(11-24-2020, 02:31 PM)Bronxbengal Wrote: I am so sick of these reporters using anonymous sources.  If a source doesn’t want to go on record their comments shouldn’t be used.  The press yields why too much power when they don’t name sources.  More than likely the unnamed sources are people who have an ax to grind.  I will be astonished when a player has the balls to go on record.  Oh btw, wasn’t Marvin accused to play is favorites?

Let me go n record that ZT needs to be fired and I don’t support anything this dumbass does.  However, I am so sick of these self righteous reporters.  Shut up until you name the source.  Journalism is dead


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Do you think it's possible the quotes are real and the players are afraid if they allow their name to be used they'll lose their playing time?

I’ll be honest, I bought into what Zac was preaching early on about his growth mindset and sports medicine and all of this. Yet he continues to fail and do things contrary to what he sold us on. He’s a conman. Conned us all. And to top it off he really set our prized Joe Burrow back. His poor coaching actually earned him the best QB in the history of college sports. His big head sure took him for granted. He’s not sorry for any of it. His 4 wins are the players fault and not his. **** him. He should have won 5 games with Burrow at QB. Poor coaching got in the way.

(11-24-2020, 02:31 PM)wildcatnku24 Wrote:   I don't want to create that pattern of coach carousel,

I 100% agree with this.  For years I have said all along that change just or the sake of change is not the answer.  And this year I have repeatedly said that we should not fire Taylor in the middle of the season, and that we should give him at least 2 full seasons.  Even now if the Bengals were to suddenly look better over the final 6 games I might give him another year.

But we are dealing with the worst head coaching record in the history of the NFL.  And so far I don't see any improvement that would justify bringing Taylor back next year.  The offense is only slightly better than last year (20th v. 26th) but that is with the addition of two first round picks, an exceptional second round pick, and A.J. Green.   Green may just be a shadow of his former self, but last year Alex Erickson was our #2 WR.

(11-24-2020, 02:44 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: The 49'ers fired Jim Tomusula after 1 year, how'd that work out?

The Cardinals fired Steve Wilks after 1 year, how'd that work out?

Keep in mind, these are guys that were fired after a single season.  And this is just off the top of my head, I'm sure there's more.  

We're talking about firing a coach after 2 seasons.  I can find you about 50 examples where moving on was, unquestionably, the right move.

Those two examples are really good ones to support your argument, but I do wonder about the state of their roster when they couldn't win, versus ours.  I mean, I don't even think Bellichick could win here, pre-burrow injury.  

Would you say it works out more times than it doesn't?  I have no data in front of me, but my gut says it doesn't work out more times than it does.  

(11-24-2020, 02:49 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: I’ll be honest, I bought into what Zac was preaching early on about his growth mindset and sports medicine and all of this. Yet he continues to fail and do things contrary to what he sold us on. He’s a conman. Conned us all. And to top it off he really set our prized Joe Burrow back. His poor coaching actually earned him the best QB in the history of college sports. His big head sure took him for granted. He’s not sorry for any of it. His 4 wins are the players fault and not his. **** him. He should have won 5 games with Burrow at QB. Poor DEFENSE got in the way.

Fixed it for you. Burrow nearly won many games that were snatched away by poor defense.   Also struck out the ridiculous statement that ZT is responsible for setting back Burrow.  Freak things happen in football.  

What he's not sorry for is playing to win.  My gosh, if he came out and said "i'm gonna hold burrow back, we probably won't win much, but maybe next year he'll be ready"  you'd find me at the front line with a pitchfork.  You play your best players, period.

(11-24-2020, 02:56 PM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: Fixed it for you. Burrow nearly won many games that were snatched away by poor defense.   Also struck out the ridiculous statement that ZT is responsible for setting back Burrow.  Freak things happen in football.  

What he's not sorry for is playing to win.  My gosh, if he came out and said "i'm gonna hold burrow back, we probably won't win much, but maybe next year he'll be ready"  you'd find me at the front line with a pitchfork.  You play your best players, period.

Bottom line is Zac refused to protect Burrow with the running game in a meaningless game.

Bottom bottom line is Zac has 4 wins in 2 years. He’s not getting it done. He’s got a divided locker room. He cannot coach with the best coaches in the league. Why keep him around? Do you want a repeat of this year?

(11-24-2020, 02:36 PM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: Super duper cherry picking at its finest.  How many coaches have they gone through, impact?  i don't want to hear about the last one.

John.Dorsey insisted Kitchens was the right man for the hire.
Every media outlet had the Browns in the playoffs and/or SB.
You know Kitchens did. He allowed a team to read its press 
Clippings and he created a college type locker room.
Players like Mayfield ceased to work hard cause of Kitchens
Players did not buy into Kitchens. 
The players are not buying into Taylor. Not hard to see.

And the tipping point was......getting beat by Zac Taylor.
And BTW for all.bumbling Kitchens did he still won more
In a season than Zac has in 2.
Guess who Kitchens DC was...Steve Wilks. Who is as inept as Lou is. He got canned

So out goes Dorsey and Kitchens...in comes in the playoffs.
And im a big Dorsey fan. Look.at the Browns roster.
Thats Dorsey.

But the Browns cleaned house last year. It paid off.

(11-24-2020, 02:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I was as big of a supporter of Marvin as anyone here, and even I said he should have been gone after the '17 season.

The problem Taylor has is that he has no history of success to earn the players respect.  Marvin had a Super Bowl ring and a 15 year career winning record against other NFL head coaches despite working for one of the worst owners in professional sports. 

Just to remind everyone

Mike Browns record with Marvin Lewis................. .518 win%, 7 playoffs, only 6 losing seasons in 16 years
Mike Browns record with all other head coaches.. .273 win%,  zero winning seasons in 14 years

Zac was famously hired late because he was at the Super Bowl so he has some coaching success and credentials (yes, it's not Marvin's CV but it is more than almost all the players he is coaching). Of course the shine would be greater if the Rams had won or hadn't faded away since his departure.

He also seems to have the buy-in of the franchise (#9), probably the one guy more successful. This is Burrow's franchise now - not just his team - and for so long as Joe has faith in Zac, he'll be the HC.

(11-24-2020, 02:22 PM)J24 Wrote:  Not from a culture/Locker room standpoint no. Were there problems with time management and strategy yes but not culture.

My impression from afar is that the culture was unravelling after the meltdown and never recovered.

(11-24-2020, 02:22 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: You're 100% flat out wrong here.  I'm not trying to be rude here, but you are.

Elise Jesse has been writing things like this going all of the way back to when Carlos first went off.  She's made numerous claims to the culture in the locker room not being the best for months.  She's even used similar sources in the past.

Go look at her twitter page, and you'll see for yourself.  Keep scrolling down, and down, and down.  This article is basically a compilation of what she's been reporting for weeks and weeks.

Now, you may disagree with the premise of her article, and you may not put much stock in her sources, or her ability as a reporter.  That is up to you.  But you can't claim she pulled this story out of thin air, right after Burrow went down, in an effort only drive clicks.  That's simply not true.

It's a re-hash of what she was previously saying, in an effort to drive clicks out of Burrow's injury.

She sees the anger of Bengaldom and is deliberately feeding it for clicks. That can still be true and the story be true.

(11-24-2020, 02:57 PM)Sled21 Wrote:  If she can't put a name on a source, then there is no credibility to come out and say the exact opposite of what players are saying.  Meh...

There are many reasons why a player on a team would not want to be identified when criticizing coaches.  Anyone who doesn't have his head in Zacs lap understands this.

I guess you think all laws to protect whistleblowers in other areas are just a bunch of bullshit also, right?  Maybe you need to educate yourself on how many big stories have been initially based on anonymous sources.

(11-24-2020, 02:57 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Sources tell me her sources are just people trying to get in her pants. And my sources are as valid as hers. If she can't put a name on a source, then there is no credibility to come out and say the exact opposite of what players are saying.  Meh...

My sources tell me you don't want to believe in the content of the article because you're the world's biggest homer, so you're using that to unfailry criticize a well-respected, long-tenured member of the local media.

(11-24-2020, 03:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sexist much?

How the hell does criticizing coaches help anyone get in her pants?

Well maybe my "sources" are about as good as hers.....

(11-24-2020, 03:13 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: My sources tell me you don't want to believe in the content of the article because you're the world's biggest homer, so you're using that to unfailry criticize a well-respected, long-tenured member of the local media.

Not really, I just choose to believe what they players actually say over some anonymous source....

(11-24-2020, 03:08 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: . This is Burrow's franchise now - not just his team - and for so long as Joe has faith in Zac, he'll be the HC.

Burrow has no more power over this franchise than Palmer did.  They were both #1 picks.  The only difference was Palmer had much mor success on the filed than Burrow.

And Palmer quit the team because he could not get what he wanted.  So it sounds silly to claim that Burrow is now given all the power over the franchise.

(11-24-2020, 03:16 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Not really, I just choose to believe what they players actually say over some anonymous source....

You are ignoring what the anonymous source players are actually saying.

Like I said.  Maybe you should educate yourself on all the big stories that were based on anonymous sources that had good reason to remain anonymous.  A lot of people have ended up looking very stupid for ignoring anonymous sources.

(11-24-2020, 03:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You are ignoring what the anonymous source players are actually saying.

Like I said.  Maybe you should educate yourself on all the big stories that were based on anonymous sources that had good reason to remain anonymous.  A lot of people have ended up looking very stupid for ignoring anonymous sources.

And a lot of people have looked very very stupid for believing anonymous sources just as well.... with many recent examples.

And now it's reached Cincy Jungle. ugh

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/11/24/21612925/bengals-locker-room-issues-nfl-rumors-zac-taylor-jim-turner-lou-anarumo

(11-24-2020, 12:27 PM)J24 Wrote: DJ Reader is also one of Lous guys who no matter what won't be benched. Why wouldn't he love it in Cincy?

Well, that and the fact he is one of the best at his position in the league.

Well, for a defense that "sources" say hates Lou, they sure seem to me to be playing hard for him. They may not be great, but outside of Dunlap I have seen no lack of effort. Players always appear to me to be getting after it as opposed to years past where it seemed they were more going through the motions.

(11-24-2020, 03:30 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Well, for a defense that "sources" say hates Lou, they sure seem to me to be playing hard for him. They may not be great, but outside of Dunlap I have seen no lack of effort. Players always appear to me to be getting after it as opposed to years past where it seemed they were more going through the motions.

Completely agree, Sled.

(11-24-2020, 03:16 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Not really, I just choose to believe what they players actually say over some anonymous source....

You think many players will go on the record saying the culture in the locker room is worse than college?  You think a player will attatch his name to reporting that his DC calls him a f#!kin idiot?

Fwiw, Elise Jesse has worked with the Bengals in a multitude of ways.  She was a sports reporter at WLWT.  She did the Sunday night late show (Sports Rock?) where they'd have various local athletes and personalities on.  She also did some of those things for the team where they interview fans at a restaraunt/bar before the preseason games. (Don't know what it's called, but it's sponsored content, cheesy fan stuff.)

Most importantly, she's been a beat reporter for quite some time.  She's also currently doing work with James Rapien, who is another beat reporter.

She's not someone who's going to go out of her way to make up comments out of thin air.  It would be career suicide.  People in the building would know, and either limit her access or players would avoid her.  She can't just go around lying, and expect to continue in that field.

And not for nothing, her husband is one of the best Strength Coaches in the entire country.  Highly unlikely someone who is so close to the business would be as reckless as to attribue quotes to players in a locker room, that weren't actually said.

But to each their own, you can believe it's all bs if you like.  More power to you.