(11-11-2020, 11:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As to the Dunlap trade being dumb:

You cannot call it after one week; that's just an opinion

But things we do know:

The first game we played after we traded him we won and dominated one of the better teams in the NFL.

The first game he played with his new team the opposing QB threw for over 400 yards and 4 total TDs in a game his team was favored to win.

I'm assuming you didn't like the Dunlap trade when it happened and now are searching for a "see how smart I am" but it's not there yet.

The team needed a rush DE, they got rid of an old expensive one and picked up a younger cheap one, while getting some extra shit. The Dunlap trade made Takk in the running for us. 

We gave up 441 yards ourselves and 218 of those were on the ground. It's not like trading him made us any better.  

(11-11-2020, 09:32 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Ok sometimes I question how I don’t know some things, but I have no idea who this guy is. First round pick? Was he that big of a bust?

Didn't justify his first round billing. Had 17.5 sacks in 49 career games.

His PFF grades are
2020 - 69.8
2019 - 67.0
2018 - 61.5
2017 - 67.5

I think he could be the type of player that could be a very nice pick-up if you can find him a role that plays to his strengths. If not, he costs them under a million. Well worth rolling the dice on.

(11-11-2020, 10:00 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: This is so weird seeing your team actually do stuff.

This never happened with Lewis haha.

Nah, they picked up a whole load of former 1st round talents on the cheap who hadn't worked out elsewhere for one reason or another under Lewis. Mainly on D - Pacman, Reggie Nelson, Terrence Newman, Jason Allen, Roy Williams and some others I can't immediately recall but also Cedric Benson on O.

Some worked, some didn't but overall I think it was a successful strategy of adding talent. It's low risk, but potentially high reward.

(11-11-2020, 11:25 PM)J24 Wrote: We gave up 441 yards ourselves and 218 of those were on the ground. It's not like trading him made us any better.  

Playing like we didn't get any better by beating a 1 loss team while being a 1 win team aside:

We didn't get any worse and Seattle didn't get any better. 

(11-11-2020, 11:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As to the Dunlap trade being dumb:

You cannot call it after one week; that's just an opinion

But things we do know:

The first game we played after we traded him we won and dominated one of the better teams in the NFL.

The first game he played with his new team the opposing QB threw for over 400 yards and 4 total TDs in a game his team was favored to win.

I'm assuming you didn't like the Dunlap trade when it happened and now are searching for a "see how smart I am" but it's not there yet.

The team needed a rush DE, they got rid of an old expensive one and picked up a younger cheap one, while getting some extra shit. The Dunlap trade made Takk in the running for us. 

Things we do know:

The Team is 1-1 and averaging 32.5 points per game without Joe Mixon.

The Team is 1-4-1 and averaging 21.5 points per game with Joe Mixon.

See? I can make stupid player-rather-than-team "things we know" things too.

So either you're operating on some faulty logic because it's a game where you pit two 53 man rosters against each other and you can't point out a single non-QB player to be the reason an entire team does well or poorly, OR you're saying Carlos Dunlap has magical W/L powers that negate the other 52 players on whatever team he is on.

They added this kid because Margus Hunt got COVID. This kid is not part of the Dunlap trade. It happened two weeks later, and no amount of attempted "see how smart I am" moments by you is going to negate that fact.

The Hunt COVID made Takk in the running for the Bengals. Dunlap had nothing to do with it. They've been adding and playing PS guys to the roster all season long, and this kid is making a little over $400k for the rest of the season. He'd be here Dunlap or no. That's what happens when you have just 11 sacks in 8 games as a team and any 1 sack player would be tied for 2nd place on your team.

I hope he’s ok with playing in Cincy. Since the draft, he’s talked about wanting to play close to home, Oakland. That was one of his issues with Atlanta. Finding out SF put in a claim on him and then he ends up in Ohio, probably isn’t going to help.

I don’t think playing for a contract is going to motivate him to be great here, he was in the same scenario in Atlanta and it didn’t motivate him there.

(11-12-2020, 12:00 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Things we do know:

The Team is 1-1 and averaging 32.5 points per game without Joe Mixon.

The Team is 1-4-1 and averaging 21.5 points per game with Joe Mixon.

See? I can make stupid player-rather-than-team "things we know" things too.

So either you're operating on some faulty logic because it's a game where you pit two 53 man rosters against each other and you can't point out a single non-QB player to be the reason an entire team does well or poorly, OR you're saying Carlos Dunlap has magical W/L powers that negate the other 52 players on whatever team he is on.

They added this kid because Margus Hunt got COVID. This kid is not part of the Dunlap trade. It happened two weeks later, and no amount of attempted "see how smart I am" moments by you is going to negate that fact.

The Hunt COVID made Takk in the running for the Bengals. Dunlap had nothing to do with it. They've been adding and playing PS guys to the roster all season long, and this kid is making a little over $400k for the rest of the season. He'd be here Dunlap or no. That's what happens when you have just 11 sacks in 8 games as a team and any 1 sack player would be tied for 2nd place on your team.

So you know things that have nothing to do with the Carlos Dunlap trade.

But we can agree you can make stupid things too.

How much money did putting Hunt on Covid save us?

How much money did trading Dunlap save us?

So yeah, parting ways with Carlos made getting Takk more feasible.

You have 0 idea if he would be here if Carlos was here or not. It appeared Carlos was not a fan of other DEs on this team. 

(11-12-2020, 12:06 AM)bfine32 Wrote: So you know things that have nothing to do with the Carlos Dunlap trade.

But we can agree you can make stupid things too.

How much money did putting Hunt on Covid save us?

How much money did trading Dunlap save us?

So yeah, parting ways with Carlos made getting Takk more feasible.

You have 0 idea if he would be here if Carlos was here or not. It appeared Carlos was not a fan of other DEs on this team. 

Just keep in mind those stupid things I made were a direct copy of your nonsense.

You have 0 idea if he wouldn't be here if Carlos was here or not. So considering it as part of a trade that happened 2 weeks earlier is a stupid premise.

The Bengals already had ~$9m in cap space before the Dunlap trade. $400k wasn't going to sway it one way or the other.

They actually didn't save a ton on Dunlap this year. He's still hitting the Bengals on $6.2m in dead cap money, and the Bengals took on BJ Finney's $1.5m this year in exchange.

The Bengals never needed to save money to add a $400k player. They just needed a roster spot, which putting Hunt on the COVID list provided and happened less than 48 hours to this move.

Let's remember that the PPG shot up also because we FINALLY largely ditched the empty backfield stuff and had Gio (the best blitz pickup and pass protect back in football) back there with Burrow. Also we had a huge upgrade at LG drop into our laps with Spain.

Dunlap needed to go as he was just being a malcontent. If all Takk does is play with a good attitude and really give 100% we are ahead of where we were.

I just hope he can help.

My God man, you see some of the absolute dumbest arguments started on this board for no reason. Now 4 pages about a technicality of what we flipped Dunlap for.

I like the pickup. We needed some help, low risk move IMO.

We need help rushing the passer and Takk has 17.5 sacks in 4 seasons compared to Hunt's 7.5 sacks in 8 seasons. This is a good mid-season move no doubt. A change of scenery might do him good.

Dunlap shmunlap. He didnt want to be a Bengal or he would be. It's addition by subtraction for players that dont want to play on their team. I'm over it. We have Takk now so Wecome Takkarist McKinley

Mike Daniels will let this guy know what it is. I really like having him around this year. INTENSITY!!

Getting thrown into a group with Lawson, Hubbard, and Bledsoe could end up getting something to click for Takk. Lawson Hubbard and Takk are all the same age. Bledsoe a few years behind.

Fresh start. Come in and get it going. Have some fun.

(11-11-2020, 10:00 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: This is so weird seeing your team actually do stuff.

This never happened with Lewis haha.

If by "stuff" you mean only win 4 times in 24 games then, yeah, you are right.  This never happened when Marvin was here.

But here are some things that did happen when Marvin was here.

In 2008 we signed Cedric Benson a month into the season and after starting 0-6 we finished 4-5-1 in the games he started.

In 2007 we signed Dhani Jones 3 weeks into the season and after starting 2-6 we finished 5-3 when we inserted him into the starting line up.

After giving up 71 points in the first two games of the 2012 season we signed Wallace Gilberry and ended up with the #8 scoring defense in the league,

In 2008 we signed Chris Crocker in November and after starting 1-8-1 we finished 3-3 in games he started.

In 2009 we signed RB Larry Johnson in November and when Benson went down with an injury he stepped in and rushed for over 100 yards in a win against the Browns.

(11-11-2020, 09:00 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Why not add Quinton Spain and Brian Allen onto the trade too, then? It's just as related to the Dunlap trade (as in not at all).

Don't try to polish a turd. It was a bad trade, but it was a trade that had to happen due to the circumstances at the time. Don't get to add on waiver wire claims two weeks later to try to make it look better.

I think that calling it a bad trade is false. I see it as an awesome trade! 

Bengals Get
- O Line help, sorely needed, from a player who is a significant upgrade from what is on the roster.
- 7th Round Pick
- Salary to spend next year

Bengals Gave
- Grossly underperforming player who had turned selfish once daddy (Marvin) left and no longer fit the Bengals scheme.

This off-season, when asked how he's managed to make it this long in the league, Carlos told Dan Hoard in an interview that he took care of his body off the field and "made business decisions on the field". Meaning: Doesn't stick his nose in it to avoid injury and takes plays off. Just goes for sacks and batted balls, not stopping the run or keeping his assignment. Dave Lapham, after the trade, crapped all over him for it in a recap w Hoard and said the coaches were furious. Even Hoard, normally incredibly kind in his assessment of the players, admitted that he was shocked at it and was disappointed Carlos had become that kind of player.

I am psyched that the coaches and management didn't baby him or put up with it. F that guy. What a way to flame out.

Not everything in life has to be connected or premeditated. Takk just represents FO picking up a player with value. It doesn't have to say anything about Dunlap, Hunt or any personnel move. Takk is 25, has averaged around 6 sacks a year and although he hasnt matched his draft position, he is still solid and young. When you are top of the waiver claim list, you have to use it.

(11-12-2020, 04:31 AM)BritishBengal Wrote: Not everything in life has to be connected or premeditated. Takk just represents FO picking up a player with value. It doesn't have to say anything about Dunlap, Hunt or any personnel move. Takk is 25, has averaged around 6 sacks a year and although he hasnt matched his draft position, he is still solid and young. When you are top of the waiver claim list, you have to use it.

We actually aren’t the top waiver claim anymore. Once you get so far into the season it goes by record. So he surprisingly made it by about 10 teams without being claimed. There were other claims put in though, including SF, where I could end up seeing him going next season since he’s from Oakland.

(11-12-2020, 01:39 AM)bengaloo Wrote: Dunlap shmunlap. He didnt want to be a Bengal or he would be. 

This.


Does not matter if you blame him or the coaches he had to go.  

(11-12-2020, 02:57 AM)fredtoast Wrote: If by "stuff" you mean only win 4 times in 24 games then, yeah, you are right.  This never happened when Marvin was here.

But here are some things that did happen when Marvin was here.

In 2008 we signed Cedric Benson a month into the season and after starting 0-6 we finished 4-5-1 in the games he started.

In 2007 we signed Dhani Jones 3 weeks into the season and after starting 2-6 we finished 5-3 when we inserted him into the starting line up.

After giving up 71 points in the first two games of the 2012 season we signed Wallace Gilberry and ended up with the #8 scoring defense in the league,

In 2008 we signed Chris Crocker in November and after starting 1-8-1 we finished 3-3 in games he started.

In 2009 we signed RB Larry Johnson in November and when Benson went down with an injury he stepped in and rushed for over 100 yards in a win against the Browns.

That's 5 examples in the span on 16 years. We've done it 5 times now in one season (Mike Daniels, Xavier Williams, Margus Hunt, Quinton Spain, Takk McKinley).

And, for the record, by "stuff" I mean a fairly prominent player gets cut or released or reaches free agency, you know how we act. There are 3 threads saying we should sign this person by the end of the day. But we all knew it was never going to happen. Then another team signs them and, sometimes, they go on to do pretty well for their new team making us, as fans, feel like our front office isn't even really trying to win.

It's nice to see the front office identifying a problem and trying to fix it in season, injury or no. Rather than wait for the off season and then maybe re-sign our own guys but very rarely anyone of consequence from other teams in free agency. And then we get told why we can't afford our top free agent who is leaving for another team because we have to roll money over to the next year for whatever reason.

Has the Taylor era been as successful as the Lewis era? Not yet. It may never be (which would be sad, but it's realistic at this point), but at least Taylor era spends money on new players rather than always relying on the draft and building internally, even when what you have internally isn't working.

(11-12-2020, 03:58 AM)PDub80 Wrote: This off-season, when asked how he's managed to make it this long in the league, Carlos told Dan Hoard in an interview that he took care of his body off the field and "made business decisions on the field". Meaning: Doesn't stick his nose in it to avoid injury and takes plays off. Just goes for sacks and batted balls, not stopping the run or keeping his assignment.

This is 100% bullshit.  Throughout his career Dunlap was always very good against the run.

Not every player that is durable takes plays off.  And Dunlap did not get selected to PFF All-Decade team by taking plays off.

"One of the most underrated players of his generation, Carlos Dunlap has been a consistently excellent player in the NFL for the entire decade," PFF analyst Sam Monson wrote "Drafted in 2010, Dunlap has never had an overall PFF grade below 70.0. That comes on the back of nine straight seasons with 45 or more total pressures, topping out with 80 back in 2015 when he, along with most of the Bengals, enjoyed career seasons. Dunlap has been an impressive run defender and pass rusher"

(11-12-2020, 09:48 AM)fredtoast Wrote: This is 100% bullshit.  Throughout his career Dunlap was always very good against the run.

Not every player that is durable takes plays off.  And Dunlap did not get selected to PFF All-Decade team by taking plays off.

"One of the most underrated players of his generation, Carlos Dunlap has been a consistently excellent player in the NFL for the entire decade," PFF analyst Sam Monson wrote "Drafted in 2010, Dunlap has never had an overall PFF grade below 70.0. That comes on the back of nine straight seasons with 45 or more total pressures, topping out with 80 back in 2015 when he, along with most of the Bengals, enjoyed career seasons. Dunlap has been an impressive run defender and pass rusher"

It's amazing how some of us have rewritten history when it comes to Dunlap. Apparently he was a lazy, greedy, selfish, locker room cancer the entire time he was here.