(11-22-2020, 09:26 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Actually not true (Bill Tobin being a great GM)

His career record as an executive was 87-88.  His teams never made a single Superbowl.

Whats even worse, is the only reason is record as a GM is anywhere near .500 is because he took over an already decent Bears team in '87, that still had a number of stars left from the '85 team.

His record after that stop in Chicago was 35-49, and that was much closer to the time he came on board here.

  My mistake. I thought he was the GM for most of the Colts good years...

Missing quite a few names on the list for why Tobin should be fired. One of the names on the list he is responsible for is ZT.

(11-23-2020, 01:54 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Missing quite a few names on the list for why Tobin should be fired. One of the names on the list he is responsible for is ZT.

Tobin is the director of player personnel. He has nothing to do with the coaching staff.

(11-22-2020, 07:07 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: The Brown and Blackburn family is ultimately the problem.  Until they step aside, and remove themselves from running this team, we're all just wasting our breathe on things we can do to be more successful.

And there's absolutely no chance of that happening, so...yeah, what you said about wasting our breath. 

(11-23-2020, 01:39 AM)JSR18 Wrote:   My mistake. I thought he was the GM for most of the Colts good years...

Bill Polian

(11-22-2020, 07:37 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: That's like saying rear-ending a car you've been tailgating, after being told your brake pads were completely shot is a freak accident.

1.) You should have replaced your brake pads. (You should have invested in a better OL)

2.) You shouldn't have been following so close. (You shouldn't have been throwing the ball 50 times a game with your QB getting drilled so much)

Not only was not a freak accident, it was a likely outcome.  This was a disaster waiting to happen.  It's a shame the Front Office and Zac Taylor didn't do a better job protecting this kid.  The writing was on the wall, and their solution was to do absolutely nothing.

Excellent post.

(11-22-2020, 07:39 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: No sacks today... little or NFL norm pressure ..... offensive line playing better overall last 4 to 5 games... freak injury means coaching and owners fault.. yes got it.. Guess Lewis fault that Tyler Eiffert was hurt in games too.. hmmm

Garbage can filler post. 

(11-22-2020, 07:24 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: I agree that Michael Jordan is not a starter but that was a freak accident.

It is not like the defender blew past and killed the QB. He was actually blocked into QB.

I am frustrated just as much as everyone else but injuries do happen. 

We will lose the rest of our games and hopefully sign Thuney and draft Peneii Sewell. 

Burrow will be back as good as ever and he will have a great line in front of him.

 

I have watched that play several times.  It didn't look like a freak accident.  It looked like poor blocking technique by Michael Jordan.  

Jordan on that play got manhandled. Allen fired out
Lower and dictated to Jordan what he was going
To do. But thats been happening all year to Jordan
But our genius coach keeps on playing him

(11-22-2020, 06:52 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Duke Tobin drafted these 2 bums.and Zac Taylor insisted
On starting Jordan and keeping Finely as a backup.And because of their sheer ineptness
Our franchise QB is done for the year and there is no guarentee
His mobility will ever be the same.
And Ryan Finely doesnt have the balls or arm strength to be on a NFL roster.
Oh BTW Tobin this is another year the Bengals Have missed the playoffs. Yet you still have a job As a GM.
And Zac Taylor will be 4 and 27 and 1 at the end of this year.
I dare any Zac Taylor or Duke Tobin fan boi to tell me there is progress being made.

Finley sucks, and most NFL teams would be done without their starter....Trading up to get him was beyond stupid.  

However,  this is last year's draft:

1.) Joe Burrow- Stud
2.) Tee Higgins- Stud
3.) Logan Wilson- Developing starter
4.) ADG- rotational player getting experience.
5.) Khalid Kareem- Developing starter
6.) Hakeem Adeniji- Solid backup with starter potential
7.) Markus Bailey- To be determined

You have six guys out of seven that are all getting significant playing time and making significant contributions.  They nailed last year's draft.  You can throw out duds like Finley, but then I can show you an OT that has played as well as any rookie that was taken in the 6th round.  

I have no idea what to do with the coaching staff.  I am guessing Anarumo has lost his bid to keep his job, although the defense was playing very well before Burrow's injury.  I just have no idea when it comes to the coaches.  I hesitate to get rid of ZT because of Burrow's success despite the line and target challenges.  And what Lou is doing with minimal talent is actually pretty respectable.  That steeler game, though.  Ugh.  

(11-23-2020, 02:24 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Tobin is the director of player personnel. He has nothing to do with the coaching staff.

Wasn't he a part of the group that interviewed and decided on Zac? I could've sworn I remember that it was a group decision featuring the Browns, Blackburns and Tobin.

(11-23-2020, 10:31 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Finley sucks, and most NFL teams would be done without their starter....Trading up to get him was beyond stupid.  

However,  this is last year's draft:

1.) Joe Burrow- Stud
2.) Tee Higgins- Stud
3.) Logan Wilson- Developing starter
4.) ADG- rotational player getting experience.
5.) Khalid Kareem- Developing starter
6.) Hakeem Adeniji- Solid backup with starter potential
7.) Markus Bailey- To be determined

You have six guys out of seven that are all getting significant playing time and making significant contributions.  They nailed last year's draft.  You can throw out duds like Finley, but then I can show you an OT that has played as well as any rookie that was taken in the 6th round.  

I have no idea what to do with the coaching staff.  I am guessing Anarumo has lost his bid to keep his job, although the defense was playing very well before Burrow's injury.  I just have no idea when it comes to the coaches.  I hesitate to get rid of ZT because of Burrow's success despite the line and target challenges.  And what Lou is doing with minimal talent is actually pretty respectable.  That steeler game, though.  Ugh.  

Let's be honest here. Anybody on this board that has a working
Knowledge of football could replicated that 2020 draft.
It doesnt take a astute football mind to draft Burrow and Higgins
And any Bengals knows LB was a real weakness last year.
Im.not about to.give Tobin any credit for the 2020 draft haul.

You have replace ZT the culture is worse now than when he 
Arrived.And for a HC not to see all.the life taken out of the players when JB went down is very alarming.
When Big Ben went down last year did the whole Steelers team
Just fold and quit on Tomlin.? Heck no.
They dug their heels in and competed.and darn near made the playoffs with 2 QBs with noodle arms.
Thats the.Steelers culture. They find a way.they believe in the system.

How this team responded after JBs injury tells me they believe
In JB they dont believe in ZT

(11-23-2020, 02:24 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Tobin is the director of player personnel. He has nothing to do with the coaching staff.

I thought you followed the Cincinnati Bengals?

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2019/2/9/18217579/duke-tobin-is-putting-his-reputation-on-the-line-with-the-zac-taylor-hire

(11-22-2020, 07:37 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: That's like saying rear-ending a car you've been tailgating, after being told your brake pads were completely shot is a freak accident.

1.) You should have replaced your brake pads. (You should have invested in a better OL)

2.) You shouldn't have been following so close. (You shouldn't have been throwing the ball 50 times a game with your QB getting drilled so much)

Not only was not a freak accident, it was a likely outcome.  This was a disaster waiting to happen.  It's a shame the Front Office and Zac Taylor didn't do a better job protecting this kid.  The writing was on the wall, and their solution was to do absolutely nothing.

Exactly

Why some can't see this is baffling.

(11-23-2020, 10:53 AM)impactplaya Wrote: Let's be honest here. Anybody on this board that has a working
Knowledge of football could replicated that 2020 draft.
It doesnt take a astute football mind to draft Burrow and Higgins
And any Bengals knows LB was a real weakness last year.
Im.not about to.give Tobin any credit for the 2020 draft haul.

You have replace ZT the culture is worse now than when he 
Arrived.And for a HC not to see all.the life taken out of the players when JB went down is very alarming.
When Big Ben went down last year did the whole Steelers team
Just fold and quit on Tomlin.? Heck no.
They dug their heels in and competed.and darn near made the playoffs with 2 QBs with noodle arms.
Thats the.Steelers culture. They find a way.they believe in the system.

How this team responded after JBs injury tells me they believe
In JB they dont believe in ZT

I think the fact that the steelers have a crazy talented defense is why their team didn't "give up" after Piggy went down.  And they did lay an egg at the end of the season, but I rather would save my thoughts of that team for the next time I take a shit. 

I don't think the team's reaction to Burrow's injury is a reflection of ZT.  I guess we will learn a lot the next few weeks about the defense.  The offense is sunk with Finley.  

(11-23-2020, 02:57 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I thought you followed the Cincinnati Bengals?

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2019/2/9/18217579/duke-tobin-is-putting-his-reputation-on-the-line-with-the-zac-taylor-hire

They need to change his title then. And he’ll probably just end up being a scapegoat anyway. Decisions that big are 100% on Mike Brown and Katie Blackburn.

I just cant wrap my head around that there are those on this board
That still are on board with keeping Taylor and Tobin around.
But the Tobin fan club remain silent.

(11-24-2020, 09:50 AM)impactplaya Wrote: I just cant wrap my head around that there are those on this board
That still are on board with keeping Taylor and Tobin around.
But the Tobin fan club remain silent.

Burrow's injury gives us the perfect opportunity to assess the coach. We get to see how much of the improvement was sucking into a great QB v how much was the coaching staff.

Remember he traded up to take Finley and he's had him a year and a half in his system. There will obviously be a drop-off but if Zac and Duke are good talent evaluators then we'll no doubt be competitive for the rest of the season and pick up a couple of wins.

We get 6 games to assess the O-line - XSF and Hart should be due back so no excuses of injuries. We also get the opportunity of moving them around trying to assess who will be part of the plan next year so we can play Adeniji, move Jonah to G or RT, try Hopkins at G etc, without worrying about the consequences.

The position that would be hardest hit by the injury at QB will be WR but we're fortunate enough to have already found out what we have with Higgins.

By the end of the season we'll have seen enough to judge Pratt, Jordan, Finley, Sample etc and we'll know where we are with this GM/HC combination.