Both these guys are having solid years on a poor team in contract years.

Carl Lawson is proving he is a 3 down player and while only having 5 sacks he is applying pressure because he is top 5 in the league in QB Hits.

William Jackson is allowing just slightly above a 50% allowed catch percentage and has the same for his career. He has also cleaned up his tackling and become a solid outside run defender.

I have seen some people thinking these two will get less than 10m a year in free agency but I don't agree. WJ3 will be one of the best corners on the open market because of his under 30 age and his play. Teams will are always looking for good pass rushers that can also play the run.

My estimate is 10 to 12m a year for Carl Lawson and 12 to 14m a year for WJ3.

I don't necessarily disagree but it felt like jackson was getting torched yesterday.

Both of them have been playing great and both of them HAVE to be re-signed if the Bengals truly want to turn this thing around. There's really no question about it.

(12-14-2020, 02:22 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Both of them have been playing great and both of them HAVE to be re-signed if the Bengals truly want to turn this thing around. There's really no question about it.

With Trae Waynes signed for a couple more years I think they could survive the loss of WJ3 alot better than Carl Lawson. If Lawson leaves the Bengals will have zero edge rushers. If they let WJ3 walk though Mackenzie Alexander would become alot more important resigning as the slot corner.

(12-14-2020, 02:20 PM)Synric Wrote: Both these guys are having solid years on a poor team in contract years.

Carl Lawson is proving he is a 3 down player and while only having 5 sacks he is applying pressure because he is top 5 in the league in QB Hits.

William Jackson is allowing just slightly above a 50% allowed catch percentage and has the same for his career. He has also cleaned up his tackling and become a solid outside run defender.

I have seen some people thinking these two will get less than 10m a year in free agency but I don't agree. WJ3 will be one of the best corners on the open market because of his under 30 age and his play.  Teams will are always looking for good pass rushers that can also play the run.

My estimate is 10 to 12m a year for Carl Lawson and 12 to 14m a year for WJ3.

It would send the wrong message if the FO talks about retaining its players but allows its best ones to leave.
And when comparing to what the top elite guys at CB and pass rushing make, $10-12 mill APY for Lawson and $12-14 mill APY for WJ3 would be a good deal.
Jalen Ramsey, who is having about the same year as WJ3 both in the run game and coverage according to PFF, has an APY of $20 mill.
Elite edge rushers are making $15+ mill a year.

I'd take the "bargain" of WJ3 and Lawson.

I agree that both will most likely get eight figures per year. The price for not signing either one will be having to use an early pick at that position. I'd guess that WJ3 walks (I think he's good but not worth franchising) and they get a deal done with Lawson.

(12-14-2020, 02:35 PM)ochocincos Wrote: It would send the wrong message if the FO talks about retaining its players but allows its best ones to leave.
And when comparing to what the top elite guys at CB and pass rushing make, $10-12 mill APY for Lawson and $12-14 mill APY for WJ3 would be a good deal.
Jalen Ramsey, who is having about the same year as WJ3 both in the run game and coverage according to PFF, has an APY of $20 mill.
Elite edge rushers are making $15+ mill a year.

I'd take the "bargain" of WJ3 and Lawson.

I put them into the "good" price range and not the "elite". WJ3 and Ramsey might be having similar years this year but Ramsey has a career full of elite play and WJ3 has been more up and down. Carl Lawson still is only getting pressure but not creating negative plays.

Both of these guys have been very good but not elite through their Careers. I just seen quite a few people saying 6 to 8m for WJ and 8 to 10m for Carl Lawson and thought that was cracked.

(12-14-2020, 02:36 PM)RiverRat13 Wrote: I agree that both will most likely get eight figures per year. The price for not signing either one will be having to use an early pick at that position. I'd guess that WJ3 walks (I think he's good but not worth franchising) and they get a deal done with Lawson.

We should probably be taking an EDGE early even if we do re-sign Lawson. You need more than one good pass rusher, and when teams shut him down we have nothing. I have no idea what happened to Hubbard, but it feels like he’s taken a major step back. Maybe he’s not fully healthy. Whatever the case we need a lot of help on that DL.

If we can only bring back one I’m going with Lawson over WJ3.

One of them will be franchised Tag I'm leaning towards Lawson.

WJ needs to start actually becoming a ball hawk. This defense is severly lacking guys on defense that can take the ball away via ints or fumbles

(12-14-2020, 02:59 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We should probably be taking an EDGE early even if we do re-sign Lawson. You need more than one good pass rusher, and when teams shut him down we have nothing. I have no idea what happened to Hubbard, but it feels like he’s taken a major step back. Maybe he’s not fully healthy. Whatever the case we need a lot of help on that DL.

If we can only bring back one I’m going with Lawson over WJ3.

Hubbard created alot of his pressure as an inside rusher in 2019 next to Carlos. He is never going to an elite edge rusher. I wonder if he can bulk up to like 285 and play an Outside to Inside role. (34 DE, 43 end run downs with 43 DT as a rusher).

(12-14-2020, 02:59 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We should probably be taking an EDGE early even if we do re-sign Lawson. You need more than one good pass rusher, and when teams shut him down we have nothing. I have no idea what happened to Hubbard, but it feels like he’s taken a major step back. Maybe he’s not fully healthy. Whatever the case we need a lot of help on that DL.

If we can only bring back one I’m going with Lawson over WJ3.

Hubbard is still a good player but he definitely benefited from playing with Geno, Dunlap, and Lawson. Hes Michael Johnson he is good at everything but not great at anything either.

(12-14-2020, 02:59 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We should probably be taking an EDGE early even if we do re-sign Lawson. You need more than one good pass rusher, and when teams shut him down we have nothing. I have no idea what happened to Hubbard, but it feels like he’s taken a major step back. Maybe he’s not fully healthy. Whatever the case we need a lot of help on that DL.

If we can only bring back one I’m going with Lawson over WJ3.

I dont understand the love for Hubbard. How many game changing plays does he manufacture?
Hes a no show when it comes to affecting the pocket.
He doesnt cause fumbles..rarely drops RBs in the backfield
For a loss. Heck he doesnt set the edge consistently.
Hes a average DE on his best day

I don’t think WJIII wants to be here. He is playing for his future team this year.

I think we make offers to both but I think retaining Carl Lawson is more important and more attainable.

I don't trust Lawson as anything more than a part-time pass rusher, and the second he gets paid, he will get hurt. Guaranteed.

WJ3 feels like he has gotten worse ever year he has played and at this point it is pretty clear he will never be what we hoped he would based off his impressive 2nd year. He also continues to have 0 ball skills.

Neither of them are must-haves if it requires paying them like good starters.

(12-14-2020, 03:04 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I dont understand the love for Hubbard. How many game changing plays does he manufacture?
Hes a no show when it comes to affecting the pocket.
He doesnt cause fumbles..rarely drops RBs in the backfield
For a loss. Heck he doesnt set the edge consistently.
Hes a average DE on his best day

14.5 sacks through his first 2 seasons, and a good motor. There’s plenty to like about Hubbard.

(12-14-2020, 03:00 PM)J24 Wrote: One of them will be franchised Tag I'm leaning towards Lawson.

1) CB is a cheaper franchise tag than DE.
2) Tagging Lawson would eat up about 35-40% of the remaining cap.

(12-14-2020, 03:04 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I dont understand the love for Hubbard. How many game changing plays does he manufacture?
Hes a no show when it comes to affecting the pocket.
He doesnt cause fumbles..rarely drops RBs in the backfield
For a loss. Heck he doesnt set the edge consistently.
Hes a average DE on his best day

Have you watched a game?  Hubbard is a beast.

(12-14-2020, 03:24 PM)motoarch Wrote: Have you watched a game?  Hubbard is a beast.

Not so much this year, but his first couple seasons he was. He was quickly becoming one of my favorite players, but he’s been disappointing as of late.

(12-14-2020, 03:08 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: I don’t think WJIII wants to be here. He is playing for his future team this year.

I think we make offers to both but I think retaining Carl Lawson is more important and more attainable.

I actually get this feeling as well. Reminds me of the Jonathon Joseph situation.