(11-03-2020, 11:26 AM)Whatever Wrote: Both stats are relevant.  If a guy catches 7 of 7 targets and gets you 15 yards, he didn't do a whole lot to help your team win.  Conversely, if a guy catches one of three targets, but that one catch is a 75 yard TD, he helped a lot.  7 of 7 is impressive, especially considering some of the catch difficulties.  However, what's better for your team, 65 yards on 7 targets or 54 yards on 3?  Don't see a lot of Mike Thomas threads, though.

The thing with AJ is that while his individual production has been disappointing, he is still drawing some double teams, which opens up the other guys.  He will also probably continue to see deep shots because we are severely lacking deep threats and we can't just become one dimensional and throw them all to Tee.  

I haven't downplayed any of Tate's catches from this past game.  He had several difficult grabs and made some great effort plays to get first downs.  However, the fact that people gushed about a 19;yard grab he made on a busted coverage is a joke.  That's like some serious pee wee football bench warmer dad stuff there.  Literally every other WR on the team has made tougher grabs than that with nowhere near the fanfare.

Seriously, I can play the "entrenched in your beliefs" card against Tate's fans just as easily, if not more so.  I didn't create upteenth million threads to tear him down like his fans have done to try and build him up.  I said he was a good #4/5 WR.  I didn't call him a high end #2 or compare him to greats like Rice and Boldin.  Of course, 8 weeks into the season with him looking exactly like what I said he was guys want to backtrack and say "Well, nobody said he was that great", but we were all in those off-season threads.

Mike Thomas drops the ball. Auden Tate doesnt.
Auden Tate is a better downfield blocker than Mike Thomas
Yes blocking is part of a WRs role in the offense.
What you fail to see in Tates game Sunday was how many
1st down catches he had of those 7 receptions.

(11-03-2020, 11:26 AM)Whatever Wrote: Both stats are relevant.  If a guy catches 7 of 7 targets and gets you 15 yards, he didn't do a whole lot to help your team win.  Conversely, if a guy catches one of three targets, but that one catch is a 75 yard TD, he helped a lot.  7 of 7 is impressive, especially considering some of the catch difficulties.  However, what's better for your team, 65 yards on 7 targets or 54 yards on 3?  Don't see a lot of Mike Thomas threads, though.

The thing with AJ is that while his individual production has been disappointing, he is still drawing some double teams, which opens up the other guys.  He will also probably continue to see deep shots because we are severely lacking deep threats and we can't just become one dimensional and throw them all to Tee.  

I haven't downplayed any of Tate's catches from this past game.  He had several difficult grabs and made some great effort plays to get first downs.  However, the fact that people gushed about a 19;yard grab he made on a busted coverage is a joke.  That's like some serious pee wee football bench warmer dad stuff there.  Literally every other WR on the team has made tougher grabs than that with nowhere near the fanfare.

Seriously, I can play the "entrenched in your beliefs" card against Tate's fans just as easily, if not more so.  I didn't create upteenth million threads to tear him down like his fans have done to try and build him up.  I said he was a good #4/5 WR.  I didn't call him a high end #2 or compare him to greats like Rice and Boldin.  Of course, 8 weeks into the season with him looking exactly like what I said he was guys want to backtrack and say "Well, nobody said he was that great", but we were all in those off-season threads.

Well, I never made such comparisons so you’ll have to address those that did on that. I do think he’s capable of being a #3 though. A guy that can give us Sanu type production (500-700 yds).

(11-03-2020, 02:02 AM)Whatever Wrote: Tate just had a 65 yard game and some are saying we should bench AJ Green for him. 

This is a real problem around here. Not so much what was said, because dumb things (in general) are going to be said around here pretty often.

The problem is, taking a quote without looking at who it came from and attributing to anyone who likes Tate. That happens a lot around here. A silly comment is made and then someone starts using it all the time like that's how everyone else thinks. 

Total BS. 

(11-03-2020, 11:26 AM)Whatever Wrote: Both stats are relevant.  If a guy catches 7 of 7 targets and gets you 15 yards, he didn't do a whole lot to help your team win. 

If my Aunt had a dick, she'd be my uncle...but she doesn't so she's not.
Five of Tates 7 catches went for first downs. I'd say that's pretty significant and not nearly the dishonesty you're trying to pass off here as an argument. 

(11-03-2020, 03:27 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: This is a real problem around here. Not so much what was said, because dumb things (in general) are going to be said around here pretty often.

The problem is, taking a quote without looking at who it came from and attributing to anyone who likes Tate. That happens a lot around here. A silly comment is made and then someone starts using it all the time like that's how everyone else thinks. 

Total BS. 

The post you quoted literally said "some people." By definition, that means I don't attribute that position to all of Tate's fans.

That leads us to an actual issue, though. People hit the point where they can't intelligently debate points and create strawman arguments to try and defend their position.  

(11-03-2020, 03:34 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: If my Aunt had a dick, she'd be my uncle...but she doesn't so she's not.
Five of Tates 7 catches went for first downs. I'd say that's pretty significant and not nearly the dishonesty you're trying to pass off here as an argument. 

Once again, you can't intelligently debate actual points, so you pull one line out of context from a discussion that has gone on for multiple posts between two parties, create a strawman argument, then knock it down.

You were saying something about total BS?

(11-03-2020, 04:22 PM)Whatever Wrote: The post you quoted literally said "some people." By definition, that means I don't attribute that position to all of Tate's fans.

If it's "some people", and that "some people" happens to be one or two people, and the comment isn't widely accepted as fact, why use it? 

(11-03-2020, 04:28 PM)Whatever Wrote: Once again, you can't intelligently debate actual points, so you pull one line out of context from a discussion that has gone on for multiple posts between two parties, create a strawman argument, then knock it down.

You were saying something about total BS?

You're starting to kind of talk out of your ass, mate. 

You minimized Tate's 7 catches. I pointed out that 5 of them resulted in first downs, which was pretty significant. <---Solid, intelligent point against what you said. 

I'm not sure where the hell you're coming up with this strawman junk. 

(11-03-2020, 05:44 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: If it's "some people", and that "some people" happens to be one or two people, and the comment isn't widely accepted as fact, why use it? 

Because it's factually true.  

Why can't we just say the 7th rounder is producing nicely? I mean, if you can get 400 yards or so out of a 7th rounder, that's pretty good, no?

(11-03-2020, 06:01 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You're starting to kind of talk out of your ass, mate. 

You minimized Tate's 7 catches. I pointed out that 5 of them resulted in first downs, which was pretty significant. <---Solid, intelligent point against what you said. 

I'm not sure where the hell you're coming up with this strawman junk. 

I didn't minimize Tate's 7 catches.  The larger discussion between Nicomo and I was that people are going gaga over a 65 yard receiving day.  Nicomo replied that 7 catches was the relevant stat, to which I replied both were relevant.  You don't think people would be as excited about the 7 catch, 15 yard performance in my example, do you?  I even gave him props for his extra effort and catch difficulty in the same paragraph, so yeah, I really minimized him. Is it "dishonest" to say that both catches and yards are important?  No, it isn't.

I wish Tate would deliver me a pizza...

It seems to me like Tate makes big time catches at big time moments. Thats a great thing to have. The dude is a monster out there and a mismatch to about any DB.

(11-03-2020, 06:48 PM)Wyche Wrote: Why can't we just say the 7th rounder is producing nicely? I mean, if you can get 400 yards or so out of a 7th rounder, that's pretty good, no?

If you can get 3 years on your roster out of a 7th rounder, I chalk that up as a win.

Tate had a good game Sunday.  Hopefully, he has a few more of those the second half of the season.

(11-02-2020, 05:15 PM)Au165 Wrote: I'd like to see more smash concepts in the red zone with him running the corner out of the slot, or a bench concept from a stack set. Similar ball placement to the fade on the corner but it gives him a better path to the ball and less chance of getting squeezed out of bounds.

I mentioned earlier in the year that anytime they're in the RZ, they should line up Tate, Higgins, AJ and Sample all 6'4 or taller. Let JoeyB "throw them open".

For which I got thoroughly and completely flamed to the point I had to turn off the computer and have my wife rub my back until I fell asleep...

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(11-02-2020, 05:22 PM)Whatever Wrote: But people say Tate turns 50/50 balls into 80/20 balls, so shouldn't he turn 30/70 balls into 60/40 balls?

Stop it. Nobody told me there would be math involved here. I'm completely over-whelmed and need a TO...

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(11-03-2020, 06:43 PM)Whatever Wrote: Because it's factually true.  

Come on man. Are you going to use facts or aren't you?

(11-03-2020, 07:00 PM)Whatever Wrote: I didn't minimize Tate's 7 catches.  The larger discussion between Nicomo and I was that people are going gaga over a 65 yard receiving day.  Nicomo replied that 7 catches was the relevant stat, to which I replied both were relevant.  You don't think people would be as excited about the 7 catch, 15 yard performance in my example, do you?  I even gave him props for his extra effort and catch difficulty in the same paragraph, so yeah, I really minimized him. Is it "dishonest" to say that both catches and yards are important?  No, it isn't.

Then, to get back to the topic...and facts. Is 5 first downs on 7 catches good?

(11-01-2020, 07:17 PM)Au165 Wrote: I actually thought after the catch was more impressive today than his acrobatics  for him as he was short twice and put his head down and rammed, and dove, for big 1st downs.

Yes, impressed me. Not going to hate on Tate, caught everything thrown to him but I loved how once he caught it he put his head 
down as you say and got big 1st downs for us. Might be time for an AJ trade if we can get something for him. Tate can do what AJ 
has done so far this year and is younger. Didn't think I would say this but could be true.

(11-03-2020, 06:48 PM)Wyche Wrote: Why can't we just say the 7th rounder is producing nicely? I mean, if you can get 400 yards or so out of a 7th rounder, that's pretty good, no?

Yes, that is pretty good.

Tate makes PFF team of the week.

Patrick Mahomes headlines PFF's Week 8 Offensive TOTW ? pic.twitter.com/4jgUB3Fzsu

— PFF (@PFF) November 3, 2020

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