(11-04-2020, 09:32 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Spain at LG and XFS at RG and it shouldn't even be a question.

Agree. 

So do I.

Don't complain then when the O-line doesn't get fixed over the off-season then.

(11-06-2020, 03:00 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: Don't complain then when the O-line doesn't get fixed over the off-season then.

But what if the OL does get fixed by season's end with Williams-Spain-Hopkins-XSF-Hart?
Wouldn't that be a good thing?

I think no matter what, RT needs to be fixed with an instant impact player.

Kudos to Hart for managing to not be the worst player on the line anymore. Maybe he can give us some value in a trade in the offseason.

As long as you have good-great tackle play, you can live with having average guards. Spain is good enough and hopefully, Jordan will keep developing into something more.

(11-06-2020, 04:47 PM)Whodey614 Wrote: I think no matter what, RT needs to be fixed with an instant impact player.

Kudos to Hart for managing to not be the worst player on the line anymore. Maybe he can give us some value in a trade in the offseason.

As long as you have good-great tackle play, you can live with having average guards. Spain is good enough and hopefully, Jordan will keep developing into something more.

He’s actually be a nice backup with his moderate salary and knowledge of the playbook.

(11-06-2020, 03:05 PM)ochocincos Wrote: But what if the OL does get fixed by season's end with Williams-Spain-Hopkins-XSF-Hart?
Wouldn't that be a good thing?

Define fixed though. Even at their best that’s a middle of the road offensive line. We need to give Burrow the best we possibly can, and 2/5 of those positions can easily be upgraded through free agency and the draft, and possibly even a third depending on who’s out there.

(11-06-2020, 08:09 PM)AlphaBengal Wrote: Define fixed though. Even at their best that’s a middle of the road offensive line. We need to give Burrow the best we possibly can, and 2/5 of those positions can easily be upgraded through free agency and the draft, and possibly even a third depending on who’s out there.

While there's room for improvement on the OL, the DL and LBs are in worse shape, especially if Lawson leaves. DBs will be in worse shape too if WJ3 leaves. Part of that is scheme though.

All I'm saying is they are averaging over 24 PPG this season with this below average OL, and they may actually get an improved OL by season's end once Williams, XSF, Hopkins, and Hart come back. Jordan actually has competition at LG now with Spain, so I hope they play the better of the two.
They've actually exceeded 30 points in half of their games.
If they had a halfway decent defense, they'd potentially have a winning record right now I believe.

So if you heavily invest in OL upgrades this offseason in FA+draft, you might not get the defensive upgrades you need, and ultimately end up in a worse position for 2021 from a record perspective.

Simply put Spain instantly became the best Guard on the active roster as soon as he signed, and it was ridiculously clear once he went on the field. It helped not only the LG spot but Center too as not having to cover for a black hole at LG was part of why Price had a really good game. While I would like a more balanced (good at both pass and run blocking) RT I can work with a line of Williams - Spain - Price/Hopkins -XSF - Hart.

However, we CANNOT work with the current stable of DL players. Assuming we get Tupou back and Reader back yes we are ok at Tackle but DE is pretty sad.

(11-08-2020, 09:51 PM)Joelist Wrote: Simply put Spain instantly became the best Guard on the active roster as soon as he signed, and it was ridiculously clear once he went on the field. It helped not only the LG spot but Center too as not having to cover for a black hole at LG was part of why Price had a really good game. While I would like a more balanced (good at both pass and run blocking) RT I can work with a line of Williams - Spain - Price/Hopkins -XSF - Hart.

However, we CANNOT work with the current stable of DL players. Assuming we get Tupou back and Reader back yes we are ok at Tackle but DE is pretty sad.

Exactly.

Even if Lawson re-signs, the DEs would be Lawson, Hubbard, Kareem, and Bledsoe.
Bengals need to get 1-2 new edge players in the offseason.

(11-08-2020, 09:57 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Exactly.

Even if Lawson re-signs, the DEs would be Lawson, Hubbard, Kareem, and Bledsoe.
Bengals need to get 1-2 new edge players in the offseason.

I also agree that the DL is the bigger priority than the OL, at this point in time.  The team has added enough supplementary talent on the OL to get the job done.  With improved health, continued reps together, they will continue to mold into a unit capable of executing more complicated blocking schemes.  

I see no need for the Bengals to spend a 1st or 2nd round pick on OL, unless a tremendous talent just happens to be sitting there when their name comes up.  So, shifting to DL, I'd like to see them land a great pass rusher in the 1st or 2nd.  I would stipulate 1st round, but if tremendous player at another position is sitting there in the 1st round, you'd almost be stupid to pass for need.

We still have holes in multiple spots (DE, LB, speed WR).

We have spots where we have low end starter level players but could use an upgrade (OT, OG, C, TE).

And we have spots where we could lose a significant player, or two in FA (CB, OG, DE, LB, WR, S). WJ3, Alexander, Spain, Lawson, Bynes, Green, and Williams are not world beaters, but they all start save for Shawn. We will need to replace them if they leave. Plus Daniels & Covington & Hunt on the DL.

Gonna be tough to fix that in one off-season. I'd target a premier OT FA. If we strike out, go for Thuney. It is not a super year for OTs, and picks #5-#15 seem a tad high for a guard. It ain't a great year for EDGE guys either.

Take the best player. Other than QB, RB, FS, and big WRs, and maybe DT (assuming Reader, Geno, Tupou back), we could use help everywhere.

Agree 100% that Spain should start at LG next week. If XSF can go at RG, he should start as well. Let Redmond and Jordan be the backups.

OT is the problem. If Hart & Williams cannot go & Johnson has COVID issues, Adeniji is our only OT on the roster.

Hopkins, Price, & Finney are C/G types. Sutherland is a G
Calhoun is a G on the PS. Am alI missing someone?

We have a lot of lineman who are significantly better at one thing than the other.

C: Price is a better run blocker. Hopkins a better pass blocker.

G: Redmond is a much better run blocker.

T: Seems like Hart is a better run blocker. Williams a better pass blocker (I think).

I wonder if situational line play should make a comeback. Guards used to rotate in every snap, relaying the play from the sideline. Center is tricker to rotate because of the snapping issue.

But situational line play could be a way to get Jordan more snaps.

(11-08-2020, 11:54 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: We have a lot of lineman who are significantly better at one thing than the other.

C: Price is a better run blocker. Hopkins a better pass blocker.

G: Redmond is a much better run blocker.

T: Seems like Hart is a better run blocker. Williams a better pass blocker (I think).

I wonder if situational line play should make a comeback. Guards used to rotate in every snap, relaying the play from the sideline. Center is tricker to rotate because of the snapping issue.

But situational line play could be a way to get Jordan more snaps.

Correct on these.

Spain is also a good pass blocker.

Given the offense is more of a passing offense (57.46%), pass blocking would seem more important than run blocking at the moment.

It's worth noting that while Hart was definitely not good pass blocking early in the season, he's improved as the season has gone on.
BJ Finney has also been a rather good pass blocker on the limited snaps he's played in SEA.

So if the Bengals start all of Williams, Spain, Hopkins, XSF, and Hart, they would have decent-or-better pass blockers at every position.
You could rotate in Price and Jordan on obvious run situations if/when you wanted.

(11-08-2020, 10:28 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I also agree that the DL is the bigger priority than the OL, at this point in time.  The team has added enough supplementary talent on the OL to get the job done.  With improved health, continued reps together, they will continue to mold into a unit capable of executing more complicated blocking schemes.  

I see no need for the Bengals to spend a 1st or 2nd round pick on OL, unless a tremendous talent just happens to be sitting there when their name comes up.  So, shifting to DL, I'd like to see them land a great pass rusher in the 1st or 2nd.  I would stipulate 1st round, but if tremendous player at another position is sitting there in the 1st round, you'd almost be stupid to pass for need.

I see the best value for pass rusher as being in the late 1st and through the 2nd round.
If the Bengals are picking in top half of the round, I would expect 1st round to be offense or a CB, then a DL in Rd 2.
I'd also look to re-sign Lawson or sign an outside FA for edge so that we don't have to put a ton of pressure on the drafted DL to start immediately and play a majority of snaps.

(11-08-2020, 11:49 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Agree 100% that Spain should start at LG next week. If XSF can go at RG, he should start as well. Let Redmond and Jordan be the backups.

OT is the problem. If Hart & Williams cannot go & Johnson has COVID issues, Adeniji is our only OT on the roster.

Hopkins, Price, & Finney are C/G types. Sutherland is a G
Calhoun is a G on the PS. Am alI missing someone?

The Bengals are lacking OT depth right now. Most teams don't get down 3 OTs at a time though, so this is not normal.
They need to have an OT on the PS for situations like this.
Perhaps they can get Dugas back to the PS, who has familiarity with the scheme.

(11-08-2020, 10:28 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I also agree that the DL is the bigger priority than the OL, at this point in time.  The team has added enough supplementary talent on the OL to get the job done.  With improved health, continued reps together, they will continue to mold into a unit capable of executing more complicated blocking schemes.  

I see no need for the Bengals to spend a 1st or 2nd round pick on OL, unless a tremendous talent just happens to be sitting there when their name comes up.  So, shifting to DL, I'd like to see them land a great pass rusher in the 1st or 2nd.  I would stipulate 1st round, but if tremendous player at another position is sitting there in the 1st round, you'd almost be stupid to pass for need.

Thinking the same thing, need to get some pass rushers in here and bring Lawson back.

We can add a OT in FA to protect Burrow, preferably one that is versatile and can pass and run block.

Spain is proof that you should get proven players rather than gambling on the OL in the Draft.

Add to the O-line but do not rely on it in the Draft, more likely to get that pass rusher there these days.

(11-08-2020, 11:49 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Agree 100% that Spain should start at LG next week. If XSF can go at RG, he should start as well. Let Redmond and Jordan be the backups.

OT is the problem. If Hart & Williams cannot go & Johnson has COVID issues, Adeniji is our only OT on the roster.

Hopkins, Price, & Finney are C/G types. Sutherland is a G
Calhoun is a G on the PS. Am alI missing someone?

I think Sutherland would be the 5th OT, he played it in college and has some time there in preseason/practice. One other thing as a possibility is Hopkins who started out as an OT, Price takes over at C in the meantime.

(11-09-2020, 05:31 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Thinking the same thing, need to get some pass rushers in here and bring Lawson back.

We can add a OT in FA to protect Burrow, preferably one that is versatile and can pass and run block.

Spain is proof that you should get proven players rather than gambling on the OL in the Draft.

Add to the O-line but do not rely on it in the Draft, more likely to get that pass rusher there these days.

I agree with that part, to a point.  You have to continue to draft and develop OL, but also know when it's time to add a proven veteran to bridge the gap.  Adding a FA or two here and there is a necessary evil, but you really don't want to build your entire OL that way, as it will eat up a ton of cap space.  And, if you go all cheapo FAs on a critical unit like OL, it can turn out worse than drafting poorly.  Those are just my thoughts on the subject.