I honestly am not as mad as I have been with the Palmer or Dalton injuries, and it's because those were playoff years whereas this was not.

I will be more mad if this is something more severe that takes multiple years to properly heal or affects the rest of his career.

(11-23-2020, 11:29 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I honestly am not as mad as I have been with the Palmer or Dalton injuries, and it's because those were playoff years whereas this was not.

I will be more mad if this is something more severe that takes multiple years to properly heal or affects the rest of his career.

I was mad about Palmer, because it was a dirty play by the Stealers. Dalton and Burrow were just football plays. It happens. I hate it, but why be mad?

(11-23-2020, 11:23 AM)Sled21 Wrote: It wasn't a dirty play. What did you want, a bench clearing for which the Bengals would clearly have been in the wrong? Everyone saw it was just a football play.  :paul:

Did I say go out and fight them? Maybe I need to reread my post.

As a player I never took losing well. Losing while watching the best player on my the best hope for playing on at least an average team have a potentially career impacting injury probably wouldn't lead to a whole lot of laughing and smiling for me, which is what I saw. 

(11-23-2020, 11:32 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I was mad about Palmer, because it was a dirty play by the Stealers. Dalton and Burrow were just football plays. It happens. I hate it, but why be mad?

Because you just watched the future of the franchise go down in the type of injury that can alter careers? It's not about being directed at Washington but just the futility of this franchise.

(11-23-2020, 11:32 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I was mad about Palmer, because it was a dirty play by the Stealers. Dalton and Burrow were just football plays. It happens. I hate it, but why be mad?

Because I wanted to see my favorite team go deep in the playoffs, and those were the two years I felt were the best chance to do it?
"Mad" probably isn't the most accurate word though. Frustrated or disappointed is probably more accurate.

(11-23-2020, 11:43 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Because I wanted to see my favorite team go deep in the playoffs, and those were the two years I felt were the best chance to do it?
"Mad" probably isn't the most accurate word though. Frustrated or disappointed is probably more accurate.

I'm with you on that, but that's different than being mad. I was mad at Kimo and the Stealers. This is disappointing no doubt, but it's also football and we've all seen it happen and know it can happen on any play at any time with any player with any coach. So, best to just wish Joey well and wish for a speedy 100% recovery and be ready for training camp. I have faith in him that he will kill the rehab and be ready to go. It's not like we lost a shot at the playoffs this year. Get Burrow healthy, get another round of high draft picks in and some more free agents. Get Reader and Waynes back, and go after it again next year.

(11-23-2020, 11:47 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I'm with you on that, but that's different than being mad. I was mad at Kimo and the Stealers. This is disappointing no doubt, but it's also football and we've all seen it happen and know it can happen on any play at any time with any player with any coach. So, best to just wish Joey well and wish for a speedy 100% recovery and be ready for training camp. I have faith in him that he will kill the rehab and be ready to go. It's not like we lost a shot at the playoffs this year. Get Burrow healthy, get another round of high draft picks in and some more free agents. Get Reader and Waynes back, and go after it again next year.

I think if there's any reason to be truly mad, it's that this coaching staff made the decision to primarily stick with this OL in the offseason rather than address it with more well-known FAs and/or higher draft picks. We knew that the OL was going to not be good again. That's been proven to be true.

What fans will really get mad about is if that decision ends up costing Burrow's career. Too early to determine that yet, but if it does...

(11-23-2020, 11:50 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I think if there's any reason to be truly mad, it's that this coaching staff made the decision to primarily stick with this OL in the offseason rather than address it with more well-known FAs and/or higher draft picks. We knew that the OL was going to not be good again. That's been proven to be true.

What fans will really get mad about is if that decision ends up costing Burrow's career. Too early to determine that yet, but if it does...

XFS graded really high in his one game for us. He was supposed to help address the guard issue. I can't see the team taking a lineman with Burrow and Higgins available 1 and 2. We knew we were getting Williams back and Hart improved from what he was. I think it was addressed, maybe not as much as it should have been by bringing in another FA, but it's not like they just ignored it. If we had XFS and Spain playing guard with Williams and Hart at tackles, the line would have been ok. Woulda shoulda....

(11-23-2020, 12:25 PM)Sled21 Wrote: XFS graded really high in his one game for us. He was supposed to help address the guard issue. I can't see the team taking a lineman with Burrow and Higgins available 1 and 2. We knew we were getting Williams back and Hart improved from what he was. I think it was addressed, maybe not as much as it should have been by bringing in another FA, but it's not like they just ignored it. If we had XFS and Spain playing guard with Williams and Hart at tackles, the line would have been ok. Woulda shoulda....

The problem with XSF was he was brought in to replace Miller, who was decent last year.
They still decided to stick with Jordan, who was the worst OL last year and is the worst starter again this year aside from the backups who have come in due to injury.

They should have kept Miller and brought in XSF to replace Jordan while Jordan was groomed on the bench.

And yes, they did bring in Spain midseason, but we've not gotten any indication they plan to have Spain and XSF as the starters if/when both are healthy. For all we know, they have only brought in Spain as a backup and will continue to put Jordan out at LG regardless of XSF being healthy.

Now that I talk about Miller, I decided to go back and look at the PFF grades for him and Jordan this year and last year.
Miller:
2019 CIN - 58.6 (58.2 pass, 55.3 run)
2020 CAR - 62.0 (59.5 pass, 61.0 run)

Jordan:
2019 - 43.7 (56.8 pass, 42.6 run)
2020 - 56.9 (44.2 pass, 63.2 run)

(11-22-2020, 08:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So it was "nothing but a prayer" to expect the first O-lineman taken in the draft to improve their line?  It is amazing the lengths some people will go to in order to whine about this front office.

Bobby Hart was not that bad in pass protection last year.   Jordan was bad, but if we are going to build with young draft picks we can't give up on a fourth round pick after one season.  Trey Hopkins is nothing special, but not a "must replace" either.  Sua-Filo was not a big money free agent, but at least he was a new face instead of staying with the old. 

The O-line had questions but it is bullshit to claim the Bengals "completely ignored" it.

Relying on what you did the year before is literally completely ignoring it this year.   And yeah, relying on a first round tackle who has never played a snap as your sole improvement is nothing but a prayer.  They're in this mess because they blew their last two tackle picks.

Listen to yourself, you're acting like "not that bad" is the standard you want to apply to protecting the franchise.  You build with young draft picks by working them in behind good starters - not throwing them in when they're not ready because you've got nothing better.

(11-23-2020, 11:35 AM)R3stangs Wrote: As a player I never took losing well. Losing while watching the best player on my the best hope for playing on at least an average team have a potentially career impacting injury probably wouldn't lead to a whole lot of laughing and smiling for me, which is what I saw. 

Yet Dunlap got crucified around here for complaining about the coaches and our inability to win.

If its a curse, its a curse in the sense the team is ran by Mike Brown and his bare-minimum ways.

Bare-minimum. Should change the team name to the Cincinnati Bare-Minimums. It better reflects them as opposed to big orange and black cats.

Burrow is a fantastic young talent. A talent the Bengals happened to get because of their bare-minimum ways. A talent whose knee was blown out because of those same ways.

I honestly thought Burrow might be the light at the end of this 29 year old playoff win draught tunnel. But not anymore. Until the Bengals change their ways, Burrow isnt enough, no great qb would be.

**** them if they dont.


* I heard the term bare-minimum just a while ago on the radio in describing the Bengals, and I cant think of a better term to use here.

(11-23-2020, 01:38 PM)Roland Wrote: You build with young draft picks by working them in behind good starters - not throwing them in when they're not ready because you've got nothing better.

But everyone here says we should have traded away all of our decent starters for draft pick in order to re-build with young talent.

It is impossible to build an entire roster from free agents.  The salary cap will not allow it.

You can't have it both ways.

(11-23-2020, 01:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But everyone here says we should have traded away all of our decent starters for draft pick in order to re-build with young talent.

It is impossible to build an entire roster from free agents.  The salary cap will not allow it.

You can't have it both ways.

They could have improved two more spots on the offensive line with the money they spent on defensive free agents.   It's that simple.  Keeping your franchise quarterback healthy and giving up 60 points a game would have been better than what they have now.