So 2022 is the return of Marvin ?

The Brown family isn't eating whatever salary is owed to Zac no earlier than half way through next season & even then, that is too early of a prediction.

Oof.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/zac-taylor-bengals-culture-problem

This is a "LOL" list to look at:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/

Zac is #366.

(11-24-2020, 10:56 AM)Big Boss Wrote: Oof.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/zac-taylor-bengals-culture-problem

Ouch...

Quote:Multiple sources have described the culture in Cincinnati as more of a “college-level” environment instead of a professional locker room.


One member of the team said that the culture didn't even compare to a college locker room. 

"It's worse," they said. 

Multiple people within the organization believe players are staying quiet because they don't want to lose playing time. They say that there is very little trust between the players and the coaching staff. 

(11-24-2020, 01:35 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Why would anyone renew season tickets in 2021?

Likely 2021 will be a 6 win season when Burrow is on IR for first 6 games.

I hope they have n more than 5000 in the stands, they do not deserve paying fans.

I take it you aren't excited to see the Flacco led Bengals next year?

Duplicate post

(11-24-2020, 10:23 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: While everyone here is very emotional right now (and it is completely understandable), I have tried to take an honest look at ZT and here is what I come up with:

PROs:

I like the focus on culture and guys that come from winning programs.  

I like the fact that (for the most part) he doesn't play the guy that has been around the longest, just because he has been around the longest.  He plays the younger, more talented player in many cases.  However, he also seemingly won't tolerate mistakes.  Ross didn't get much run this year at all and that is a former #9 overall pick.  And they were struggling at WR with Green not doing much.  

He seems like a nice guy that most of the players like

CONS:

He abandons the running game way too early.  Sometimes it is like watching a kid play Madden.  Without WRs that generate quick separation, Burrow often found himself "behind the sticks" (3rd and long) and would be exposed to a lot of hits.  See first Cleveland game, Philly game, steeler game.

There is no consistency in his game.  He has a fantastic scheme to get Sample and Gio Bernard involved in the screen game where they completed 10 passes on 10 attempts for over 100 yards against the Browns the second game.  The offensive gameplan was stellar.  It was.  They only lost because they couldn't get one stop on defense.  Then, they don't face as strong a pass rush against Tennessee and Burrow picks them apart.  Back to a team with perhaps the best pass rush (pitt) and no screen game at all.  It just makes no sense.  Never saw it the first Cleveland game or against Philly where he was getting killed.

Defense?  What is that?   I get letting your coordinators run their show, but he doesn't seem to have any interest in working on that side of the ball.  Maybe tell his DC what he is seeing as an OC and help him self-scout a bit.  

Route concepts.  I have heard that other teams steal his designs, but I ask why that would be when the Bengals WRs generate the least separation of any receiver corps in the league (that was a next gen stat shared on a radio show...no source).  The naked eye shows that as well.  Burrow holding on to the ball too long with no running game and a suspect offensive line.

So, as a whole, I have a lot more negative comments than positives.  I can't help but think I would feel quite different about a lot of this if the FA acquisitions had panned out on defense and the defense wasn't so awful (again).  That would give Burrow more possessions, etc.  The guy only played with a lead twice that I know of and he was fantastic.  But, as it sits, a whole lot more red than green in the ledger.  The only problem is, I have no idea who you replace him with.  If you say Eric Bienemy, you will have the exact same scenario that by the time you are able to hire him, he will have no assistants to choose from.  As much as I hate to say it, I give him (and Lou) one more year.  They have been in every game but two (that will change now) and I have seen signs of improvement on both sides despite massive disappoints from stalwarts like Green, Dunlap, and Atkins as well as injuries to key FA.  

Spot on post. More negatives than positives. For me I have little confidence in Zach & none in Lou. Hope they prove me wrong.

(11-24-2020, 10:13 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Everyone says Turner is an idiot for keeping Jordan in the starting lineup and criticize him when he says he sees Jordan developing. But, for the last 2 years people made that same statement about Hart, and yet here is Hart playing RT at a fairly decent level. Turner may or may not be replaced.

The most damning evidence against Turner is that many of the problems with pass protection are mental errors instead of players getting beat physically one-on-one.  Our O-line does not seem to be able to pick up a blitz or a stunt by the D-line.  The Ravens got five sacks from DBs because we were clueless against the blitz.

Plus Jonah looks nothing like the first O-lineman taken in the draft should.  He is struggling to be average.

Turner was the ONLY coach I gave any credit after it appeared that we fixed the run game in the middle of last season, but whatever they did last year is gone.  I just don't understand it.

(11-24-2020, 10:13 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Lou Anarumo will be back. He was given a lot of free agents to help the defense, and most of them got hurt. He's playing with a defensive line consisting of Covington, Bledsoe and Hunt and has them playing above their pedigrees. I believe Lou gets one more year with a healthy defense. 

Our defense was helpless against the run even before Reader and Alexander got injured.  And, again, the most damning evidence against him is more about scheme than poor individual play.  Teams score at will at the end of the half or the end of a game.  That has killed us all year.

Plus the fact that Dunlap is tearing it up with the Seahawks makes Lou look like a clown.  Apparently Lou wanted Dunlap gone after last season and the front office favored keeping Carlos.  For this reason alone I feel that even if the rest of the staff returns Lou will be gone.

(11-24-2020, 10:56 AM)Big Boss Wrote: Oof.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/zac-taylor-bengals-culture-problem

Wow.... at first I was like, "Who is Elise Jesse" (I think James reports here for SI) but she's with WLWT as well.  I hate unnamed player sources and they are probably bitter underperforming older players, but still.  It looks like it goes way beyond Dunlap.  This is one thing the Brown family does not like at all is drama in the coaching ranks.  

(11-24-2020, 10:21 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Take emotion out of if for a minute, has Turner really done that bad a job? Injuries have really caused his oline to be completely different for just about every game. Heck, he lost 3 starters in one game, had to start a player who were here for a day, and yet the protection this year has gotten consistently better from the beginning of the season to what it is now, especially since the Ravens game. Could any other line coach have done better in this circumstance with these players?

He's right though. They need to make a change. For PR reasons. I know Mike Brown is as stubborn as anyone but even he's going to see that they need to give fans a reason to believe things are different and whilst Burrow was a reason to believe they aren't going to have him to August. Someone will need to be a sacrificial lamb.

That will be Anarumo. He's disposable. When the players spoke up, they spoke up for Zac not Lou. The only one who has spoken up for him has been Zac but we know he wasn't Zac's first choice in the first place. Regardless of whether it is deserved or not he's a dead man walking. It's likely he knows and the players likely know it.

With things going to get worse before they get better the pressure may be to make further changes. With Finley unable to move in the pocket or take quick decisions like Burrow the O-line is going to look ugly. That puts Turner in the firing line too - and knowing that we've lost because we're without Burrow and that we're without Burrow because the O-line failed to protect him will just increase pressure on him. Turner's future hangs in the balance too.

Hope they like having less than 30k fans in a 65k seat stadium next year.

Hope they like unsold luxury boxes.

Hope they like starting negotiations with the county at the end of next year about the lease agreement.

Hope they like continuing to be a total laughingstock.

(11-24-2020, 03:58 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Hope they like starting negotiations with the county at the end of next year about the lease agreement.

Sad thing is they will get it done and the taxpayers will be paying for it in many more ways than one...

(11-24-2020, 12:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The most damning evidence against Turner is that many of the problems with pass protection are mental errors instead of players getting beat physically one-on-one.  Our O-line does not seem to be able to pick up a blitz or a stunt by the D-line.  The Ravens got five sacks from DBs because we were clueless against the blitz.

Plus Jonah looks nothing like the first O-lineman taken in the draft should.  He is struggling to be average.

Turner was the ONLY coach I gave any credit after it appeared that we fixed the run game in the middle of last season, but whatever they did last year is gone.  I just don't understand it.




Our defense was helpless against the run even before Reader and Alexander got injured.  And, again, the most damning evidence against him is more about scheme than poor individual play.  Teams score at will at the end of the half or the end of a game.  That has killed us all year.

Plus the fact that Dunlap is tearing it up with the Seahawks makes Lou look like a clown.  Apparently Lou wanted Dunlap gone after last season and the front office favored keeping Carlos.  For this reason alone I feel that even if the rest of the staff returns Lou will be gone.

He should be, and I was not exactly a big proponent of the way Dunlap handled that.

(11-24-2020, 04:04 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: He should be, and I was not exactly a big proponent of the way Dunlap handled that.

None of us were.

And he's my 2nd favourite player ever; he handled it with immaturity and little class.

Still, unless my deductions are far off, I guess he had to stoop to the level of his handlers, to be let go...

Poor technique and constant mental errors...the things both our OL and defense have in common. Lou's "scheme" is a joke that results in constant confusion and the technique in coverage as well as on the DL is amateur hour. On the OL you see the same thing - bad blocking techniques, poor blocking schemes and no blitz recognition among other things.

(11-24-2020, 04:13 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: None of us were.

And he's my 2nd favourite player ever; he handled it with immaturity and little class.

Still, unless my deductions are far off, I guess he had to stoop to the level of his handlers, to be let go...

That's the way it appears....the only things that really got me was posting up depth charts and then just all out sandbagging. I'd rather he faked an injury than pull that shit. 

(11-23-2020, 11:32 PM)GodFather Wrote: https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/11/23/21611886/nfl-rumors-bengals-coach-zac-taylor-joe-burrow-knee-injury


No shock to any Bengals fan....

Worst owner and front office in all of sports. No other organization is even close. Those clowns are running this team like Forrest Gump

(11-24-2020, 08:45 PM)cincyfan429 Wrote: Worst owner and front office in all of sports. No other organization is even close. Those clowns are running this team like Forrest Gump

Yeah but Forrest was successful at his endeavors...

(11-24-2020, 08:45 PM)cincyfan429 Wrote: Worst owner and front office in all of sports. No other organization is even close. Those clowns are running this team like Forrest Gump

Not true... They suck, but the Knicks and Jets are worse off the top of my head. There's probably a few more. They're toward the bottom though, so your point is well taken.