(11-26-2020, 12:38 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Some tackle examples from last year:

59.2 Willis #10 overall

73.9 Bechton #11 overall
77.9 Wirfs, #13 overall
49.7 Jackson #18 overall
DNP Wilson  #29 overall (a guy a lot of us wanted)

Bobby Hart 2020 PFF:  70.0

Our problem is not at tackle, it is at guard, and they should try to sign Joe Thuney as a FA and figure out who is best at LG between Spain, XSF, and Finney.

PFF grades are nice and all, but Bobby Hart does not make guys next to him better. In fact, he needs help vs the better pass rushers. And part of that grade is he’s a good run blocker. His pass protection leaves a lot to be desired.

Even thinking about starting Finney is how we got into the trouble we are currently in. No. More. Scrubs. All 3 of those guys are backups on a good team.

Watched some highlights of Sewell to get an idea of what he was like in games, and boy howdy. That dude is a ferocious football playing SOB. He's just looking for guys to plant into the turf out there, and it looks easy for him.

I'd like him better if he came out of the SEC or Big 10 in terms of competition, but he did very well against Auburn's stellar d-line as well.

I'd be happy to have him here. If I trade out of the pick, I better get a lot and I better feel like I can definitely get Wyatt Davis with one of the picks I acquire. Otherwise, I want this dude in stripes.

(11-26-2020, 11:05 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: The Bengals have two solid starting tackles in WIlliams and Hart.  They also have two capable backup tackles in Adeniji and Johnson.  People will slam that and say "they suck" or that Sewell is the next Munoz, but that is my honest assessment.  Before everyone falls to in love with Sewell, he isn't seeing a murderers row of pass rushers in the awful Pac 12.

I think if you slide just a couple picks and get an additional 2nd rounder, but are still able to get Ja'marr Chase, then you do it.  I want Burrow surrounded with weapons and I want him protected.  This strategy is hingent upon them signing Joe Thuney to play RG.  He should be the #1 FA target.  Then, either Spain, Finney, or XSF can take the other guard spot.  

An additional third rounder might not sound like a lot, but it would be a top 75 pick based on where I would project them sliding.  

Of course, you need someone to want to trade, and have to be prepared for the scenario where there are no trade offers.  I would still take Chase at #3.  And I am not the least bit concerned that he took this season to prepare for the draft.  He will be fresh and is a massive talent.  Better than Green coming out of college.  Faster, with amazing routes and hands.  

That would be my hope. 

 
I can't imagine using Bobby Hart as a reason to pass on Sewell.

(11-26-2020, 12:46 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: PFF grades are nice and all, but Bobby Hart does not make guys next to him better. In fact, he needs help vs the better pass rushers. And part of that grade is he’s a good run blocker. His pass protection leaves a lot to be desired.

Even thinking about starting Finney is how we got into the trouble we are currently in. No. More. Scrubs. All 3 of those guys are backups on a good team.

Finney received $8 million from Seattle but never cracked their starting lineup.  I am not saying the guy is the next Zack Martin, but he deserves to be evaluated.  Spain looks to be very solid.  XSF has too small a sample size.  Note that the option I did not include was rolling with Jordan who has not shown the improvement necessary to remain a starter.  

Look at how Hart did his last game.  He was singled up on Myles Garrett a number of snaps and he graded out as the highest Bengal that game.  That narrative about him being helped just isn't accurate.  They also didn't help Williams with him very often.  They are letting them do more of the work. 

(11-27-2020, 12:00 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote:  
I can't imagine using Bobby Hart as a reason to pass on Sewell.

So are you willing to use the #3 overall pick in the draft on a RT?  

(11-27-2020, 11:36 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: So are you willing to use the #3 overall pick in the draft on a RT?  

Absolutely if it's a generational talent. The question is "Is Sewell that type of player ?"

(11-27-2020, 11:36 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: So are you willing to use the #3 overall pick in the draft on a RT?  

Jonah can move to RT. Which he played some at Alabama. Anyway, even if we did so what? Was big Willie not worth a top 10 pick?

(11-27-2020, 11:49 AM)masonbengals fan Wrote: Absolutely if it's a generational talent. The question is "Is Sewell that type of player ?"

I think Ja'Marr Chase is as well, and Burrow loves him.  

(11-27-2020, 11:53 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Jonah can move to RT. Which he played some at Alabama. Anyway, even if we did so what? Was big Willie not worth a top 10 pick?

Was AJ Green not worth #4 overall?  Either side can make this argument.  

(11-27-2020, 12:07 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Was AJ Green not worth #4 overall?  Either side can make this argument.  

You keep talking about how adequate Jonah and Hart are, but the same can be said for Boyd and Higgins. It’s not like WR is our biggest need either. I’m going BPA and that’s Sewell.

(11-27-2020, 11:36 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: So are you willing to use the #3 overall pick in the draft on a RT?  

Yes.

It all depends on what the Bengals blocking scheme is; if you're going to run strong side the majority of the time/design plays to take advantage of that, then you put Sewell at RT.

If you're going to make most of the offense go directionally via the LT, then you leave him at LT and move Jonah to RT.

Just going off of Jonah's skillset and comparisons to Joe Thomas, I would keep him at LT, but if we did get Sewell, it would all depend on how the scheme would accommodate him.

Let's the draft the guy first (hoping!), before we discuss this :)

(11-27-2020, 12:10 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You keep talking about how adequate Jonah and Hart are, but the same can be said for Boyd and Higgins. It’s not like WR is our biggest need either. I’m going BPA and that’s Sewell.

We need a dynamic WR to open up this offense.  Chase would be the Green or Chad to the TJ (Boyd) and Henry (Higgins).  We need a WR that strikes fear in defenses and pushes safeties back to open up the middle of the field.  Faster separation leads to less hits on Burrow.  People forget that this offensive line sucked when it last had Whitworth.  The front FIVE need to be solid, not just the center and the tackles.  

(11-27-2020, 12:12 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Yes.

It all depends on what the Bengals blocking scheme is; if you're going to run strong side the majority of the time/design plays to take advantage of that, then you put Sewell at RT.

If you're going to make most of the offense go directionally via the LT, then you leave him at LT and move Jonah to RT.

Just going off of Jonah's skillset and comparisons to Joe Thomas, I would keep him at LT, but if we did get Sewell, it would all depend on how the scheme would accommodate him.

Let's the draft the guy first (hoping!), before we discuss this :)

Let's get the #3 overall pick before we do anything else.  I know people say that is rooting to lose (and yes, I did it last year) and that makes you not a fan...whatever.  I want to evaluate more players and see who is worth keeping.  I want to see Markus Bailey play some LB in place of Bynes. I want to evaluate Winston Rose.  I want to see if there is a good G between Spain, Finney, and XSF.  

And I want Chase.  But, hey, I am the one that wanted Ross and thought he could really help this team so you have that to throw in my face for the next six months.  

I am not opposed to Sewell, but I really want Chase.  

(11-27-2020, 12:06 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I think Ja'Marr Chase is as well, and Burrow loves him.  

If I had to lay money on a guy in this draft to be a perennial Pro Bowler, it would be Chase.  He was a little better than Jefferson was last year, and we all see what he's doing as a rookie.  I think he's the safest pick.  At the same time, great OT's are a lot harder to find than great WR's nowadays.  However, they also tend to be very high bust risks.

As rookies, Chase is going to be a much bigger upgrade over Tate than Sewell is over Hart, in all likelihood.  On the other side of the coin, Hart is an UFA after next year and getting a premium prospect like Sewell for a year to groom to replace him is very attractive.  

Both are great prospects in position groups that need upgrades.  I would be extremely happy with either.  If we don't pony up to fix the OL in FA, though, I think we have to go Sewell.  If we get a couple of top shelf upgrades, like Thuney, I lean more towards Chase.  

(11-27-2020, 12:16 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: We need a dynamic WR to open up this offense.  Chase would be the Green or Chad to the TJ (Boyd) and Henry (Higgins).  We need a WR that strikes fear in defenses and pushes safeties back to open up the middle of the field.  Faster separation leads to less hits on Burrow. People forget that this offensive line sucked when it last had Whitworth. The front FIVE need to be solid, not just the center and the tackles.  

But we don’t necessarily have to take a WR in the first round to get a good speed guy. Marvin Jones was a 5th rounder. Look at some of the best young guys right now like DK Metcalf (2nd round) and Terry McLaurin (3rd round).

(11-27-2020, 12:38 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: But we don’t necessarily have to take a WR in the first round to get a good speed guy. Marvin Jones was a 5th rounder. Look at some of the best young guys right now like DK Metcalf (2nd round) and Terry McLaurin (3rd round).

McLaurin was a huge whiff, but it is his route-running that makes him special.  Chase is a phenomenal talent.  Just speed isn't what he offers.  John Ross offers that.  He is the whole package.  I suspect he will be rated higher than AJ Green when he came out.  Wouldn't we love a young AJ Green with Boyd and Higgins moving forward?  How are you going to put up 30 on pitt?  You need a strong #1...the Bengals have two #2s.  I love them both, but when the best defenses took Boyd and Higgins away, 9 points in two games.  

(11-27-2020, 12:40 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: McLaurin was a huge whiff, but it is his route-running that makes him special.  Chase is a phenomenal talent.  Just speed isn't what he offers.  John Ross offers that.  He is the whole package.  

I watched a ton of Chase last year (I was one of the first people banging the drum for Burrow along with Synric), so I’m well aware how good he is. I just think Sewell is better. I don’t see a talent like him being found very often in the later rounds like you can with a speed WR (Tyrek Hill for example).

(11-27-2020, 12:40 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: McLaurin was a huge whiff, but it is his route-running that makes him special.  Chase is a phenomenal talent.  Just speed isn't what he offers.  John Ross offers that.  He is the whole package.  I suspect he will be rated higher than AJ Green when he came out.  Wouldn't we love a young AJ Green with Boyd and Higgins moving forward?  How are you going to put up 30 on pitt?  You need a strong #1...the Bengals have two #2s.  I love them both, but when the best defenses took Boyd and Higgins away, 9 points in two games.  

Joe being sacked 4x (and I have no idea how many pressures) certainly didn’t help...

(11-27-2020, 12:54 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Joe being sacked 4x (and I have no idea how many pressures) certainly didn’t help...

That is part of my point.  KC doesn't have the best lines, it is that they have a mobile QB with IMMEDIATE options at receiver.  They are the most high-powered offense and that is what the Bengals need to beat the likes of pitt.  

Joe has to hold the ball waiting for an opening.  If there is one, he will find it.  If there isn't one, he will have to move in the pocket until one comes open or he gets hit.  I know it is a tough concept to grasp, but if you have Chase, HIggins, and Boyd out there, it will be very tough to blitz this team.  Whereas if you roll with the weapons you have, teams can always overload one side or blitz even if you have Sewell.  The ONLY times the Bengals had a strong chance against pitt was when they had major threat weapons.  

(11-27-2020, 01:33 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: That is part of my point.  KC doesn't have the best lines, it is that they have a mobile QB with IMMEDIATE options at receiver.  They are the most high-powered offense and that is what the Bengals need to beat the likes of pitt.  

Joe has to hold the ball waiting for an opening.  If there is one, he will find it.  If there isn't one, he will have to move in the pocket until one comes open or he gets hit.  I know it is a tough concept to grasp, but if you have Chase, HIggins, and Boyd out there, it will be very tough to blitz this team.  Whereas if you roll with the weapons you have, teams can always overload one side or blitz even if you have Sewell.  The ONLY times the Bengals had a strong chance against pitt was when they had major threat weapons.  

I think you’re underselling KC here. At full strength, the Chiefs do have a good line (losing Osemele hurts). They also have one of, if not the, greatest arm talent to play QB in NFL history with Mahomes. They have a plethora of speed at WR and an elite TE along to pair with Mahomes who can make pinpoint throws while scrambling around.

Burrow, while athletic, doesn’t possess that kind of physical prowess that Mahomes does (no one does, except for maybe Aaron Rodgers). Burrow does have plus athleticism and is accurate enough to be dangerous, but Burrow is going to be the most efficient, deadly version of himself while standing in the pocket. To me, that is the single most important thing for this offense; consistently protect Burrow and create a pocket. Sewell is a step in the right direction for that.

That isn’t to say I would be angry if we took Chase; I think it has to be Sewell or Chase and I would be happy with either, but I only want Chase if Sewell is gone.