From PFF_Bengals on Twitter:

Quote:#Bengals OL grades vs PIT:

Trey Hopkins: 72.8
Hakeem Adeniji: 60.0
Quinton Spain: 58.7
Alex Redmond: 52.9
Michael Jordan: 49.0

Adeniji and Spain did decent given one is a rookie 6th round pick and the other is used to playing OG.

They had ability to play Price and/or Finney instead of Redmond/Jordan, but they chose to stick with Redmond and Jordan anyway.
When I mention Price, I don't mean put him at OG. I would have put Price at C and move Hopkins to LG or RG.

How long is it going to take before the Bengals realize that Redmond and Jordan just are not good and shouldn't be starting?
Do you think they replace one or both of them once Williams, XSF, and/or Hart are back?

They really feel like Jordan has a high ceiling and they want him to play as long as he is healthy. Don’t be surprised to see him starting over all 3 of those players when they return

(11-16-2020, 04:54 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: They really feel like Jordan has a high ceiling and they want him to play as long as he is healthy. Don’t be surprised to see him starting over all 3 of those players when they return

He may have a high ceiling, but how long will it take to get there? For the past 1.5 seasons, he's been arguably the worst starter.

I hope they lock up Quinton Spain this offseason for a couple years. I'll get to add a new WVU to Bengals Jersey that I'll never wear.

Unless he's getting Burrow killed (and he wasn't), I want to see them run Jordan out at G for the next few games so we know what we have with him and whether we need to invest in G this off-season.

Other than Spain, who I'd see at the other guard spot, I don't see the likes of XSF, Redmond, Johnson, Price/Hopkins, Finney as anything more than back-ups at guard. It may be that Jordan is that as well but I'd like to know that before committing the big bucks or a high draft spot on the position.

He might be the most important not out of contract player on the whole roster to assess as they still seem high on him. The next few games can allow us to firm up where he is and whether he is someone that will be the presumptive starter or just plan B (or C or even cut).

I thought the line played decently enough yesterday. Burrow was off target, the WRs couldn’t catch but most importantly the coaches gameplay was fruitless. Too much reliance on the pass when the run was working.

Can we stop with the Price over Hopkins nonsense now? Has Price ever graded out as high as 72.8?

(11-16-2020, 05:14 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: Unless he's getting Burrow killed (and he wasn't), I want to see them run Jordan out at G for the next few games so we know what we have with him and whether we need to invest in G this off-season.

Other than Spain, who I'd see at the other guard spot, I don't see the likes of XSF, Redmond, Johnson, Price/Hopkins, Finney as anything more than back-ups at guard. It may be that Jordan is that as well but I'd like to know that before committing the big bucks or a high draft spot on the position.

He might be the most important not out of contract player on the whole roster to assess as they still seem high on him. The next few games can allow us to firm up where he is and whether he is someone that will be the presumptive starter or just plan B (or C or even cut).

I'm not sure how they don't know at this point what they have in Jordan.  He's a guy who started as a freshman at Ohio State yet never got much better.  Now he's a guy who started as a rookie and we aren't seeing any improvement in the NFL.  

If I hadn't exceeded my "X is a Bum" threads today, I'd start one on Michael Jordan.

Can someone remind me of why the FO and staff is so confident in this guy? Why was he immediately given a starting job in year 1, and automatically penciled back in for year 2?

He was a mid-round rookie, who played like a mid-round rookie. He played like ass last year. He's not gotten any better. The hope he would take a step forward in year 2 looks to be a mistake.

I sure hope year 3 looks better for this kid, but I gotta say that, as of right now, he sure looks like an absolute bum too.

(11-16-2020, 05:30 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Can we stop with the Price over Hopkins nonsense now? Has Price ever graded out as high as 72.8?

Don't believe so.
Only reason to play Price would be because Hopkins has moved to OG.
But the team likely won't do that.

(11-16-2020, 05:39 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Don't believe so.
Only reason to play Price would be because Hopkins has moved to OG.
But the team likely won't do that.

I don’t remember how many games it was, but iirc Hopkins was pretty bad at OG. We should leave him a C.

(11-16-2020, 05:36 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: If I hadn't exceeded my "X is a Bum" threads today, I'd start one on Michael Jordan.

Can someone remind me of why the FO and staff is so confident in this guy?  Why was he immediately given a starting job in year 1, and automatically penciled back in for year 2?

He was a mid-round rookie, who played like a mid-round rookie.  He played like ass last year.  He's not gotten any better.  The hope he would take a step forward in year 2 looks to be a mistake.

I sure hope year 3 looks better for this kid, but I gotta say that, as of right now, he sure looks like an absolute bum too.

He was basically given a starting job due to Bolling's surprise retirement and John Jerry and Alex Redmond being his main competition.  

He still sucks, but his PFF grade has improved from 43.7 last year to 58 this year.  That's a significant jump, but he was totally pathetic as a rookie.  Now he's just bad.  Next year, he may make the jump to mediocre.

Once guys get healthy, we'll have to see where he winds up.  Personally, Q and XSF should be the starters.

(11-16-2020, 05:45 PM)Whatever Wrote: He was basically given a starting job due to Bolling's surprise retirement and John Jerry and Alex Redmond being his main competition.  

He still sucks, but his PFF grade has improved from 43.7 last year to 58 this year.  That's a significant jump, but he was totally pathetic as a rookie.  Now he's just bad.  Next year, he may make the jump to mediocre.

Once guys get healthy, we'll have to see where he winds up.  Personally, Q and XSF should be the starters.

The Bobby Hart trajectory!

(11-16-2020, 05:31 PM)RiverRat13 Wrote: I'm not sure how they don't know at this point what they have in Jordan.  He's a guy who started as a freshman at Ohio State yet never got much better.  Now he's a guy who started as a rookie and we aren't seeing any improvement in the NFL.  

Jordan has made improvements, but they aren't enough to solidify his starting spot IMO.


In 2019, he had a PFF grade of 43.7 (56.8 pass, 42.6 run)
In 2020, he has a PFF grade of 58.0 (49.4 pass, 61.8 run)

Guy needs to be consistently in the 70's before he truly solidifies himself.

The only guys who have done so:
- Jonah Williams (74.8 although his run block is 65.5)
- Bobby Hart (70.4 although his pass block is 64.9)
- Trey Hopkins from a pass block perspective (75.0 pass block)

XSF was above this threshold in his 1 game this season (75.5) but we need to see him play more. It could have been a fluke.

(11-16-2020, 05:41 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I don’t remember how many games it was, but iirc Hopkins was pretty bad at OG. We should leave him a C.

Funny you mention Hopkins.
He's basically the exact same guy he was at OG as he is at C.

2017 (OG):
707 offensive snaps
pass blocking - 77.6
run blocking - 50.8

2018 (OG):
589 offensive snaps
pass blocking - 72.8
run blocking - 53.0

2019 ©:
1097 offensive snaps
pass blocking - 71.5
run blocking - 57.2

2020 ©:
543 offensive snaps
pass blocking - 75.0
run blocking - 60.6

People criticized him more when he was a G because they wanted someone who was more of a road grader at RG. He was always good as a pass blocker.

Michael Jordan just isnt violent enough to excel at that
Position. Cause of his height and he doesnt fire out
Fast enough at the snap he rarely is the lowest man in the trench
Battles.

(11-16-2020, 05:52 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Funny you mention Hopkins.
He's basically the exact same guy he was at OG as he is at C.

2017 (OG):
707 offensive snaps
pass blocking - 77.6
run blocking - 50.8

2018 (OG):
589 offensive snaps
pass blocking - 72.8
run blocking - 53.0

2019 ©:
1097 offensive snaps
pass blocking - 71.5
run blocking - 57.2

2020 ©:
543 offensive snaps
pass blocking - 75.0
run blocking - 60.6

People criticized him more when he was a G because they wanted someone who was more of a road grader at RG. He was always good as a pass blocker.

Interesting. Thanks for digging all that up.

Why would anyone want to move Hopkins from Center? He's our best lineman at his position.

(11-16-2020, 06:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why would anyone want to move Hopkins from Center? He's our best lineman at his position.

It’s certainly strange. Price had one halfway decent game (and that’s being generous) vs Tennessee and people were saying he should start to “see what we have” because Hopkins “isn’t the future” or some such.

FIK is still rocking his Billy Price avatar as I type this...lol

(11-16-2020, 04:52 PM)ochocincos Wrote: From PFF_Bengals on Twitter:


Adeniji and Spain did decent given one is a rookie 6th round pick and the other is used to playing OG.

They had ability to play Price and/or Finney instead of Redmond/Jordan, but they chose to stick with Redmond and Jordan anyway.
When I mention Price, I don't mean put him at OG. I would have put Price at C and move Hopkins to LG or RG.

How long is it going to take before the Bengals realize that Redmond and Jordan just are not good and shouldn't be starting?
Do you think they replace one or both of them once Williams, XSF, and/or Hart are back?

TY for the info

I do wish (not just you) would not give comments based on a player's draft position. To me once they make the team whether a free agent or a high pick, it is irrelevant to performance unless I am the owner giving a PR to Tobin or  team's GM. The Pats have a free agent CB playing lights out, we have high draft picks underperforming, but has nothing to do with them being drafted higher, it has to do with them not doing their job.

I understand the higher picks make more money, but the players don't give or earn respect on draft position, they earn it on performance results from each other and the coaching staff.