So I see debates on if he'll be back to start the year or not. To me that is irrelevant. I mean, I'd love for him to start the year, but there is a bigger consideration. Generally injuries like he has either heal at a normal pace or slower. (Sorry there are no superhuman healers to knee surgery.) With the rehab experts he is surrounded by, I'd guess he'll heal at the normal pace which would be the lower end of the 9-12 month mark.

So Burrow was great on intermediate throws and shorter. But, he was pretty bad on deep throws. Now we can blame receivers, etc. but some of it is on him. Maybe timing was off because of covid offseason.

I have no doubt that he would have worked on arm strength and mechanics over the offseason and came back much better. (A lot of QB's have a jump in performance between years 1 and 2.) But, due to this injury, he won't have that chance to work with throwing specialists and work with his receivers to develop timing as much as he would if he were healthy.

Because of this injury, Burrow will likely come back hopefully at the same level he ended this year on and not get that jump.

IF this is the only injury like this of his career, maybe not a big deal. But, look at guys injured a lot like Wentz who regress.

I'm not extremely concerned about 1 injury, but this is the 1st step to ruining a QB. It will take A LOT more to ruin him though. Burrow just has a ton of talent and with the right coaching staff, he could be really special.

(12-09-2020, 11:22 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So I see debates on if he'll be back to start the year or not. To me that is irrelevant. I mean, I'd love for him to start the year, but there is a bigger consideration. Generally injuries like he has either heal at a normal pace or slower. (Sorry there are no superhuman healers to knee surgery.) With the rehab experts he is surrounded by, I'd guess he'll heal at the normal pace which would be the lower end of the 9-12 month mark.

So Burrow was great on intermediate throws and shorter. But, he was pretty bad on deep throws. Now we can blame receivers, etc. but some of it is on him. Maybe timing was off because of covid offseason.

I have no doubt that he would have worked on arm strength and mechanics over the offseason and came back much better. (A lot of QB's have a jump in performance between years 1 and 2.) But, due to this injury, he won't have that chance to work with throwing specialists and work with his receivers to develop timing as much as he would if he were healthy.

Because of this injury, Burrow will likely come back hopefully at the same level he ended this year on and not get that jump.

IF this is the only injury like this of his career, maybe not a big deal. But, look at guys injured a lot like Wentz who regress.

I'm not extremely concerned about 1 injury, but this is the 1st step to ruining a QB. It will take A LOT more to ruin him though. Burrow just has a ton of talent and with the right coaching staff, he could be really special.

We will see what the front office does in FA. If they do not sign a high quality guard, they are just blowing smoke.

Joe Burrow's greatest attribute is between his ears. I have little doubt that he at least comes back to where he was. He can study some mechanics, and throw some as he progresses through his rehab. Even Alex Smith was throwing some with his leg.

I agree no one is superhuman, but for all of the horror stories, you can also point to guys like AP and our own Gio as crazy success stories with knee reconstruction.

(12-09-2020, 11:46 AM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: We will see what the front office does in FA. If they do not sign a high quality guard, they are just blowing smoke.

They almost have to sign a Guard.

I think the real question that will show if they're committed to winning is if they fire this staff. There are no teams in the NFL that would bring Taylor back for year 3.

Look at a guy who got fired this year: Matt Patricia who was 13-29-1. Taylor would have to win 9 more games to get to that.

(12-09-2020, 11:22 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So I see debates on if he'll be back to start the year or not. To me that is irrelevant. I mean, I'd love for him to start the year, but there is a bigger consideration. Generally injuries like he has either heal at a normal pace or slower. (Sorry there are no superhuman healers to knee surgery.) With the rehab experts he is surrounded by, I'd guess he'll heal at the normal pace which would be the lower end of the 9-12 month mark.

So Burrow was great on intermediate throws and shorter. But, he was pretty bad on deep throws. Now we can blame receivers, etc. but some of it is on him. Maybe timing was off because of covid offseason.

I have no doubt that he would have worked on arm strength and mechanics over the offseason and came back much better. (A lot of QB's have a jump in performance between years 1 and 2.) But, due to this injury, he won't have that chance to work with throwing specialists and work with his receivers to develop timing as much as he would if he were healthy.

Because of this injury, Burrow will likely come back hopefully at the same level he ended this year on and not get that jump.

IF this is the only injury like this of his career, maybe not a big deal. But, look at guys injured a lot like Wentz who regress.

I'm not extremely concerned about 1 injury, but this is the 1st step to ruining a QB. It will take A LOT more to ruin him though. Burrow just has a ton of talent and with the right coaching staff, he could be really special.

It's not like he won't be able to walk or move until September. He'll be up and able to throw right around the time guys typically are doing so.

Injuries can take their toll on guys over the span of a career. Some guys have many. Some guys have only one. We can point to Carson Wentz, or we can point to Carson Palmer who, the season directly following his January knee reconstruction, threw for over 4,000 yards (a big deal in the NFL 15 years ago) and was named the MVP of the Pro Bowl.

It really just depends on the individual AND the team that gets put around him. The Bengals have tried rebuilding the O line. They have TRIED. They just failed miserably at it. The Bengals have had excellent O lines before. They need to get back to that place with immediacy for Joe Burrow to come back without missing a beat.

Lastly, Joe Burrow was already looking like a bad ass WITH this horrific line in front of him. A strong O line and a better HC/OC and we can make an excellent case for the Bengals being 6-2 before he was injured. That's the reality of it.

Joe Burrow will be a breakout WINNER over the next 2 seasons if... IF the Bengals get that line fixed. I think Jonah Williams is better suited to move to RG or RT (with some added weight). he was doing outstanding against tough teams and getting better and better each week. All behind the worst offensive line the Bengals have ever fielded.

My 2020 (realistic) dream line looks like this: Sewell Thuney Hopkins Su'afilo/Adeniji Williams

(12-09-2020, 11:52 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: They almost have to sign a Guard.

I think the real question that will show if they're committed to winning is if they fire this staff. There are no teams in the NFL that would bring Taylor back for year 3.

Look at a guy who got fired this year: Matt Patricia who was 13-29-1. Taylor would have to win 9 more games to get to that.

At least fire the o line coach and D coordinator. I want Zac gone too, but I feel like Burrow has a say in that.

And it matters the quality of guard they sign. Tgey go after thuney/scherrer/ warlord, I will feel a little better. If they sign a JohnnMiller it’s the same old smoke and mirrors.

(12-09-2020, 12:03 PM)PDub80 Wrote: It's not like he won't be able to walk or move until September. He'll be up and able to throw right around the time guys typically are doing so.

This.

He will be able to throw in no time and will have plenty of time to work on his mechanics.

His leg will not be immobilized in a cast so he will not even lose a lot of strength.  He won't be able to play basketball or go skiing, but he will be able to do plenty of controlled physical therapy to retain his muscle mass.

Not saying the injury will not effect his offseason, but he will still be able to get in a lot of work.

(12-09-2020, 06:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This.

He will be able to throw in no time and will have plenty of time to work on his mechanics.

His leg will not be immobilized in a cast so he will not even lose a lot of strength.  He won't be able to play basketball or go skiing, but he will be able to do plenty of controlled physical therapy to retain his muscle mass.

Not saying the injury will not effect his offseason, but he will still be able to get in a lot of work.

Not This.

If you have had the surgery you would know that your leg atrophies at an amazing rate.  I haven't seen any details of the surgery but I would assume that he had some type of miniscus repair along with the ACL and MCL surgery.  If so, his knee will be immobilized (in a brace) until the miniscus heals.

After that his recovery will be based on how fast his strength returns in his leg.  The ACL, MCL and Miniscus will be healed but they won't let him back on the field until he gets all of the strength back in his leg to protect it from being reinjured.   He will be able to throw but not with the correct mechanics until the leg fully heals and has most or all of the strength back.

(12-09-2020, 12:03 PM)PDub80 Wrote: It's not like he won't be able to walk or move until September. He'll be up and able to throw right around the time guys typically are doing so.

Injuries can take their toll on guys over the span of a career. Some guys have many. Some guys have only one. We can point to Carson Wentz, or we can point to Carson Palmer who, the season directly following his January knee reconstruction, threw for over 4,000 yards (a big deal in the NFL 15 years ago) and was named the MVP of the Pro Bowl.

It really just depends on the individual AND the team that gets put around him. The Bengals have tried rebuilding the O line. They have TRIED. They just failed miserably at it. The Bengals have had excellent O lines before. They need to get back to that place with immediacy for Joe Burrow to come back without missing a beat.

Lastly, Joe Burrow was already looking like a bad ass WITH this horrific line in front of him. A strong O line and a better HC/OC and we can make an excellent case for the Bengals being 6-2 before he was injured. That's the reality of it.

Joe Burrow will be a breakout WINNER over the next 2 seasons if... IF the Bengals get that line fixed. I think Jonah Williams is better suited to move to RG or RT (with some added weight). he was doing outstanding against tough teams and getting better and better each week. All behind the worst offensive line the Bengals have ever fielded.

My 2020 (realistic) dream line looks like this: Sewell Thuney Hopkins Su'afilo/Adeniji Williams

He'll be able to walk, but man if he starts throwing while his knee is still in pain and is working on strength...he might really mess up his mechanics.

Every season, we're like in the offseason fix the offensive line. The past 3-4 years the line gets worse. We can fantacize about making the line better and hope that the Bengals do it, but it's far from a given that they'll spend $15 million a year on a Guard. As far as Sewell, seems like a no brainer. But they might not draft him. They love Hart and may decide to play him. It's illogical, but they do stuff like that.

We'll see what happens.

But, I agree that with a trainwreck around him Burrow managed to look very capable. So it stands to reason that if that trainwreck gets fixed, he'll look better. But, with the Bengals...it's far from a given that they'll fix that.

We could have Zac as our coach. 4.5 wins in 2 years might get him a 3rd season.

(12-09-2020, 12:18 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: At least fire the o line coach and D coordinator. I want Zac gone too, but I feel like Burrow has a say in that.

And it matters the quality of guard they sign. Tgey go after thuney/scherrer/ warlord, I will feel a little better. If they sign a JohnnMiller it’s the same old smoke and mirrors.

Firing the DC and OL Coach are half-measures. Zac let the poor communication persist.

Zac is a pretty bad OC. In the midst of Burrows good season, the offense scored points on par with last year league ranking wise. (Yes we scored a little more, but points were up in general in the NFL this year.)

Also, the running game was terrible.

Bringing Zac back, puts Burrows career at risk.

Gotta fire Zac if they're serious about building a winner. It's as simple as that. You can't talk about winning and bring back a coach with 4.5 wins.

Eh I wouldn't worry too much.

He'll likely have a physical training routine outside of his rehab. So physically hell mostly be on the same path as he would have been, he's just adding on the knee therapy.

As far as his deep throws, meh. We spent some time playing aj like he was aj, and that gameplan called for him to get separation. Meh. The line also haven't given him time for a lot of deep throws.