Everyone else is barely above replacement level or worse. We only have 4 need 10 to 15 of these kind of players. Tee and Logan Wilson are only 2 to possibly get in that group.

(11-27-2020, 01:03 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Everyone else is barely above replacement level or worse. We only have 4 need 10 to 15 of these kind of players. Tee and Logan Wilson are only 2 to possibly get in that group.

Tee absolutely belongs in that group. As do Jonah and Reader.

I guess that explains the 2-7-1 record huh

(11-27-2020, 01:09 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I guess that explains the 2-7-1 record huh

Well, that and our coaching staff should be working at Starbucks.

(11-27-2020, 01:03 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Everyone else is barely above replacement level or worse. We only have 4 need 10 to 15 of these kind of players. Tee and Logan Wilson are only 2 to possibly get in that group.

I get what you are saying, but WJIII belongs on this list as well.  So does Sam Hubbard and Carl Lawson.  One of the biggest problems is the middle of the defensive line, and the entire defense suffers for it.

Get Reader back, have a healthy Mike Daniels, and add a stud draft pick and this unit will be solid quickly.  Already like Bell and Bates and they are doing it with little to no pressure from the front four, and that isn't all on the DEs.  

(11-27-2020, 01:03 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Everyone else is barely above replacement level or worse. 

I see that for the sake of whining you have not mentioned some of the players we have who are above replacement value.  Also failed to mention that no team in the league has 22 starters above replacement value.

The Bengals definitely need a lot of upgrades at a lot of positions.  But anyone claiming we have to turnover every position on the team except for four is spinning the truth to try and add more value to his victim card.

Trey Hopkins, Mackensie Alexander, WJIII, Sam Hubbard, Carl Lawson, Joe Mixon, DJ Reader, Germaine Pratt, Quinton Spain, Jonah Williams, Trae Waynes <-----  All of these guys would either be starters, rotational players, or in the very least high end backups on the most elite rosters in the league.  We're used to watching a roster that was carried by a handful of elite guys(Green, Atkins, Whit etc.), but not all good rosters are built that way.  You can do just fine without having a top 5 receiver if you have guys like Boyd and Higgins.  Guys like Hopkins and Spain can make a good OL unit if you have enough of them.  This roster really isn't that bad.  What is bad seems to be the planning and macro strategy.  Some of these defenders seem to be best suited for a 4 man front zone blitz scheme - not cover 1 man hybrid front whatever you'd call Lou's scheme.

(11-27-2020, 01:03 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Everyone else is barely above replacement level or worse. We only have 4 need 10 to 15 of these kind of players. Tee and Logan Wilson are only 2 to possibly get in that group.

I'm sorry, but the Bengals don't have a single LB that'd I'd deem a good starter right now. All are just meh at best.

(11-27-2020, 01:09 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Tee absolutely belongs in that group. As do Jonah and Reader.

Agree with this we have good players but need 2-3 impact player with the right coaching and system to get the most to them. Good teams have this and we won’t till we get rid of Lou ASAP

the talent is there, the problem that I see are 3 things:

1) injuries- hard to overcome, when Waynes, Mixon, Atkins, Reader, Burrow, and Uzomeh are basically missing from action.

2) Coaching- I'll give Taylor a pass, but Anarumo and Turner are just garbage, their schemes are not working.

3) Trenches- face it until we address our lack of blocking or a pass rush we will not be successful, especially in the AFC North.

(11-27-2020, 06:00 PM)schroomytunes Wrote: the talent is there, the problem that I see are 3 things:

1) injuries- hard to overcome, when Waynes, Mixon, Atkins, Reader, Burrow, and Uzomeh are basically missing from action.

2) Coaching- I'll give Taylor a pass, but Anarumo and Turner are just garbage, their schemes are not working.

3) Trenches- face it until we address our lack of blocking or a pass rush we will not be successful, especially in the AFC North.

 I agree with this. However, Taylor gets no pass. Players are saying he's got a locker room with a college like atmosphere.

Not what this team or any PRO team needs. He's to over the top trying to be a "players coach"

Relax - we have plenty of good players. The problem is scheme and coaching, not talent.

(11-27-2020, 05:08 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm sorry, but the Bengals don't have a single LB that'd I'd deem a good starter right now. All are just meh at best.

I believe that a lot of LBs in the NFL would look meh behind this starting front four.  It is no different than saying Mixon or Gio suck at rushing the ball when they don't have good run blocking.  LBs need to be clean to eat.  At least I have seen flashes from Logan Wilson and Germaine Pratt.  ADG looks like they packed too much weight on him and he lost his speed.  

(11-28-2020, 09:55 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I believe that a lot of LBs in the NFL would look meh behind this starting front four.  It is no different than saying Mixon or Gio suck at rushing the ball when they don't have good run blocking.  LBs need to be clean to eat.  At least I have seen flashes from Logan Wilson and Germaine Pratt.  ADG looks like they packed too much weight on him and he lost his speed.  

Pratt sucks.

I know things are rough right now, but Mixon, Reader, Higgins, Jonah, Hubbard, Lawson, and I'd even argue Gio belong on the list of non-crappy players. It's always nice to see Gio get more work, because he's easy to forget about when he's getting limited carries. He does a lot of positive things when utilized. Alexander and Spain could probably have arguments made for them, too. I'm not high on WJ3, but I think someone will think enough of him to shell out big money. Waynes could go into that group, too, but he needs to be on the field.

No team has badass players at every position, and conversely there are rosters crammed with talent that underachieve every year. I'm looking at you, Dallas. Coaching is a huge deal in this league and so is team culture. It's why "rebuilds are so short to non-existent in places like Baltimore, Pittsburgh, and NE. A quarterback that can be great for a decade or two means a lot, too.

Right now I think the roster needs one or two defensive playmakers and at least one really good OL to become legit. However, I still think getting a legit DC and a better OL coach, maybe even a true OC for play calling, are going to help more right now.

(11-27-2020, 05:03 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: Trey Hopkins, Mackensie Alexander, WJIII, Sam Hubbard, Carl Lawson, Joe Mixon, DJ Reader, Germaine Pratt, Quinton Spain, Jonah Williams, Trae Waynes <-----  All of these guys would either be starters, rotational players, or in the very least high end backups on the most elite rosters in the league.  We're used to watching a roster that was carried by a handful of elite guys(Green, Atkins, Whit etc.), but not all good rosters are built that way.  You can do just fine without having a top 5 receiver if you have guys like Boyd and Higgins.  Guys like Hopkins and Spain can make a good OL unit if you have enough of them.  This roster really isn't that bad.  What is bad seems to be the planning and macro strategy.  Some of these defenders seem to be best suited for a 4 man front zone blitz scheme - not cover 1 man hybrid front whatever you'd call Lou's scheme.

I agree that there is plenty of talent on the Bengals roster.  With proper coaching and schematic strategies applied, they have enough to field a winning unit.

If they do a shakeup in the coaching tree;  And by shakeup I mean replace Anarumo with a proven DC who knows how to optimize the personnel that he's given, rather than continuing to try to jamb square pegs into round holes.  Allow this DC to make changes among his assistants as he sees fit.

Same with the offense, Callahan and Turner need to go.  Getting the face of the franchise killed, getting our star RB hobbled by not having the best blockers on the team playing in their optimal positions, and running blocking schemes that they cannot effectively execute is completely inexcusable.

(11-27-2020, 01:39 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I get what you are saying, but WJIII belongs on this list as well.  So does Sam Hubbard and Carl Lawson.  One of the biggest problems is the middle of the defensive line, and the entire defense suffers for it.

Get Reader back, have a healthy Mike Daniels, and add a stud draft pick and this unit will be solid quickly.  Already like Bell and Bates and they are doing it with little to no pressure from the front four, and that isn't all on the DEs.  

This is how I see it as well. You need at least 7 quality guys rotating on the d-line. We also get Tupou back next year as a good run stuffer. But we really need that speed rusher specialist type guy. This would keep double teams off Lawson and allow Hubbard to kick inside on passing downs. Also someone has to pan out at linebacker eventually one would think.

(11-28-2020, 10:51 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I agree that there is plenty of talent on the Bengals roster.  With proper coaching and schematic strategies applied, they have enough to field a winning unit.

If they do a shakeup in the coaching tree;  And by shakeup I mean replace Anarumo with a proven DC who knows how to optimize the personnel that he's given, rather than continuing to try to jamb square pegs into round holes.  Allow this DC to make changes among his assistants as he sees fit.

Same with the offense, Callahan and Turner need to go.  Getting the face of the franchise killed, getting our star RB hobbled by not having the best blockers on the team playing in their optimal positions, and running blocking schemes that they cannot effectively execute is completely inexcusable.

While I totally agree with everything you say. Would a seasoned DC or OC come her under Taylor? I truly doubt that they would. I think it is pretty well known that he is in over his head and would not want to work with a clown. I think the only way we can get quality coordinators in here is to change head coaches.

(11-28-2020, 11:02 AM)WhodeyRay Wrote: While I totally agree with everything you say. Would a seasoned DC or OC come her under Taylor? I truly doubt that they would. I think it is pretty well known that he is in over his head and would not want to work with a clown. I think the only way we can get quality coordinators in here is to change head coaches.

I think that the defensive roster we were going to field, before all of the injuries struck, would be very attractive to many established Defensive Coordinators.

The same goes with the Offensive side of the ball.  The Bengals have some real talent at the skill positions, as well as enough capable blockers to put together a competent OL, if they were coached and managed correctly. Some will most definitely argue with me, but a healthy OL of Williams-Spain-Hopkins-Sua Filo-Hart would not only hold their own, but given time together, could even dominate some games.

If the Bengals aren't going to hire a GM, they need to at least continue with the positive changes they seemed to be making last offseason.  The next logical step is taking some pressure off of Zac Taylor by providing him with a pair of quality Coordinators to develop and maximize the talent of the players we have.

(11-28-2020, 11:18 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I think that the defensive roster we were going to field, before all of the injuries struck, would be very attractive to many established Defensive Coordinators.

The same goes with the Offensive side of the ball.  The Bengals have some real talent at the skill positions, as well as enough capable blockers to put together a competent OL, if they were coached and managed correctly. Some will most definitely argue with me, but a healthy OL of Williams-Spain-Hopkins-Sua Filo-Hart would not only hold their own, but given time together, could even dominate some games.

If the Bengals aren't going to hire a GM, they need to at least continue with the positive changes they seemed to be making last offseason.  The next logical step is taking some pressure off of Zac Taylor by providing him with a pair of quality Coordinators to develop and maximize the talent of the players we have.

I think you scrap the whole thing if you replace the coordinators.  Zac is so loyal and adamant about his turds, er, guys, that it would massively undermine him to toss them out in favor of experienced ones.  If he continued to flounder while one of the offense/defense flourished, then he'd likely be threatened by one of the new assistants in short order.  I think Zac would be a lame duck with new staff that he wasn't asking for.  Just gut it if you want to do that.  No half measures.