I, for one, am a fan of Pratt. He has shown to be a good coverage linebacker and has proven himself at times in the run defense. Logan Wilson and ADG show promise. Considering our defensive problems are eerily consistent over the past two seasons with different personnel, Lou needs more attention. My take has to do with how the defense lines up against the offense - the backside b-gap has been an issue and we favor the strong side too much - I would rather risk giving up some plays than to be consistently taken advantage of in the same way.

(11-10-2020, 03:18 AM)willieFANderson Wrote: I, for one, am a fan of Pratt. He has shown to be a good coverage linebacker and has proven himself at times in the run defense. Logan Wilson and ADG show promise. Considering our defensive problems are eerily consistent over the past two seasons with different personnel, Lou needs more attention. My take has to do with how the defense lines up against the offense - the backside b-gap has been an issue and we favor the strong side too much - I would rather risk giving up some plays than to be consistently taken advantage of in the same way.

He doesn't have his top 3 NT's(Reader, Wren, Tippy).  His top 2 UT's have been playing hurt. Both starting edges are either injured or traded due to half assing it.

(11-10-2020, 10:55 AM)Whatever Wrote: He doesn't have his top 3 NT's(Reader, Wren, Tippy).  His top 2 UT's have been playing hurt. Both starting edges are either injured or traded due to half assing it.

While true, they were all mostly healthy last year and were last in the league stopping the run.
While they didn't have Reader, they had Billings, who was pretty solid.

They also would be worse at stopping the run this year if teams were running it more, but they are having to pass more because the Bengals offense is actually scoring points and keeping it competitive.

2019:
504 rushing attempts (31.5 per game)
2382 rush yards allowed (148.875 per game)
4.726 yards per carry

2020 (8 gms):
220 rushing attempts (27.5 per game)
1154 rush yards allowed (144.25 per game)
5.245 yards per carry

(11-10-2020, 11:24 AM)ochocincos Wrote: While true, they were all mostly healthy last year and were last in the league stopping the run.
While they didn't have Reader, they had Billings, who was pretty solid.

They also would be worse at stopping the run this year if teams were running it more, but they are having to pass more because the Bengals offense is actually scoring points and keeping it competitive.

2019:
504 rushing attempts (31.5 per game)
2382 rush yards allowed (148.875 per game)
4.726 yards per carry

2020 (8 gms):
220 rushing attempts (27.5 per game)
1154 rush yards allowed (144.25 per game)
5.245 yards per carry

Last year, they were tied for 22nd in rushing yards allowed per attempt. They gave up a ton more yards because teams could just grind it out on then, as you said.  This year, they are dead last in rushing yards allowed per attempt.

The killer is, they also allowed 4.7 ypc in '18 with Marvin/Austin, same as they did in '19.  That would indicate that it is more of a personnel issue than a scheme issue.

I think you're partially right. The run defense problems stem from the defense's inability to tackle. I think that's partially a coaching issue. But, ultimately, Anarumo bears the responsibility for how the defense performs.

(11-10-2020, 11:56 AM)Whatever Wrote: Last year, they were tied for 22nd in rushing yards allowed per attempt. They gave up a ton more yards because teams could just grind it out on then, as you said.  This year, they are dead last in rushing yards allowed per attempt.

The killer is, they also allowed 4.7 ypc in '18 with Marvin/Austin, same as they did in '19.  That would indicate that it is more of a personnel issue than a scheme issue.

You have to go back to 2016 ? I believe it is ? To find decent defensive numbers for this team. I don't doubt for a second that Lou is not the best coach. But I believe personnel as you say has been a big issue as well.

(11-10-2020, 11:56 AM)Whatever Wrote: Last year, they were tied for 22nd in rushing yards allowed per attempt. They gave up a ton more yards because teams could just grind it out on then, as you said.  This year, they are dead last in rushing yards allowed per attempt.

The killer is, they also allowed 4.7 ypc in '18 with Marvin/Austin, same as they did in '19.  That would indicate that it is more of a personnel issue than a scheme issue.

Could be. The last time the Bengals had a respectable run defense, Peko was the NT and MJ was the RDE, which was in 2016.
We know both of those guys were good against the run.

Bottom line is Lou needs to go after this season, if he doesn't then Zack should take the fall for not holding his coaches accountable. This guy was a last minute choice and it shows...

They should be doing their homework now...

(11-10-2020, 10:55 AM)Whatever Wrote: He doesn't have his top 3 NT's(Reader, Wren, Tippy).  His top 2 UT's have been playing hurt. Both starting edges are either injured or traded due to half assing it.

I was looking forward to seeing Wren take that next step into the defensive front. He was a big loss in a crucial rebuild year.

(11-10-2020, 01:11 PM)GodFather Wrote: Bottom line is Lou needs to go after this season, if he doesn't then Zack should take the fall for not holding his coaches accountable. This guy was a last minute choice and it shows...

They should be doing their homework now...

100% agree. Anarumo had a very weak resume when he was hired, so there was a lot of talk that Taylor was just hiring buddies or yes men. 

How they react after this season will be telling. That said, it's also Mike's call, and he's been loathe to replace coaches this soon in the past.

..and yes I know we replaced Zampese after a short time. 

(11-10-2020, 12:03 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I think you're partially right. The run defense problems stem from the defense's inability to tackle. I think that's partially a coaching issue. But, ultimately, Anarumo bears the responsibility for how the defense performs.

Agreed. Whatever the issue, unless it's 100% who is on the roster (and I don't think it is) it's ultimately the coach.

A huge problem with the run D is LBs not filling the right gap or getting easily pushed out of the play. That's the #1 problem. The other problem is tackling. 

I'm more concerned with the pass Defense then the run defense. Were on pace for just 22 sacks this season. The last 3 games have been horrendous in particular ( especially after the great start we had).

(11-10-2020, 06:46 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: A huge problem with the run D is LBs not filling the right gap or getting easily pushed out of the play. That's the #1 problem. The other problem is tackling. 

Agree 100% been watching coach film of the defense all year and their biggest problem is confusion on where to be before snap and tackling after the snap..They can both be corrected is the silver lining.  

(11-10-2020, 06:46 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: A huge problem with the run D is LBs not filling the right gap or getting easily pushed out of the play. That's the #1 problem. The other problem is tackling. 

It's not just the linebackers the inexperienced interior defensive linemen are not filling their run fits either. A few weeks ago I remember 2 linemen and a linebacker all 3 attacking the same gap lol.

(11-10-2020, 03:18 AM)willieFANderson Wrote: I, for one, am a fan of Pratt. He has shown to be a good coverage linebacker and has proven himself at times in the run defense. Logan Wilson and ADG show promise. Considering our defensive problems are eerily consistent over the past two seasons with different personnel, Lou needs more attention. My take has to do with how the defense lines up against the offense - the backside b-gap has been an issue and we favor the strong side too much - I would rather risk giving up some plays than to be consistently taken advantage of in the same way.

#1.  I would not change any coaches after Covid season in Zacs 2nd season...In Your Hearts, You Know I'm Right--Barry Goldwater.   
#2.  We don't have the players at D Line or O Line.   I'm glad the draft of Williams, Burrow, Higgins early by Zac.  Still more out with the old Marvin and in with the new players in 2021 Draft.  

We always say we have the players, it must be coaching.  THE FACT is we DON'T have the players.  Not yet, but we will and soon. 

#3. Bengals have played everybody tough but Ravens in 2020
#4.  Again factor in no preseason and new coaches rebuild was in dire need of preseason. 

From what I see, Bengals need D Line and O Line in first 2 rounds with as many picks in first 2 rounds they can get.  I think they will have TOP 5 Pick or close to it.  Trade down to a team wanting to move up to take a TOP 5 PICK QB, WR or RB....Then grab at least 3 picks in round 1 and 2 for help at D Line and O Line and maybe a Monster LB.  Pick 3 will be high like a 2 also, so we should get 4 Studs in Trenches this way.  I like the sound of headline, Bengals Get Tough In The Trenches In Draft.   

#5.  Atkins and Dunlap were great, but the window has closed on that era of Dalton, Green, Atkins, Dunlap....Don't cry, the team is already making changes with Burrow, Higgins, Boyd...Now changes needed on D Line and more O Line help and a LB....Build new team of Roaring 20's around Burrow...Do not load up with old dudes like Tampa 2020 or as Oakland did in early 2010's....When in doubt, go with youth.  

GO BENGALS

(11-10-2020, 06:46 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: A huge problem with the run D is LBs not filling the right gap or getting easily pushed out of the play. That's the #1 problem. The other problem is tackling. 

Both of which I feel like falls on the coaches. Blown assignments and missed tackles are fundamentals. The basics. If your guys can’t do that something is wrong. They obviously know how to do it because they did it in college. You don’t just forget to wrap a guy up or what your assignment is in the defense.

If it’s a one or two player thing, that’s a different story. But the fact that all these guys aren’t wrapping up and there are blown assignments all over the field proves to me that we’re lacking in the coaching department defensively.

(11-10-2020, 08:18 PM)kevin Wrote: #1.  I would not change any coaches after Covid season in Zacs 2nd season...In Your Hearts, You Know I'm Right--Barry Goldwater.   
#2.  We don't have the players at D Line or O Line.   I'm glad the draft of Williams, Burrow, Higgins early by Zac.  Still more out with the old Marvin and in with the new players in 2021 Draft.  

We always say we have the players, it must be coaching.  THE FACT is we DON'T have the players.  Not yet, but we will and soon. 

#3. Bengals have played everybody tough but Ravens in 2020
#4.  Again factor in no preseason and new coaches rebuild was in dire need of preseason. 

From what I see, Bengals need D Line and O Line in first 2 rounds with as many picks in first 2 rounds they can get.  I think they will have TOP 5 Pick or close to it.  Trade down to a team wanting to move up to take a TOP 5 PICK QB, WR or RB....Then grab at least 3 picks in round 1 and 2 for help at D Line and O Line and maybe a Monster LB.  Pick 3 will be high like a 2 also, so we should get 4 Studs in Trenches this way.  I like the sound of headline, Bengals Get Tough In The Trenches In Draft.   

#5.  Atkins and Dunlap were great, but the window has closed on that era of Dalton, Green, Atkins, Dunlap....Don't cry, the team is already making changes with Burrow, Higgins, Boyd...Now changes needed on D Line and more O Line help and a LB....Build new team of Roaring 20's around Burrow...Do not load up with old dudes like Tampa 2020 or as Oakland did in early 2010's....When in doubt, go with youth.  

GO BENGALS

1. I'd change a lot of things... Covid be damned.

2. You're right... We need to nail it in the next draft. I think we did pretty well in 2020. I see 2 future stars and at the very least a future starter at LB.

3. Everybody plays everybody tough... We need to quit hangin' our hats on that.

4. Nobody had a preseason.

5. Hell no... If we're picking that high get the best playmaking pass rusher available, and call it a day. Sign O line help. We don't have time to develop the whole damn roster. Tick tock on Burrow's rookie contract... Tick tock.

(11-10-2020, 05:32 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 100% agree. Anarumo had a very weak resume when he was hired, so there was a lot of talk that Taylor was just hiring buddies or yes men. 

How they react after this season will be telling. That said, it's also Mike's call, and he's been loathe to replace coaches this soon in the past.

..and yes I know we replaced Zampese after a short time. 

Austin didn’t get long either.

(11-10-2020, 11:41 PM)jason Wrote: 1. I'd change a lot of things... Covid be damned.

2. You're right... We need to nail it in the next draft. I think we did pretty well in 2020. I see 2 future stars and at the very least a future starter at LB.

3. Everybody plays everybody tough... We need to quit hangin' our hats on that.

4. Nobody had a preseason.

5. Hell no... If we're picking that high get the best playmaking pass rusher available, and call it a day. Sign O line help. We don't have time to develop the whole damn roster. Tick tock on Burrow's rookie contract... Tick tock.

I'll put your 1 and 4 together.   The Bengals were just awful in 2018 and all coaches fired.  In 2019 new coaches but you have to give them some years to bring in new players and replace the awful Bengals players. 2020 draft of Burrow and Higgins.   BUT THE LAST PLACE REBUILDING BENGALS NEEDED PRESEASON MORE THAN TEAMS LIKE SUPER BOWL CHIEFS.  So you can't say " Nobody had a preseason" and use that as a reason to fire coaches, because not all teams are in a complete rebuild like Bengals.   In a Rebuild you need preseason more, so you can't say " Covid be damned ".  

Your #3 is wrong.  Every team has NOT played everybody tough.  The Bengals have only had one bad game in Rebuild 2020, at Ravens who are a play-off team that did not need preseason.  The Bengals are playing better than 2019 or 2018.   Boomer Esiason and other announcers saying The Future Looks Bright For Bengals.   Nobody was saying that in 2019, 2018 or 2017.   So hats or no hats to hang, The Rebuild is taking shape, and the Bengals are playing teams closer than they did the last 3 years.  

On #5,  there really is no pass rusher slated to be a TOP 5 Pick at this time.  Mostly QBs and WR in TOP 5.   Teams will be dying to move up to get a QB or WR in TOP 5,  and Bengals could trade down, get a lower Round 1 and hopefully an extra Round 2, and we will have an early 3 like a 2....So with a Round 1, Two picks in Round 2 and a Pick in 3 around pick 70,  Bengals should be able to load up on TOP TALENT at DL, LB, OL. and get Tough In The Trenches. 

I agree with you on #2...We agree.  The Bengals have to NAIL THE DRAFT....They stink in the Trenches, not due to coaching, but lack of talent.  We have some pretty lousy O Line and D Line players only in NFL because Bengals had to bring in whoever they could. The O Line Blocking and Front 7 Defense needs an Upgrade of talent in the 2020 draft.  4 picks by pick 70 should help greatly. For example : Pick 15, Pick 37, Pick 50, Pick 69....That should fill the O Line and D Line with talent and a LB.

In the end we both like our Bengals.  I just feel that in the complete Rebuild, the last thing we needed was this screwy Covid season of 2020.  These new coaches have only had the 2019 preseason and 2 drafts.  I say the coaches need more time than that to rebuild this team.  Boomer and other announcers like how Bengals are starting to look, and I agree.....Keep the coaches, get more new players in The Draft.