if this were Dalton I would be running to my bookie to place a large wager on the Titans I still believe that Burrow will find a way to put up another 30 point effort.  I made a separate thread about the defensive game plan.  They have their players missing as well, but the game will come down to their ability to slow the Titans offense.  

While it is extremely important for the offensive line to give Joe Burrow time and space to complete lots of passes sometimes we forget the run game. Run blocking is equally important as pass protection.

High quality running backs like Joe Mixon and Giovani Bernard shouldn’t be stuffed at the line of scrimmage or tackled for a loss on a consistent basis. Averaging ~3 yards per carry is seriously underachieving for those two!

It is not coincidental the Bengals’ only win of the season was when Joe Mixon ran for over 100 yards against Jacksonville. The Jaguars are junk, to be sure, but 158 yards is an excellent day for a running back no matter what.

Finally, a competent run game controls the clock and moves the chains. This is something the Bengals are missing and must fix as soon as possible. So, tomorrow, please take notice of the run blocking. Pass protection is important but rushing is the other half of a successful offense.

(10-31-2020, 12:25 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: While it is extremely important for the offensive line to give Joe Burrow time and space to complete lots of passes sometimes we forget the run game.  Run blocking is equally important as pass protection.  

High quality running backs like Joe Mixon and Giovani Bernard shouldn’t be stuffed at the line of scrimmage or tackled for a loss on a consistent basis.  Averaging ~3 yards per carry is seriously underachieving for those two!

It is not coincidental the Bengals’ only win of the season was when Joe Mixon ran for over 100 yards against Jacksonville.  The Jaguars are junk, to be sure, but 158 yards is an excellent day for a running back no matter what.

Finally, a competent run game controls the clock and moves the chains.  This is something the Bengals are missing and must fix as soon as possible.  So, tomorrow, please take notice of the run blocking. Pass protection is important but rushing is the other half of a successful offense.

Yep, and the one win on the ledger had a big day running the ball.  They seem to abandon it so quickly.  I hope we get to see some Trayveon Williams.  

(10-31-2020, 10:58 AM)jfkbengals Wrote:   Should the oline devolve even more, I think the light bulb might finally come on to know that significant resources are required to keep a QB upright so he can do his job.

The claim that the Bengals don't value O-line is ridiculous.  Bengals have always paid the O-line well.  Levi and Willie were the highest paid OT duo in the league.  We paid Whitworth well until he was 36.  We paid OG's Bobbie Williams and Clint Boling well and used a first round pick on OG Kevin Zeitler.   We have used a first round pick on O-line in 2 of our last 3 and 3 of our last 5 drafts.  We traded for the 8th highest paid OT in the league in 2018. 

I wonder if they can install Spain in a few goal line packages with such a short turnaround.

Joe does not look well to me, I think he needs bed rest until we get our OL healthy.

He should go on IR to make sure he is not killed.

I kid, but I am worried this OL may allow him to be hit a lot, worse than our starters.

(10-31-2020, 12:44 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Joe does not look well to me, I think he needs bed rest until we get our OL healthy.

He should go on IR to make sure he is not killed.

I kid, but I am worried this OL may allow him to be hit a lot, worse than our starters.

Which Joe? Both Joe Mixon and Joe Burrow are getting smacked hard.

(10-31-2020, 10:58 AM)jfkbengals Wrote: I know that many want to see some of the backups play on the oline to see if they can protect Burrow better than the starter.

I agree with that sentiment to a degree, but would prefer it not be a wholesale change as too much can go wrong and expose the young man to serious injury.

With all of that said, if Joe lays and egg tomorrow due to relentless pressure and poor oline performances, could THIS be the moment that management realizes the importance of paying quality interior linemen?

The kid has taken a brutal beating this year from sub-par play.  Should the oline devolve even more, I think the light bulb might finally come on to know that significant resources are required to keep a QB upright so he can do his job.

I was surprised this off season when the Bengals knew 100% they were picking Joe Burrow, they decided to focus FA on defense.  Maybe that's the way the FA ball bounced with the offers they made or maybe that was their direction, fix the defense first.   Unfortunately the defense has been poor and the Bengals are left to scratch their heads with what could have been.  Way it goes.  

Now I do hope the Bengals go into the offseason determined to get talent on their OL.   Not just for Burrow's sake, Mixon and Giovanni are weapons that are being wasted with this line.  

I don't know if I would consider 3 OL starters out a "blessing". I mean, it will be nice to get an extended look at Billy Price, and make the determination as to weather he can save some face and salvage something of his pro career. I guess it's also going to be nice to see weather Johnson and Adeniji have what it takes to continue investing in their development.

Personally, I'd much rather see the starting 5 out there, continuing to build that cohesiveness that comes from playing together and working as a unit. It's sad, as they were actually starting to gain a little traction, and allowing Burrow to do his thing.

If everyone is healthy after the bye, they will have 11 linemen available (not including Sutherland and Calhoun). Does Redmond get released again? Does Jordan keep his spot over XSF?

Williams - Jordan - Hopkins - Spain - Hart...XSF, Jonhson, Finney, Adeniji, Redmond, Price.

(10-31-2020, 10:58 AM)jfkbengals Wrote: could THIS be the moment that management realizes the importance of paying quality interior linemen?

This team still hasn't learned the value of scouts..
Not sure anything is going to change the Brown way of thinking about football topics no matter what happens.

(10-31-2020, 12:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The claim that the Bengals don't value O-line is ridiculous.  Bengals have always paid the O-line well.  Levi and Willie were the highest paid OT duo in the league.  We paid Whitworth well until he was 36.  We paid OG's Bobbie Williams and Clint Boling well and used a first round pick on OG Kevin Zeitler.   We have used a first round pick on O-line in 2 of our last 3 and 3 of our last 5 drafts.  We traded for the 8th highest paid OT in the league in 2018. 

Yes people tend to forget those important fact.

(10-31-2020, 10:58 AM)jfkbengals Wrote: I know that many want to see some of the backups play on the oline to see if they can protect Burrow better than the starter.

I agree with that sentiment to a degree, but would prefer it not be a wholesale change as too much can go wrong and expose the young man to serious injury.

With all of that said, if Joe lays and egg tomorrow due to relentless pressure and poor oline performances, could THIS be the moment that management realizes the importance of paying quality interior linemen?

The kid has taken a brutal beating this year from sub-par play.  Should the oline devolve even more, I think the light bulb might finally come on to know that significant resources are required to keep a QB upright so he can do his job.

(10-31-2020, 12:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The claim that the Bengals don't value O-line is ridiculous.  Bengals have always paid the O-line well.  Levi and Willie were the highest paid OT duo in the league.  We paid Whitworth well until he was 36.  We paid OG's Bobbie Williams and Clint Boling well and used a first round pick on OG Kevin Zeitler.   We have used a first round pick on O-line in 2 of our last 3 and 3 of our last 5 drafts.  We traded for the 8th highest paid OT in the league in 2018. 

The point of the post was about being cheap on the INTERIOR of the line, not about tackles.

Boling and Wiliiams both had very team friendly deals.

Zeitler was a first round pick who walked after his capped rookie deal was over because the team would not offer a deal commensurate with the rate of a top guard.  Pretty much the same thing happened with Eric Steinbach.

They continue to undervalue the interior of the line, and it keeps rearing its ugly head.

(10-31-2020, 07:39 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: The point of the post was about being cheap on the INTERIOR of the line, not about tackles.

Boling and Wiliiams both had very team friendly deals.

Zeitler was a first round pick who walked after his capped rookie deal was over because the team would not offer a deal commensurate with the rate of a top guard.  Pretty much the same thing happened with Eric Steinbach.

They continue to undervalue the interior of the line, and it keeps rearing its ugly head.

They keep hoping they will trip, fall and land on another Rich Braham. Miss that guy holding down the line.

Yes my view is that this is a blessing in disguise.And it appears to be that the coaching staff and/or FO sees how important Olinemen are and are trying very hard to try to improve it.At this point I at least have to give them an E for effort.Just wish they would have just went all out on this O-line way before now.Next up??? New DC.

(10-31-2020, 07:39 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: Boling and Wiliiams both had very team friendly deals.

Zeitler was a first round pick who walked after his capped rookie deal was over because the team would not offer a deal commensurate with the rate of a top guard.  Pretty much the same thing happened with Eric Steinbach.

They continue to undervalue the interior of the line, and it keeps rearing its ugly head.

I don't know what you mean by "team friendly".  Boling was a top ten paid OG and Williams was also paid well.

Steinbach walked because all five starters became free agents the same season,  They paid 4 of the five and let Steinbach walk because they had whit ready to take his spot.  Also Steinbach was overpaid by the Browns.

(10-31-2020, 08:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't know what you mean by "team friendly".  Boling was a top ten paid OG and Williams was also paid well.

Steinbach walked because all five starters became free agents the same season,  They paid 4 of the five and let Steinbach walk because they had whit ready to take his spot.  Also Steinbach was overpaid by the Browns.

This seems like it can't be true.

Spotrac decided to lock up past stuff behind membership now, so I can't see 2015 when he got the deal, but in 2017 he was the 25th OG in the NFL... I find it hard to believe he went from 10 to 25 in 2 years unless 1-9 was paid highly and then there was a MASSIVE gap after that before where Boling was.

Also he got $5.2m/yr (with only $2.5m signing bonus and $5m total guaranteed) and Kevin Zeitler got $12m/yr (with $12m signing bonus and $31.5m total guaranteed).... trying to portray Boling's contract as anything but team friendly is a foolish task.

If our defense is going to stay bottom third against the pass and bottom four(ish) against the run, then Joe should hand off the ball the rest of the season. No reason to risk him on this %*@& show. Just run the ball and use the free time we would have spent game planning on scouting a handful of defense picks and a couple linemen for next season.

The line is bad, but, honestly, it's probably not going to get better by who we have on the roster.