I keep seeing people want Brady as HC and I can't fathom why? LIke I get, Burrow had a great college season with Brady as his "passing game coordinator" but dude has only been in the NFL for 2 and a half seasons; he's in the middle of his 3rd season on an NFL coaching staff.

Granted, he definitely seems to be a better offensive coordinator than Zac was at any level, but aside from that, dude has LESS EXPERIENCE coaching in the NFL than Zac Taylor. And we can see what that's gotten Zac.

Bengals need to not follow up an experience-lacking HC for one with even LESS experience.

I'm with you. The move was to fire Callahan going into this past offseason and make Brady OC.

Brady might be a good HC someday, but not here. We're not an organization that can mentor an inexperienced guy.

Heck - Shula, Lebeau, Coslett, and Taylor failed here. Marvin was the only one who had some type of success.

Shula actually had some OC experience with Dallas. So Shula started his coaching career coaching on his dad's staff. Taylor coached on his father-in-law Mike Sherman's Staff. Eerily similar.

I think we need to find someone who came into a D1 program and rebuilt the culture/structure there. Or an NFL guy who has successfully done that. Even if we find that, I don't know if management will let them make changes.

(12-08-2020, 11:31 AM)PhilHos Wrote: I keep seeing people want Brady as HC and I can't fathom why? LIke I get, Burrow had a great college season with Brady as his "passing game coordinator" but dude has only been in the NFL for 2 and a half seasons; he's in the middle of his 3rd season on an NFL coaching staff.

Granted, he definitely seems to be a better offensive coordinator than Zac was at any level, but aside from that, dude has LESS EXPERIENCE coaching in the NFL than Zac Taylor. And we can see what that's gotten Zac.

Bengals need to not follow up an experience-lacking HC for one with even LESS experience.

I think Burrow showing he can be good with Taylor shows he doesn't need Joe Brady.

In terms of where I would put Brady on the HC wish list, I definitely have him behind the following:
- Jim Harbaugh, HC Michigan (if Harbaugh is fired by Michigan)
- Matt Eberflus, DC Colts
- Robert Saleh, DC 49ers
- Eric Bieniemy, OC Chiefs
- Arthur Smith, OC Titans
- maybe Brian Daboll, OC Bills (I still remember how bad he was as OC with Browns, but he seems better now a decade later with Bills)
- maybe Greg Roman, OC Ravens (Guy has a lot of success with heavy rushing attacks and mobile QBs, would Bengals fit if he pushed for that style of offense?)

I'm sure there are others I'm not thinking of, but these guys above are the ones that most easily come to mind.

(12-08-2020, 11:48 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I think Burrow showing he can be good with Taylor shows he doesn't need Joe Brady.

In terms of where I would put Brady on the HC wish list, I definitely have him behind the following:
- Jim Harbaugh, HC Michigan (if Harbaugh is fired by Michigan)
- Matt Eberflus, DC Colts
- Robert Saleh, DC 49ers
- Eric Bieniemy, OC Chiefs
- Arthur Smith, OC Titans
- maybe Brian Daboll, OC Bills (I still remember how bad he was as OC with Browns, but he seems better now a decade later with Bills)
- maybe Greg Roman, OC Ravens (Guy has a lot of success with heavy rushing attacks and mobile QBs, would Bengals fit if he pushed for that style of offense?)

I'm sure there are others I'm not thinking of, but these guys above are the ones that most easily come to mind.

I kind of like Roman myself too.

Harbaugh, Bieniemy, Roman, Eberflus would be my 4 from that list.

Of course, the Bengals tried to interview McDaniels last time and he declined. So I'm sure they'd want him again.

I'd argue against a Defensive minded HC.

If a healthy Burrow is as good as we hope, then we will lose a OC every year and he'll be learning a new system every time we turn around and that isn't good.

So I think an Offensive minded one is still the best route.

(12-08-2020, 11:54 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I kind of like Roman myself too.

Harbaugh, Bieniemy, Roman, Eberflus would be my 4 from that list.

Of course, the Bengals tried to interview McDaniels last time and he declined. So I'm sure they'd want him again.

Personally, I would never bother with Josh McDaniels after the stuff he's done recently in regards to being HC. Dude can't be trusted to stick around.

(12-08-2020, 11:48 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I think Burrow showing he can be good with Taylor shows he doesn't need Joe Brady.

In terms of where I would put Brady on the HC wish list, I definitely have him behind the following:
- Jim Harbaugh, HC Michigan (if Harbaugh is fired by Michigan)
- Matt Eberflus, DC Colts
- Robert Saleh, DC 49ers
- Eric Bieniemy, OC Chiefs
- Arthur Smith, OC Titans
- maybe Brian Daboll, OC Bills (I still remember how bad he was as OC with Browns, but he seems better now a decade later with Bills)
- maybe Greg Roman, OC Ravens (Guy has a lot of success with heavy rushing attacks and mobile QBs, would Bengals fit if he pushed for that style of offense?)

I'm sure there are others I'm not thinking of, but these guys above are the ones that most easily come to mind.

I like your list, but Joe Brady shouldn't even be on a HC wish list is my point. Not yet, anyway. 

Not saying I agree but the reason is that Burrow is the franchise and we need to do everything to make him happy and want to be here long term. I imagine this is a coach that he would be thrilled with. Just an assumption.

Also the hope is that Brady is smart enough to realize that he doesn't have the experience and surround himself with veteran coordinators. The arrogance of ZT as an inexperienced HC thinking that he can also be the OC and not surround himself with other established coaches.

(12-08-2020, 11:31 AM)PhilHos Wrote: I keep seeing people want Brady as HC and I can't fathom why? LIke I get, Burrow had a great college season with Brady as his "passing game coordinator" but dude has only been in the NFL for 2 and a half seasons; he's in the middle of his 3rd season on an NFL coaching staff.

Granted, he definitely seems to be a better offensive coordinator than Zac was at any level, but aside from that, dude has LESS EXPERIENCE coaching in the NFL than Zac Taylor. And we can see what that's gotten Zac.

Bengals need to not follow up an experience-lacking HC for one with even LESS experience.

This biggest difference is, Brady has had success in all the roles he's held at college and pro level, Taylor failed at every role he had. The FO wanted a young offensive minded coach, Brady would give them what they thought they are getting in Taylor.

(12-08-2020, 12:56 PM)BleedNOrange Wrote: Not saying I agree but the reason is that Burrow is the franchise and we need to do everything to make him happy and want to be here long term.  I imagine this is a coach that he would be thrilled with.  Just an assumption.

Burrow is not a diva. He's a professional and he'll do his best no matter who's his coach. If you (not YOU you, since you're saying you don't agree) want to make him happy, then you're saying you'd be fine with Zac coming back another year as Burrow is happy with Zac.

Fact is, winning cures all. Burrow wouldn't give one God damn who the head coach is if they're winning championships together.

(12-08-2020, 12:59 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: This biggest difference is, Brady has had success in all the roles he's held at college and pro level, Taylor failed at every role he had. The FO wanted a young offensive minded coach, Brady would give them what they thought they are getting in Taylor.

Doesn't matter. Brady has been an NFL coach for only 3 years once this season is over. And he's NEVER been a head coach anywhere. Sure, the teams he's been on may have been better than the ones Zac was on, but the fact remains that Brady has less experience and is less qualified to be HC than Zac was and Zac was arguably not qualified to be a HC (at the time he was hired).

(12-08-2020, 01:15 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Doesn't matter. Brady has been an NFL coach for only 3 years once this season is over. And he's NEVER been a head coach anywhere. Sure, the teams he's been on may have been better than the ones Zac was on, but the fact remains that Brady has less experience and is less qualified to be HC than Zac was and Zac was arguably not qualified to be a HC (at the time he was hired).

There have been plenty of successful NFL head coaches that weren’t head coaches before, that came from the coordinator ranks. Just because ZT is a failure it does not mean all other coordinators will be failures.

Having a resume that shows success versus one that shows failure is how you should hire. The FO looked at ZT’s resume saw failure after failure and went “meh, at least you know Sean McVay”.

(12-08-2020, 02:04 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: There have been plenty of successful NFL head coaches that weren’t head coaches before, that came from the coordinator ranks. Just because ZT is a failure it does not mean all other coordinators will be failures.

Having a resume that shows success versus one that shows failure is how you should hire. The FO looked at ZT’s resume saw failure after failure and went “meh, at least you know Sean McVay”.

Okay, but Brady doesn't even really HAVE a resume. An offensive assistant on the Saints for 2 years and OC on the Panthers for 1 year (when this season is over) is not exactly what you're looking for as a HC. That's not even taking into account the Panthers offense hasn't been anything great or special this year under Brady.

(12-08-2020, 02:56 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Okay, but Brady doesn't even really HAVE a resume. An offensive assistant on the Saints for 2 years and OC on the Panthers for 1 year (when this season is over) is not exactly what you're looking for as a HC. That's not even taking into account the Panthers offense hasn't been anything great or special this year under Brady.

And a year as an OC for an SEC team that won the national championship and produced the greatest college QB season of all-time. Ever looked up what Zac did as a college OC?

Not a 100% sure how much of the Panthers offense is Brady’s offense or Rhule’s offense.

(12-08-2020, 02:56 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Okay, but Brady doesn't even really HAVE a resume. An offensive assistant on the Saints for 2 years and OC on the Panthers for 1 year (when this season is over) is not exactly what you're looking for as a HC. That's not even taking into account the Panthers offense hasn't been anything great or special this year under Brady.

Good post for discussion sake, Phil. I think most of us understand the Brady/Burrow connection. That's probably not a bad thing. They have experience working with one another. Ts, he's actually done a hella good job in Carolina, IMHO.

Everyone needs to realize that he's been without one of, if not the best offensive weapon in the NFL, Christian McCaffrey! If McCaffrey had stayed healthy, their record would probably be quite a bit better. Losing McCaffrey is akin to KC losing Mahomes. That's one hell of a loss.

I like what I have seen from him. I'm not beating the drum to bring him here, but I think comparing Zac to Joe Brady is apples and oranges. I also tend to think that our JB would probably be elated to be reunited with him.

The fact is that it is almost impossible for us to judge which coaches will make a great head coach. The ability to be a successful coordinator is not always indicative of the ability to be a head coach. It doesn't hurt to have a good head when it comes to scheme, but the skill set required to be a head coach is much broader. Some of the most successful coordinators of all time have been complete failures as head coaches. (Buddy Ryan, Dick LeBeau. Marty Morninhinweg, etc). On the other hand Andy Reid had never even been a coordinator before becoming one of the greatest head coaches in NFL history and John Harbaugh was just a special teams coordinator before the Ravens hired him as head coach.

The buzz for head coach candidates generally come from within the NFL coaching community. So many coaches move around and work with so many other coaches on their way up the ladder that they have an eye for who has the skills to be a good head coach. NFL coaches are more of s fraternity than a bunch of sworn enemies. So when a team starts looking for a new head coach they generally start networking among other coaches and front offices.

(12-08-2020, 03:11 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: And a year as an OC for an SEC team that won the national championship and produced the greatest college QB season of all-time. Ever looked up what Zac did as a college OC?

Not a 100% sure how much of the Panthers offense is Brady’s offense or Rhule’s offense.

Difference is night and day when comparing Brady to Zac. In fact I don't think there are many comparisons at all. Perhaps age and years of experience. Ts, Brady is definitely further along on most levels of coaching.

I'm still on the Pete Carmichael Jr. wagon.

Carmichael has been the OC for one of the most dominate NFL Offenses for over a decade under one of the best Offensive minded Head Coaches. He has play calling experience without Sean Payton (suspension) and called one of the top 3 offenses.

This guy deserves a shot as a head coach and it's a system Joe Burrow knows... through Joe Brady who was one of Carmichael's assistants.

I’d take Brady as OC, as long as Bienemy is HC

(12-08-2020, 03:47 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: I’d take Brady as OC, as long as Bienemy is HC

Bienemy may have hed coaching skills, but his OC success is nothing but riding on Andy Reid's coattails.

Talk about a luck.  He was RB coach when the Vikings had Adrian Peterson and now he became OC for the Chiefs when they have Patrick Mahommes and Andy Reid.

The two years he was OC at Colorado ('11-'12) their offense sucked.