(12-14-2020, 06:44 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You’re happy with XSF being the only addition to the OL?

No, but I was happy with how it all shook out in context of the other acquisitions.  We were setting ourselves up to have a possibly decent defense and a good enough offense to hang some points on the board.  I understand the vision.  Last year's defense couldn't tackle.  I do see improvement this year on that.  

(12-14-2020, 06:40 PM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: A lot of that money went into what would turn out to be rehabbing players.  It's tough.  I think he tried to fix it as best he could.  Shrug.

Well, the way the free agency money was spent is another problem. When you take a QB 1OA, with the intention of him starting as a rookie, and you only spend 7% of it on the o-line, to sign a mediocre G...knowing that the line has been shit...it's an ass backwards approach. I still don't know what they were thinking.

(12-14-2020, 06:46 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Well, the way the free agency money was spent is another problem. When you take a QB 1OA, with the intention of him starting as a rookie, and you only spend 7% of it on the o-line, to sign a mediocre G...knowing that the line has been shit...it's an ass backwards approach. I still don't know what they were thinking.

For 1.5 years Zac has talked up Hart, Turner and the offensive line. The coaches are legit happy with it.

Well...until Burrows knee got destroyed. Now they dont seem as happy with it.

Too little too late.

I was at least hopeful when they hired Taylor. But he's steadily taken that away from me.

(12-14-2020, 06:39 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Not everyone was excited about the hire...

Right, but we still hoped for the best, anyway.  I wanted the guy to succeed, but 29 games in, despite his delusional optimism, it's clear he won't.  

(12-14-2020, 06:26 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Let's play hypothetical here:
What if Burrow had stayed healthy and the Bengals won 2 more games out of WAS, NYG, MIA, and DAL, putting them at 4-8-1 at this point in the season?
Would that be enough to consider keeping Taylor on board for another year?

Bengals could have won even more games with Burrow, he is that good.  Burrow covered a lot of coaching sins so to speak.  But given your hypothetical, if Burrow remained healthy I think my feelings toward Taylor would be less harsh but feelings aside, I still think his game planning decisions are questionable, his hiring of Turner and Lou are of serious concerns, and I have not seen significant improvements from year 1 to year 2 to justify in keeping him around.  

Taylor does not have it; at least within the dysfunctionality of the Bengal Franchise that basically needs superhuman personnel to perform under Mike Brown's influences.  

The front office wanted a "hot" young coach, an upcomer  but Taylor was the wrong fit for the Bengals.  FO took a chance and made the wrong choice.  They need someone that knows football running the team.  Looks like Tobin is a hit or miss and I do not trust him after signing Hart for 3 years.  

Mike Brown is not current on how to run an NFL professional football team.  He is simply not current and I don't think he ever was open to the changing paradigm of winning in the NFL.  I am sure he understands football, but not like his father, and his refusal to acknowledge that the team needs to hire a competent GM to turn things around after 30 years is proof that winning is not a priority.  

(12-14-2020, 08:51 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Bengals could have won even more games with Burrow, he is that good.  Burrow covered a lot of coaching sins so to speak.  But given your hypothetical, if Burrow remained healthy I think my feelings toward Taylor would be less harsh but feelings aside, I still think his game planning decisions are questionable, his hiring of Turner and Lou are of serious concerns, and I have not seen significant improvements from year 1 to year 2 to justify in keeping him around.  

Taylor does not have it; at least within the dysfunctionality of the Bengal Franchise that basically needs superhuman personnel to perform under Mike Brown's influences.  

The front office wanted a "hot" young coach, an upcomer  but Taylor was the wrong fit for the Bengals.  FO took a chance and made the wrong choice.  They need someone that knows football running the team.  Looks like Tobin is a hit or miss and I do not trust him after signing Hart for 3 years.  

Mike Brown is not current on how to run an NFL professional football team.  He is simply not current and I don't think he ever was open to the changing paradigm of winning in the NFL.  I am sure he understands football, but not like his father, and his refusal to acknowledge that the team needs to hire a competent GM to turn things around after 30 years is proof that winning is not a priority.  

I picked 2 wins instead of 3 or 4 because I think if the team was 5-7-1 or 6-6-1 it would have been almost a guaranteed yes that Taylor deserved to get another year. 4-8-1 would be in that grey area.

I think Taylor's ultimate demise is his choice in his coaches. 
For his offensive scheme to work, he needs a strong OL. Jim Turner cannot build that.
For his team to win, he needs at least a mid-tier defense. Anarumo cannot do that.

He tried to mimic McVay's 2018 Rams, but the Bengals don't have an elite pass rusher like Aaron Donald. The Rams OL that year was Whitworth, Saffold, Sullivan, Blythe, and Havenstein. The entire OL was a blockade.

(12-14-2020, 09:03 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I picked 2 wins instead of 3 or 4 because I think if the team was 5-7-1 or 6-6-1 it would have been almost a guaranteed yes that Taylor deserved to get another year. 4-8-1 would be in that grey area.

I think Taylor's ultimate demise is his choice in his coaches. 
For his offensive scheme to work, he needs a strong OL. Jim Turner cannot build that.
For his team to win, he needs at least a mid-tier defense. Anarumo cannot do that.

He tried to mimic McVay's 2018 Rams, but the Bengals don't have an elite pass rusher like Aaron Donald. The Rams OL that year was Whitworth, Saffold, Sullivan, Blythe, and Havenstein. The entire OL was a blockade.

His big demise is he's not some intuitive playcaller either. He can copy the Rams playbook, but he doesn't know when and why to call plays.

Pretty telling that the Dolphins went to a Cover 2 and the Bengals weren't expecting it and couldn't figure it out. A COVER 2 is like a basic defense!

This is our culture:

Poor Sam Hubbard
L's in 3 years OSU: 5
L's last 3 years Moeller: 8
L's in 3 years #Bengals: 34

— Lance McAlister (@LanceMcAlister) December 14, 2020

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(12-14-2020, 09:03 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I picked 2 wins instead of 3 or 4 because I think if the team was 5-7-1 or 6-6-1 it would have been almost a guaranteed yes that Taylor deserved to get another year. 4-8-1 would be in that grey area.

I think Taylor's ultimate demise is his choice in his coaches. 
For his offensive scheme to work, he needs a strong OL. Jim Turner cannot build that.
For his team to win, he needs at least a mid-tier defense. Anarumo cannot do that.

He tried to mimic McVay's 2018 Rams, but the Bengals don't have an elite pass rusher like Aaron Donald. The Rams OL that year was Whitworth, Saffold, Sullivan, Blythe, and Havenstein. The entire OL was a blockade.

The biggest problem Zack has is he is just to naive and I think players can see right through that. Especially veteran players who have been a part of winning cultures. That's why guys like Dunlap and Atkins can't stand him because they know what it is like to win and this ain't it.
 I remember in 2003 week 2 the Bengals played the Raiders who were coming off a Super Bowl appearance. It was a close game I think the Bengals screwed up on the last play and they ended up losing the game. Well during the press conference one reporter ask Marvin how  proud of you of your guys that the game was this close. Marvin proceeds to chew the guy out and says we didn't do shit the object is to win the game.  17 years later Zack loses a game where we absolutely dominate the Seahawks and he was happy . to some degree I wonder if he lost the locker room right then and there.

(12-14-2020, 10:24 PM)J24 Wrote: The biggest problem Zack has is he is just to naive and I think players can see right through that. Especially veteran players who have been a part of winning cultures. That's why guys like Dunlap and Atkins can't stand him because they know what it is like to win and this ain't it.
 I remember in 2003 week 2 the Bengals played the Raiders who were coming off a Super Bowl appearance. It was a close game I think the Bengals screwed up on the last play and they ended up losing the game. Well during the press conference one reporter ask Marvin how  proud of you of your guys that the game was this close. Marvin proceeds to chew the guy out and says we didn't do shit the object is to win the game.  17 years later Zack loses a game where we absolutely dominate the Seahawks and he was happy . to some degree I wonder if he lost the locker room right then and there.

Zac needed to learn from McVay and work his way up to offensive coordinator and have a few successful seasons and then get hired.

In the absence of that, he needed an experience DC and probably an experienced OC.

(12-14-2020, 10:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Zac needed to learn from McVay and work his way up to offensive coordinator and have a few successful seasons and then get hired.

In the absence of that, he needed an experience DC and probably an experienced OC.

He needs to be a part of a good organization as well.

Coaches with the worst records over the last two years:

Zac Taylor 4-24-1 (.143)
Adam Gase 7-22 (.241)
Doug Marrone 7-22 (.241)
Matt Patricia 8-18-1 (.308)
Anthony Lynn 9-20 (.310)
Dan Quinn 7-14 (.333)
Vic Fangio 12-17 (.414)

— Gil Brandt (@Gil_Brandt) December 14, 2020

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(12-14-2020, 10:51 PM)J24 Wrote: He needs to be a part of a good organization as well.

No doubt. An organization with established culture, practice habits, etc.

Here...none of that exists.

That said though, he was a terrible OC at UC. Bad OC with the Dolphins. No established organization would touch him as a HC or OC.