Guys, I'm starting to think this QB guru and offensive play calling genius we have as a head coach isn't that great without an elite QB like Burrow to call different plays at the line...

I think you might be on to something...

(11-30-2020, 09:55 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Guys, I'm starting to think this QB guru and offensive play calling genius we have as a head coach isn't that great without an elite QB like Burrow to call different plays at the line...

Not defending the coaching staff, but Allen simply held on to the ball for way too long and missed open guys by the boatload, not to mention he didn't use his checkdowns at all (like Brady yesterday; the amount of times Fournette was open underneath was insane). Gio-van did have the big drop, but he was consistently getting open in speace, for what would've been (conceivably) 5-6 yard gains, on 1st and 2nd down; I counted 5 instances and there were probably more.

I don't know if Allen was skittish or if he just didn't have any confidence, but something wasn't clicking between the ears and if Burrow was in the same situation, the ball would've been out so much earlier, so much more often.

Of course he was bad. Good QBs aren’t on practice squads. The team deciding to roll with Finley as a backup is a joke.

(11-30-2020, 10:56 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Not defending the coaching staff, but Allen simply held on to the ball for way too long and missed open guys by the boatload, not to mention he didn't use his checkdowns at all (like Brady yesterday; the amount of times Fournette was open underneath was insane). Gio-van did have the big drop, but he was consistently getting open in speace, for what would've been (conceivably) 5-6 yard gains, on 1st and 2nd down; I counted 5 instances and there were probably more.

I don't know if Allen was skittish or if he just didn't have any confidence, but something wasn't clicking between the ears and if Burrow was in the same situation, the ball would've been out so much earlier, so much more often.

This is on the coaching staff and management. Why do we not have a serviceable backup QB? Hell we saw Giants lose their QB yesterday and McCoy come in and at at least held serve and gave the Giants a win as opposed to how Finley cam in and the game was immediately lost for us.

I don't understand the thinking.

(11-30-2020, 11:10 AM)R3stangs Wrote: This is on the coaching staff and management. Why do we not have a serviceable backup QB? Hell we saw Giants lose their QB yesterday and McCoy come in and at at least held serve and gave the Giants a win as opposed to how Finley cam in and the game was immediately lost for us.

I don't understand the thinking.

TBF, McCoy played like absolute shit as well lol; it took until his 3rd completion to have positive yards

His only good pass on the day was the slant to... Shepherd, I think it was.

The depth on this team is so terrible. And unfortunately, due to the number of injuries, the depth is having to play for so many positions.
CB, DL, OL, TE, QB

(11-30-2020, 12:49 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: TBF, McCoy played like absolute shit as well lol; it took until his 3rd completion to have positive yards

His only good pass on the day was the slant to... Shepherd, I think it was.

The only reason they got anymore points was because we turned it over on our side of the field, twice. 

(11-30-2020, 10:56 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Not defending the coaching staff, but Allen simply held on to the ball for way too long and missed open guys by the boatload, not to mention he didn't use his checkdowns at all (like Brady yesterday; the amount of times Fournette was open underneath was insane). Gio-van did have the big drop, but he was consistently getting open in speace, for what would've been (conceivably) 5-6 yard gains, on 1st and 2nd down; I counted 5 instances and there were probably more.

I don't know if Allen was skittish or if he just didn't have any confidence, but something wasn't clicking between the ears and if Burrow was in the same situation, the ball would've been out so much earlier, so much more often.

Yea, that was odd that he never took the check down. I am not a play caller, so I can't say definitively how these things are worked out, but I would assume that the play caller determines the read order. So if ZT called a play where the primary read was, say, Tee Higgins, and then the second read was the tight end and then the third read was the check down and Allen kept getting caught on the first or second read and never got to the third read, then that's obviously a QB issue.

But if he KEEPS doing it I, as the play caller, would presumably begin to change the play call or alter the play call to make the check down the 2nd read. I would hope our play caller would do the same. 

There's no way that the coaches didn't point out to Allen on the sidelines "you see this play where you got sacked after holding the ball for 3.5 seconds. If you just checked it down, Gio would have gotten 8 yards. And that's a bit better than an 8 yard sack, don't you think?"

If he continued making the same mistake, eventually you have to wonder what the coaches are even saying to him.

Of course, maybe Allen is just uncoachable. Who's to say?
Maybe Finley is also uncoachable and our coaches are just really really really unlucky with how uncoachable the back up QBs are (disregarding the fact that they brought these guys in, but we'll look past that point for the moment).

I tend to think when problems persist between player switches, it is likely the system rather than the individual players. A systemic issue, so to speak. But that is a viewpoint that not everyone necessarily has.

(11-30-2020, 09:55 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Guys, I'm starting to think this QB guru and offensive play calling genius we have as a head coach isn't that great without an elite QB like Burrow to call different plays at the line...

Burrow won 2 lousy games.  Last year Dalton won 2 lousy games.  If Mahomes was on Bengals they would win 2 lousy games.  This team Stinks.  The worst Defense in NFL still, and The Worst Offensive Line In NFL since 2017 to Now.  No, the coaching isn't good passing every play, afraid to run, and getting QBs Killed.  THE FAKE GM Duck Tobin would have been fired from most teams, but The Browns consider him Family.  At the Top we have The Brown Family, a worthless lot that are nothing like The Great Paul Brown. 

Oh Boy, Burrow won 2 games and last year Dalton won 2 games.  I say no Quarterback ever could get more than 2 wins out of these awful Bungles.   Oh, people don't like team to be called The Bungles.  Well, that is what they are, The Bungles, The Fumbles, The Stumbles....and another 2 win season makes them some Humble Bumbles or Bungles.   The best QB ever could not get wins out of this sorry sack of shot they call a football team.  It is NOT a football team.  The O Line is a Walmart Discount Special Mike Brown got at 70 percent off discount.  

This is NOT The Bengals.  This is a Walmart Special version Mike Brown put together, and No QB ever could win with these awful players. 

(11-30-2020, 01:46 PM)kevin Wrote: Burrow won 2 lousy games.  Last year Dalton won 2 lousy games.  If Mahomes was on Bengals they would win 2 lousy games.  This team Stinks.  The worst Defense in NFL still, and The Worst Offensive Line In NFL since 2017 to Now.  No, the coaching isn't good passing every play, afraid to run, and getting QBs Killed.  THE FAKE GM Duck Tobin would have been fired from most teams, but The Browns consider him Family.  At the Top we have The Brown Family, a worthless lot that are nothing like The Great Paul Brown. 

Oh Boy, Burrow won 2 games and last year Dalton won 2 games.  I say no Quarterback ever could get more than 2 wins out of these awful Bungles.   Oh, people don't like team to be called The Bungles.  Well, that is what they are, The Bungles, The Fumbles, The Stumbles....and another 2 win season makes them some Humble Bumbles or Bungles.   The best QB ever could not get wins out of this sorry sack of shot they call a football team.  It is NOT a football team.  The O Line is a Walmart Discount Special Mike Brown got at 70 percent off discount.  

This is NOT The Bengals.  This is a Walmart Special version Mike Brown put together, and No QB ever could win with these awful players. 

Well, yea. I think we agree. The coaches (and ownership) suck.

We can't change the ownership but the coaches? We sure can.

(11-30-2020, 01:18 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Yea, that was odd that he never took the check down. I am not a play caller, so I can't say definitively how these things are worked out, but I would assume that the play caller determines the read order. So if ZT called a play where the primary read was, say, Tee Higgins, and then the second read was the tight end and then the third read was the check down and Allen kept getting caught on the first or second read and never got to the third read, then that's obviously a QB issue.

But if he KEEPS doing it I, as the play caller, would presumably begin to change the play call or alter the play call to make the check down the 2nd read. I would hope our play caller would do the same. 

There's no way that the coaches didn't point out to Allen on the sidelines "you see this play where you got sacked after holding the ball for 3.5 seconds. If you just checked it down, Gio would have gotten 8 yards. And that's a bit better than an 8 yard sack, don't you think?"

If he continued making the same mistake, eventually you have to wonder what the coaches are even saying to him.

Of course, maybe Allen is just uncoachable. Who's to say?
Maybe Finley is also uncoachable and our coaches are just really really really unlucky with how uncoachable the back up QBs are (disregarding the fact that they brought these guys in, but we'll look past that point for the moment).

I tend to think when problems persist between player switches, it is likely the system rather than the individual players. A systemic issue, so to speak. But that is a viewpoint that not everyone necessarily has.

Finley's problem isn't his decision making. It's the fact he can't throw the ball more than 3 yards accurately.

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(11-30-2020, 12:58 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The depth on this team is so terrible. And unfortunately, due to the number of injuries, the depth is having to play for so many positions.
CB, DL, OL, TE, QB

Depth has been an issue for years now.

(11-30-2020, 10:56 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Not defending the coaching staff, but Allen simply held on to the ball for way too long and missed open guys by the boatload, not to mention he didn't use his checkdowns at all (like Brady yesterday; the amount of times Fournette was open underneath was insane). Gio-van did have the big drop, but he was consistently getting open in speace, for what would've been (conceivably) 5-6 yard gains, on 1st and 2nd down; I counted 5 instances and there were probably more.

I don't know if Allen was skittish or if he just didn't have any confidence, but something wasn't clicking between the ears and if Burrow was in the same situation, the ball would've been out so much earlier, so much more often.

That but he's also terrible going thru progressions and reads. There are HS QB's that have a better presence on the field than this guy and it doesn't matter if he's not taken a snap this year or 3 years. The internal clock in the QB's head is so fundamental.

(11-30-2020, 12:49 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: TBF, McCoy played like absolute shit as well lol; it took until his 3rd completion to have positive yards

His only good pass on the day was the slant to... Shepherd, I think it was.

Don't disagree, but still miles above our backups.

Finley shouldn't even be in the NFL period.

At least we have a second kicker on the roster.

(11-30-2020, 03:03 PM)Destro Wrote: At least we have a second kicker on the roster.

Who's inactive, thus your jab is moot.

(11-30-2020, 03:07 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Who's inactive, thus your jab is moot.

I think the point is they could instead bring in a different QB and take Seibert's place on the roster.
Seibert is a weekly inactive, but they could make Finley or Allen inactive in his place.

If this team really cared that much about winning a game or two out of the remaining five, Kaepernick probably makes the most sense to take a gamble on.
He isn't highly accurate but he's more accurate than Allen or Finley, plus he can extend plays with his legs.

FWIW, I don't think it makes sense to bring in another QB for the rest of the season because I want Pick #3 for Sewell.
But I would consider Kaepernick, Fitzpatrick, Tyrod Taylor, Winston, or McCarron to back up Burrow for next year. Any of them would be better than Finley or Allen IMO.

Burrow is the only reason the team looked a little better this year over last season. It's not because the coaching staff is any better, because they're not. I will give the front office some props for all the money they spent in free agency, too bad injuries hit those FA's hard though.

(11-30-2020, 03:07 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Who's inactive, thus your jab is moot.

A roster spot is a roster spot, playing on game day or not. Having another player available who you don't have to decide to play until the morning of the game is valuable. How about 5 inactive kickers then, since it is so moot? Compete in the morning, best kicker plays and the rest are inactive. 

Another QB, O-lineman, LB, DT, etc. in the building. Can learn the playbook, be at practice, and if he beats out any one of the dumpster fires we roll out, give them the start. Nope, second kicker collecting a Cincinnati Bengals paycheck for several weeks is what this team needs.