(12-01-2020, 02:04 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You can chose the home announcers for either team.  I listen to Lap and Hoard.

I can't believe 700 allows ESPN to carry their audio feed.  They're not an affiliate network.

As of pretty recently, you couldn't even listen to the live broadcast on WLW's own website.  It would be blacked out, and you'd get a rerun from an earlier show.  Your only option was the regular old radio if you wanted Dan and Lap.

I got stuck with this predicament countless with UC bball games when I was staying late at the office.  Had to actually buy a radio because 700 won't carry protected content on their live stream.

(12-01-2020, 02:16 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: He did show some good hands on several catches in college so the perception was he could be a good pass catcher. But it's the Bengals, so of course it hasn't panned out. 

To put that in perspective, Thad Moss had 47 receptions for LSU last year. And they obviously has 2 absolute studs at WR. That’s one more reception than Sample had in all 4 years.

(12-01-2020, 01:29 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Don't be so cheap.  Just use ESPN and pay for it.

Your telling him not to be cheap , but at the same time you use espn to listen to the games ? No wonder you think Sample is great you haven't seen him play all year.   Fred quit being cheap and pay for the NFL direct tv ticket.   Sample still sucks and should be upgraded lucky for him oline n dline are a priority  

(12-01-2020, 02:26 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Your telling him not to be cheap , but at the same time you use espn to listen to the games ? No wonder you think Sample is great you haven't seen him play all year.   Fred quit being cheap and pay for the NFL direct tv ticket.   Sample still sucks and should be upgraded lucky for him oline n dline are a priority  

I stream the games when they aren't on a local station.  DIRECT TV will never see another dime of my money.

You can also listen to NFL games on TuneIn radio (https://tunein.com/).
It's $10/month or $100 for the year.

They have plenty of other things on there besides NFL games, so it's probably worth a listen.
I don't personally have it because I watch(ed) the games on NFL Game Pass on a delay, but I heard it's a good option for those who want to listen live and can't get 700 WLW (or at least a clear sound).

(11-30-2020, 09:56 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I don’t have access to them, but his overall grade is 57.4. That’s pretty bad, and doesn’t really fit with the “but we have tons of players that are way worse” I’ve seen several times in this thread. I mean, is he better than Billy Price and Michael Jordan? Sure. But that’s an awful low bar.

Starters/Spot Starters/Key Rotational players with worse PFF grades than Sample...

Michael Jordan
Quentin Spain
Hakeem Adeniji
Billy Price
Fred Johnson
Sam Hubbard
Christian Covington
Amani Bledsoe
Josh Bynes
Germaine Pratt
Logan Wilson
Akeem Davis-Gaither
Darius Phillips
LeShaun Sims

What's bad about it is most people are happy and talking up the play of guys like Wilson, Spain, and Adeniji, but they grade worse than Sample.  Hubbard has higher expectations than any of these guys, but he's not getting call out threads, either.


Sample was overdrafted and is by no means a great player, but it just seems people are being overly critical in their evaluations simply because he was an unpopular pick.  

(11-16-2020, 02:09 PM)impactplaya Wrote: So far ZT system is flawed. Ive seen 24 games so far to be convinced.
Are you aware that the best offenses in the AFC use the TE as
A focal point of their passing game?
When defenses scheme against the Bengals they dont
Worry about Sample therefore their LBers and free saftey can either spy on the rb leaking out or they can help.in bracket
Coverage.
Sample is a bum. He makes JP Foshi look like Bob Trumpy.
He offers nothing in controlling the middle of the field 

We took Sample for his blocking abilities not catching. We drafted high for TE one dimensional. Who Dey

(12-01-2020, 02:05 PM)Whatever Wrote: Starters/Spot Starters/Key Rotational players with worse PFF grades than Sample...

Michael Jordan
Quentin Spain
Hakeem Adeniji*
Billy Price
Fred Johnson
Sam Hubbard
Christian Covington
Amani Bledsoe
Josh Bynes
Germaine Pratt
Logan Wilson*
Akeem Davis-Gaither*
Darius Phillips
LeShaun Sims

What's bad about it is most people are happy and talking up the play of guys like Wilson, Spain, and Adeniji, but they grade worse than Sample.  Hubbard has higher expectations than any of these guys, but he's not getting call out threads, either.


Sample was overdrafted and is by no means a great player, but it just seems people are being overly critical in their evaluations simply because he was an unpopular pick.  

Heard a lot of excuses last year about not being able to judge a player in his rookie season, so I guess the guys with an asterisk don’t count...

Hubbard has been just as disappointing as the rest of the DL. Would it make you happy if there was a thread to criticize him?

(12-01-2020, 03:28 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Heard a lot of excuses last year about not being able to judge a player in his rookie season, so I guess the guys with an asterisk don’t count...

Hubbard has been just as disappointing as the rest of the DL. Would it make you happy if there was a thread to criticize him?

I'm not going to come down too hard on rookies.  At the same time , it's unfair for people to talk up Wilson and Adeniji and trash Sample as a bum when he's outperforming them.  

(12-01-2020, 04:57 PM)Whatever Wrote: I'm not going to come down too hard on rookies.  At the same time , it's unfair for people to talk up Wilson and Adeniji and trash Sample as a bum when he's outperforming them.  

They're rookies, who had no offseason, and one was a 3rd round pick and the other was a 6th round pick.

Drew Sample is a 2nd year, 2nd round pick that has a full season under his belt.  Complete with OTA's, a minicamp, training camp, a full year of normal practices, and 9 games of experience heading into 2020.

It's totally fair to hold him to entirely different standard than lower drafted players who were thrown to the wolves after some Zoom meetings, and two weeks of non-contact practice.

(12-01-2020, 02:05 PM)Whatever Wrote: Starters/Spot Starters/Key Rotational players with worse PFF grades than Sample...

Michael Jordan Bum
Quentin Spain Just got here
Hakeem Adeniji Low round rookie
Billy Price  Bum
Fred Johnson Bum
Sam Hubbard Only player that concerns me on this list
Christian Covington Bum
Amani Bledsoe Bum
Josh Bynes Bum
Germaine Pratt Bum
Logan Wilson Rookie
Akeem Davis-Gaither Rookie
Darius Phillips Bum
LeShaun Sims Bum

What's bad about it is most people are happy and talking up the play of guys like Wilson, Spain, and Adeniji, but they grade worse than Sample.  Hubbard has higher expectations than any of these guys, but he's not getting call out threads, either.


Sample was overdrafted and is by no means a great player, but it just seems people are being overly critical in their evaluations simply because he was an unpopular pick.  

This is how I read this list (see bold).  I'm not writing this to be cute or to be a dick. 

I honestly think we just have a different opinion of the word "bum".  I use it all the time to describe someone who is below average at their postion.  Bobby Hart?  He's a bum.  Michael Thomas?  Another bum.

Bums are just guys that I think are basically bodies.  In the grand scheme of things, they're nobodies.  They're no one you want to build your team around, and you certainly don't want them starting if you can avoid it.

I see this list as a huge collection of bums, a few rookies, and a guy in Quinton Spain that's been here for like two weeks, and who has played sparingly in a new system.  The rookies and Spain's are TBD, but they're not bums.

The only name on here I hate seeing is Sam Hubbard.  He most certainly is not a bum.  But I don't put so much stock into PFF that I'm going to change my opinion on him.

I'm NOT saying Drew Sample is the most terrible player ever.  I'm just saying he's not much different that a bunch of other below average, interchangable, backup tight ends that float around the league, without ever accompishing much.  

I feel like his value is that of a low pick/UDFA/sign for super cheap off the street type of guy. What he's not, and never should be, is a 2nd round pick or TE1.

(12-01-2020, 05:18 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: This is how I read this list (see bold).  I'm not writing this to be cute or to be a dick. 

I honestly think we just have a different opinion of the word "bum".  I use it all the time to describe someone who is below average at their postion.  

You may not mean to be a cute or a dick, but you sure sound pretty stupid saying that guys like Jalen Davis are on the same level as half of the starting CBs in the league.


It is pretty damn hard to earn a starting position as a CB in the NFL.  Calling half of them bums is ridiculous.

Akeem Davis Gaither — slow rookie bum

(12-01-2020, 06:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You may not mean to be a cute or a dick, but you sure sound pretty stupid saying that guys like Jalen Davis are on the same level as half of the starting CBs in the league.


It is pretty damn hard to earn a starting position as a CB in the NFL.  Calling half of them bums is ridiculous.

Jalen Davis?  Did I bring him up?  Where did I say anywhere that Jalen Davis is on the same level as half the starting CB's in the league?

Did you mean to quote someone else?

(12-01-2020, 05:04 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: They're rookies, who had no offseason, and one was a 3rd round pick and the other was a 6th round pick.

Drew Sample is a 2nd year, 2nd round pick that has a full season under his belt.  Complete with OTA's, a minicamp, training camp, a full year of normal practices, and 9 games of experience heading into 2020.

It's totally fair to hold him to entirely different standard than lower drafted players who were thrown to the wolves after some Zoom meetings, and two weeks of non-contact practice.

Sample doesn't have a full year under his belt.  He played 9 games last year before going on IR.

It's fair to hold him to a higher standard.  It's not fair to to say he's terrible while talking up other guys that aren't playing as well.

(12-01-2020, 05:18 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I'm NOT saying Drew Sample is the most terrible player ever.  I'm just saying he's not much different that a bunch of other below average, interchangable, backup tight ends that float around the league, without ever accompishing much.  

I feel like his value is that of a low pick/UDFA/sign for super cheap off the street type of guy. What he's not, and never should be, is a 2nd round pick or TE1.

It's getting to the point where I mostly agree. Is it totally out of the question he can improve ? no

But I'm doubting it, a lot.

(12-01-2020, 06:29 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Jalen Davis?  Did I bring him up?  Where did I say anywhere that Jalen Davis is on the same level as half the starting CB's in the league?

Did you mean to quote someone else?

You said every player except above average starters are bums.  That means half the starting CBs are bums just like Jalen Davis.

(12-01-2020, 06:37 PM)Whatever Wrote: 1.) Sample doesn't have a full year under his belt.  He played 9 games last year before going on IR.

2.) It's fair to hold him to a higher standard.  It's not fair to to say he's terrible while talking up other guys that aren't playing as well.

1.) He's got a full year under his belt in the system. (OTA's, minicamp, training camp, a full year's worth of film and study).  That coupled with dozens and dozens of extra practices in '19, and 9 live games of experience, puts greatly ahead of the curve when compared to those rookies.

2.) But you won't find me "talking up" any of those guys on your list.  Unlike some people on here, I'm not ready to pencil in Wilson or Davis-Gaither as anything other than unknowns.  In fact, I've ripped Davis-Gaither quite a bit, and have described him as looking slow as shit.  I've described Wilson as potentially being a decent starter, but having to wait and see.

(12-01-2020, 07:01 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: 1.) He's got a full year under his belt in the system. (OTA's, minicamp, training camp, a full year's worth of film and study).  That coupled with dozens and dozens of extra practices in '19, and 9 live games of experience, puts greatly ahead of the curve when compared to those rookies.

2.) But you won't find me "talking up" any of those guys on your list.  Unlike some people on here, I'm not ready to pencil in Wilson or Davis-Gaither as anything other than unknowns.  In fact, I've ripped Davis-Gaither quite a bit, and have described him as looking slow as shit.  I've described Wilson as potentially being a decent starter, but having to wait and see.

I wonder if the Lions fans are outraged that TJ Hockenson isn't eclipsing Travis Kelce type numbers yet, seeing they spent the #8 pick on him in 2019?

(12-01-2020, 07:01 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: 1.) He's got a full year under his belt in the system. (OTA's, minicamp, training camp, a full year's worth of film and study).  That coupled with dozens and dozens of extra practices in '19, and 9 live games of experience, puts greatly ahead of the curve when compared to those rookies.

2.) But you won't find me "talking up" any of those guys on your list.  Unlike some people on here, I'm not ready to pencil in Wilson or Davis-Gaither as anything other than unknowns.  In fact, I've ripped Davis-Gaither quite a bit, and have described him as looking slow as shit.  I've described Wilson as potentially being a decent starter, but having to wait and see.

switching gears back to Hubbard....The guy is one of those try hard, good character dudes that can be effective if he has real talent around him...which unfortunately for him does not exist on this team. If we can get some guys back like Reader, Waynes and add some real talent on the Dline, Edge, LB in next yrs draft and FA market, I think Hubbard will do what he did his 1st 2 yrs...other then that dare I say.....hes a "bum" too?   I really do not notice him out there.