(11-27-2020, 02:41 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: ....but no one was defending Taylor, like I said, Fred has been on ZT since last season. The national media largely ignores the Bengals. The people assigned to cover them, and the locals are who I listen to.

That's a lot of hits, sure. A lot of drop backs...and early on, Joe held the ball too long on several plays, but he learned fast that he couldn't do that in the NFL. Especially behind this line. They do tend to abandon run too early. However, when you're playing behind a lot, you throw a lot. The run game hasn't been much for years in Cincy. 

It's a message board, where we discuss things. No need to get touchy and personal...lol.

I didn't see the Washington game, but I know it was 9-7 and Joe had over 30 attempts when he went down. Impose your damn will on somebody and run the f'n ball. How Burrow was on pace to shatter the rookie record for attempts. That's beyond uncalled for.

If ZT were 4-21-1as the HC for the Steelers the media would be calling him a HoF coach.

(11-27-2020, 02:46 PM)jason Wrote: I didn't see the Washington game, but I know it was 9-7 and Joe had over 30 attempts when he went down. Impose your damn will on somebody and run the f'n ball. How Burrow was on pace to shatter the rookie record for attempts. That's beyond uncalled for.

What really flames me. On the series where he was injured Washington had downed a punt on our 2 yard line. 1st play, pass for like 5 yards. 2nd play, pass incomplete. 3rd play, pass Burrow busted up.

For the love of Gawd what HC is gonna ask his rookie QB who had already thrown 30 passes in the 1st half, to come out of his own endzone without calling a single run ?

(11-27-2020, 03:23 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If ZT were 4-21-1as the HC for the Steelers the media would be calling him a HoF coach.

Just good hard-nosed footbawl !!!!

(11-27-2020, 03:23 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If ZT were 4-21-1as the HC for the Steelers the media would be calling him a HoF coach.

Wrong, he wouldn't even last that long because despite the fact I despise that team they have a competent front office

(11-23-2020, 03:10 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Not to mention throwing the ball on 3 consecutive plays in the shadow of your own endzone with no room for QB to maneuver. 

I pretty much stopped reading here.

Awesome post.

Taylor has to go. He's obviously not up to the task.

Edit: Welp I meant to quote mantooths post. What I get for doing this on a cellphone. Maybe I'll fix it later. Maybe not. We could use some comic relief...

(11-27-2020, 02:46 PM)jason Wrote: I didn't see the Washington game, but I know it was 9-7 and Joe had over 30 attempts when he went down. Impose your damn will on somebody and run the f'n ball. How Burrow was on pace to shatter the rookie record for attempts. That's beyond uncalled for.

I watched it....they ran decent, but about like usual. I took a nap after Finley's first floater. They ran A LOT of plays though. Randy doinked a chip shot, missed a long one, missed an extra point. They were moving the ball well, and more than a few of those passes were quick hit/extension of the run game passes...but they moved the ball almost at will. 

(11-27-2020, 03:23 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If ZT were 4-21-1as the HC for the Steelers the media would be calling him a HoF coach.

Not possible.  The Steelers would never put up with this kind of losing from a HC, much less give him another year while maybe replacing an assistant or two.

We will need to sacrifice the 2021 season as well to figure out that we can't win with ZT.

(11-28-2020, 10:16 AM)2MinutesHate Wrote: Not possible.  The Steelers would never put up with this kind of losing from a HC, much less give him another year while maybe replacing an assistant or two.

We will need to sacrifice the 2021 season as well to figure out that we can't win with ZT.

Someone call the Rooney's!

(11-28-2020, 03:42 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: I watched it....they ran decent, but about like usual. I took a nap after Finley's first floater. They ran A LOT of plays though. Randy doinked a chip shot, missed a long one, missed an extra point. They were moving the ball well, and more than a few of those passes were quick hit/extension of the run game passes...but they moved the ball almost at will. 

The Bengals have moved the ball well all year between the 20 yard lines but in the Red Zone things break down.

(11-28-2020, 10:21 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: The Bengals have moved the ball well all year between the 20 yard lines but in the Red Zone things break down.

You're exactly right Fan. That's been a recurring issue for how long? Ya think it has anything to do with not being able to run the ball well consistently? IDK, that's my theory, but we've struggled in the red zone it seems for the last 3 or 4 years.

(11-28-2020, 10:28 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: You're exactly right Fan. That's been a recurring issue for how long? Ya think it has anything to do with not being able to run the ball well consistently? IDK, that's my theory, but we've struggled in the red zone it seems for the last 3 or 4 years.

The Bengals don’t run consistently because of inconsistent offensive line play. Lots of people, especially highly paid football analysts on television, forget the finer points of run blocking. If these analysts see the quarterback standing up after a play, they believe the offensive line succeeded. However, pass protection is only half the job! Okay, in Cincinnati maybe it’s 2/3 of the job since Zac Taylor dials up far too many pass plays.

This lopsided pass to run ratio causes problems in the run game. To succeed on the ground, an offense must establish a rhythm. If you want to see this done to absolute perfection, watch the Steelers with Le’Veon Bell or James Conner. Heck, watch Jim Brown on YouTube with Cleveland.

(11-28-2020, 10:35 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: The Bengals don’t run consistently because of inconsistent offensive line play.  Lots of people, especially highly paid football analysts on television, forget the finer points of run blocking.  If these analysts see the quarterback standing up after a play, they believe the offensive line succeeded.  However, pass protection is only half the job!  Okay, in Cincinnati maybe it’s 2/3 of the job since Zac Taylor dials up far too many pass plays.

This lopsided pass to run ratio causes problems in the run game.  To succeed on the ground, an offense must establish a rhythm. If you want to see this done to absolute perfection, watch the Steelers with Le’Veon Bell or James Conner.  Heck, watch Jim Brown on YouTube with Cleveland.

You've acknowledged my point....Whit and Zeit left, the run game went to shit. Mixon is a good runner, and what you say about the rhythm most likely applies to him. But without a guy like that running, the run game just hasn't been there much, and he even he gets shut down against good fronts.

(11-28-2020, 10:35 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: The Bengals don’t run consistently because of inconsistent offensive line play.  Lots of people, especially highly paid football analysts on television, forget the finer points of run blocking.  If these analysts see the quarterback standing up after a play, they believe the offensive line succeeded.  However, pass protection is only half the job!  Okay, in Cincinnati maybe it’s 2/3 of the job since Zac Taylor dials up far too many pass plays.

This lopsided pass to run ratio causes problems in the run game.  To succeed on the ground, an offense must establish a rhythm. If you want to see this done to absolute perfection, watch the Steelers with Le’Veon Bell or James Conner.  Heck, watch Jim Brown on YouTube with Cleveland.

I honestly thought they were running well enough on Sunday to stick with the backs a bit more.  Even Perine was getting yards when they gave it to him.  It's not like they were getting crushed and had to throw to score fast and close the gap.  Washington has a line full of really high-end picks, and if you let them pin their ears back, they'll get to you sooner or later.  The line o-line was okay in the first quarter, but the interior really started breaking down in the second.  Pressure from the inside is a quarterback nightmare because the d-tackle is in your lap almost out of nowhere.  

There were points in the season, like early vs Indy where they seemed to try and show more discipline in running it and it worked.  Tennessee was similar when the entire starting 5 went down and they looked as good as they did all year. This was a major indictment on Turner, IMO.  Zac just never had the will to stick to it and leave the Ferrari in the garage (Burrow) for a few more plays.

(11-28-2020, 11:09 AM)samhain Wrote: I honestly thought they were running well enough on Sunday to stick with the backs a bit more.  Even Perine was getting yards when they gave it to him.  It's not like they were getting crushed and had to throw to score fast and close the gap.  Washington has a line full of really high-end picks, and if you let them pin their ears back, they'll get to you sooner or later.  The line o-line was okay in the first quarter, but the interior really started breaking down in the second.  Pressure from the inside is a quarterback nightmare because the d-tackle is in your lap almost out of nowhere.  

There were points in the season, like early vs Indy where they seemed to try and show more discipline in running it and it worked.  Tennessee was similar when the entire starting 5 went down and they looked as good as they did all year.  Zac just never had the will to stick to it and leave the Ferrari in the garage (Burrow) for a few more plays.

Excellent observations.... absolutely correct. This was the Achilles heel of the 5 year playoff run.... pressure up the gut due to Bodine. 

(11-28-2020, 11:08 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: You've acknowledged my point....Whit and Zeit left, the run game went to shit. Mixon is a good runner, and what you say about the rhythm most likely applies to him. But without a guy like that running, the run game just hasn't been there much, and he even he gets shut down against good fronts.

Preach it, bro!

Joe Mixon is a good runner. He should be making rushing touchdowns every single game he plays. Giovani Bernard is also a good runner. He should be getting yardage in huge chunks. Samaje Perine in pretty much limited to north and south straight ahead rushing but if the line can open holes a runner like that can gash a defense.

For whatever it’s worth, I believe the run game would be better if the Bengals simply ran more often. Very few teams have successfully used the pass to set up the run for extended periods of time. Using the run to set up the pass provide a far more consistent offense, chews up the clock, and moves the chains between the red zones. If people do not believe the Bengals have a run game problem, look how many touchdowns are scored through the air vice how many touchdowns are scored on the ground. Cincinnati simply does not have the ability to punch the ball in from the goal line. Without this, a team cannot win.

(11-28-2020, 12:14 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Preach it, bro!

Joe Mixon is a good runner. He should be making rushing touchdowns every single game he plays. Giovani Bernard is also a good runner. He should be getting yardage in huge chunks. Samaje Perine in pretty much limited to north and south straight ahead rushing but if the line can open holes a runner like that can gash a defense.

For whatever it’s worth, I believe the run game would be better if the Bengals simply ran more often. Very few teams have successfully used the pass to set up the run for extended periods of time. Using the run to set up the pass provide a far more consistent offense, chews up the clock, and moves the chains between the red zones.  If people do not believe the Bengals have a run game problem, look how many touchdowns are scored through the air vice how many touchdowns are scored on the ground.  Cincinnati simply does not have the ability to punch the ball in from the goal line. Without this, a team cannot win.

Spot. On.

(11-28-2020, 12:14 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Preach it, bro!

Joe Mixon is a good runner. He should be making rushing touchdowns every single game he plays. Giovani Bernard is also a good runner. He should be getting yardage in huge chunks. Samaje Perine in pretty much limited to north and south straight ahead rushing but if the line can open holes a runner like that can gash a defense.

For whatever it’s worth, I believe the run game would be better if the Bengals simply ran more often. Very few teams have successfully used the pass to set up the run for extended periods of time. Using the run to set up the pass provide a far more consistent offense, chews up the clock, and moves the chains between the red zones.  If people do not believe the Bengals have a run game problem, look how many touchdowns are scored through the air vice how many touchdowns are scored on the ground.  Cincinnati simply does not have the ability to punch the ball in from the goal line. Without this, a team cannot win.

I figure the 09 year and Benson might have taught this organization something.  Carson wasn't at his healthiest, Chad was declining, and the offense would have killed to have the kind of weapons we have now with Higgins, Boyd, and AJ as the 3rd wr, lol.  What did they do?  They ran Benson like a scalded dog, and he pounded defenses into submission.  It helped keep CP active for the season and it won them more games than they had any business winning that year.  The line wasn't the great line of the early Palmer era, nor was it the stellar group from the Dalton era.  They had Whit, but they were largely in transition.  They could run block their asses off.  

I thought going into the LA game that they'd run it just to help keep Bosa from killing Joe early.  Zac was bound and determined to live and die by Joe's arm this year.  I know Joe probably was happy to oblige, but you have to have a coach smart enough to limit that than let him grow without getting beat up.  Running helps keep the pass rush in check, but when there's little threat that they'll even try, the opposing rushers are going to attack all day.  

(11-28-2020, 01:46 PM)samhain Wrote: I figure the 09 year and Benson might have taught this organization something.  Carson wasn't at his healthiest, Chad was declining, and the offense would have killed to have the kind of weapons we have now with Higgins, Boyd, and AJ as the 3rd wr, lol.  What did they do?  They ran Benson like a scalded dog, and he pounded defenses into submission.  It helped keep CP active for the season and it won them more games than they had any business winning that year.  The line wasn't the great line of the early Palmer era, nor was it the stellar group from the Dalton era.  They had Whit, but they were largely in transition.  They could run block their asses off.  

2009 was amazing. A team can’t sweep the AFC North without a strong rushing attack which makes me wonder why Zac Taylor has designed the Bengals to play in the NFC West.

The Bengals live and die, mostly die, by the quarterback except for 2009. Who was the offensive coordinator in 2009? Was it still Bratkowski? Whoever it was did the right thing by establishing the run and sticking with it.

(11-28-2020, 04:13 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: 2009 was amazing. A team can’t sweep the AFC North without a strong rushing attack which makes me wonder why Zac Taylor has designed the Bengals to play in the NFC West.

The Bengals live and die, mostly die, by the quarterback except for 2009. Who was the offensive coordinator in 2009? Was it still Bratkowski? Whoever it was did the right thing by establishing the run and sticking with it.

Yeah... Pretty sure Brat was still OC. Gruden got there in 2011.