(12-15-2020, 02:32 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'd rather go with a G than a C, as the G positions are in worse shape than C.
Wyatt Davis is very likely going in Top 15, so I highly doubt he falls to Rd 2.

I haven't looked at the mocks much yet and it would not surprise me if Wyatt goes higher, the dude is a beast.  And if there is a better guard there then have at it.  I threw Myers out since he would likely be a massive upgrade and we've needed a center for quite a while.  Hopkins isn one of the worse centers out there.   I think we have to upgrade the line this year and get them a new coach.  I want defense as well, but this is an opportunity to solidify it for Burrow for years to come. 

What do you think of moving Jonah to right tackle?

(12-15-2020, 03:02 PM)yang Wrote: I haven't looked at the mocks much yet and it would not surprise me if Wyatt goes higher, the dude is a beast.  And if there is a better guard there then have at it.  I threw Myers out since he would likely be a massive upgrade and we've needed a center for quite a while.  Hopkins isn one of the worse centers out there.   I think we have to upgrade the line this year and get them a new coach.  I want defense as well, but this is an opportunity to solidify it for Burrow for years to come. 

What do you think of moving Jonah to right tackle?

Assuming Sewell is drafted, I'm fine with keeping Jonah at LT and putting Sewell at RT.
I'm also fine putting Sewell at LT and putting Jonah at RT or LG.

In regards to FA, the priciest upgrades will be Thuney and Scherff when it comes to OL.
I doubt the Bengals would dump what they consider "OT money" into a guard, so I think Thuney and Scherff will be off the table.
As such, I look at the next tier of FAs: guys likely in the $6-10 mill APY range.
Three players I have in that range are Larry Warford (RG), Daryl Williams (RT), and Austin Blythe (C/G)
I'd look to get 1-2 of these guys, as the Bengals need 2 upgrades on the OL minimum. You could argue up to 4.

But in the order I'd look to upgrade the OL positions:
1) OG
2) OG
3) RT
4) C
5) LT

Sewell would take care of 3/5, but the Bengals need at least 1 more OL upgrade aside from Sewell, and it needs to be a G before a C, IMO.

(12-15-2020, 03:34 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Assuming Sewell is drafted, I'm fine with keeping Jonah at LT and putting Sewell at RT.
I'm also fine putting Sewell at LT and putting Jonah at RT or LG.

In regards to FA, the priciest upgrades will be Thuney and Scherff when it comes to OL.
I doubt the Bengals would dump what they consider "OT money" into a guard, so I think Thuney and Scherff will be off the table.
As such, I look at the next tier of FAs: guys likely in the $6-10 mill APY range.
Three players I have in that range are Larry Warford (RG), Daryl Williams (RT), and Austin Blythe (C/G)
I'd look to get 1-2 of these guys, as the Bengals need 2 upgrades on the OL minimum. You could argue up to 4.

But in the order I'd look to upgrade the OL positions:
1) OG
2) OG
3) RT
4) C
5) LT

Sewell would take care of 3/5, but the Bengals need at least 1 more OL upgrade aside from Sewell, and it needs to be a G before a C, IMO.

can always kick a OT inside to OG

(12-15-2020, 03:45 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: can always kick a OT inside to OG

Not always. The Bengals tried that with Fred Johnson. He was MUCH worse at OG than he is at OT.
I'd consider swinging Jonah Williams inside if I was to pick an OT, as I think he is good enough to handle all positions.

(12-15-2020, 03:46 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Not always. The Bengals tried that with Fred Johnson. He was MUCH worse at OG than he is at OT.
I'd consider swinging Jonah Williams inside if I was to pick an OT, as I think he is good enough to handle all positions.

Yeah, I have no idea if Jonah can switch but I suspect he would be a monster LG.  I assume he can play RT since he did it at Alabama before switching.  I assume Sewell can play RT as well.  I say draft him and let the experts figure it out.  

Hopkins doesn't stand out because of the terrible guard play, but I'd be curious about his PFF ranking.  And Hopkins can play backup interior lineman.  I will give you we need guards probably worse, but a great center is really hard to come by.  We screwed this up last time. 

(12-15-2020, 04:26 PM)yang Wrote: Yeah, I have no idea if Jonah can switch but I suspect he would be a monster LG.  I assume he can play RT since he did it at Alabama before switching.  I assume Sewell can play RT as well.  I say draft him and let the experts figure it out.  

Hopkins doesn't stand out because of the terrible guard play, but I'd be curious about his PFF ranking.  And Hopkins can play backup interior lineman.  I will give you we need guards probably worse, but a great center is really hard to come by.  We screwed this up last time. 

Years ago, guys viewed going from Tackle to Guard as a demotion. Well Cordy Glenn viewed it that way as early as last year.

But, the money Guards get is big so maybe it's not an issue for most players.

(12-15-2020, 04:26 PM)yang Wrote: Yeah, I have no idea if Jonah can switch but I suspect he would be a monster LG.  I assume he can play RT since he did it at Alabama before switching.  I assume Sewell can play RT as well.  I say draft him and let the experts figure it out.  

Hopkins doesn't stand out because of the terrible guard play, but I'd be curious about his PFF ranking.  And Hopkins can play backup interior lineman.  I will give you we need guards probably worse, but a great center is really hard to come by.  We screwed this up last time. 

Hopkins PFF - 63.6 overall (70.8 pass block, 58.6 run block)
Amongst centers, he's 22nd overall, but he's the 10th best pass blocker.

While I think it makes sense to upgrade Hopkins at some point, I'd rather keep the solid guy and upgrade the terrible positions (G) vs trying to turn solid into elite C but still have terrible guards.

The Bengals also didn't really "screw up" last time btw, they just missed out on the only good C in the draft class. They reportedly wanted Frank Ragnow, who went the pick before them to DET.
At that point, they needed to pick between James Daniels and Billy Price. Given the OL coach at the time was Pollack, it's natural he wanted a strong guy. 

(12-15-2020, 07:04 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Hopkins PFF - 63.6 overall (70.8 pass block, 58.6 run block)
Amongst centers, he's 22nd overall, but he's the 10th best pass blocker.

While I think it makes sense to upgrade Hopkins at some point, I'd rather keep the solid guy and upgrade the terrible positions (G) vs trying to turn solid into elite C but still have terrible guards.

The Bengals also didn't really "screw up" last time btw, they just missed out on the only good C in the draft class. They reportedly wanted Frank Ragnow, who went the pick before them to DET.
At that point, they needed to pick between James Daniels and Billy Price. Given the OL coach at the time was Pollack, it's natural he wanted a strong guy. 

10th best pass blocker is all I need to hear. Protecting Burrow and giving him a pocket to step into is the most important thing. Sure it would be ideal to have 5 guys that excel at both but Hopkins is not a problem. The guards and RT are.

(10-25-2020, 05:48 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Instead of Oline, Oline, Oline, Oline. Perhaps we could sneak someone in that can get after the QB

There are some really good 2nd and 3rd round edge prospects this year.  for #3 overall I don't really like anyone in this draft, because you're basically saying who is the best non-QB football player in this draft.  For me at 3 its either Sewell or trade.  I just think Sewell is almost as big of a no-brainer as Burrow because his floor is low, his ceiling is high, and we have a real need at the position.

(12-15-2020, 03:02 PM)yang Wrote: I haven't looked at the mocks much yet and it would not surprise me if Wyatt goes higher, the dude is a beast.  And if there is a better guard there then have at it.  I threw Myers out since he would likely be a massive upgrade and we've needed a center for quite a while.  Hopkins isn one of the worse centers out there.   I think we have to upgrade the line this year and get them a new coach.  I want defense as well, but this is an opportunity to solidify it for Burrow for years to come. 

What do you think of moving Jonah to right tackle?

My only concern with Jonah to RT is he is only average as a run blocker and Sewell excels as a run blocker. But who am I to say. The only people I am more knowledgeable than are our current staff and that slow kid Korky from the old show life goes on. Hopefully the new staff will know way more than my pea brain.

(12-15-2020, 09:30 PM)WhodeyRay Wrote: My only concern with Jonah to RT is he is only average as a run blocker and Sewell excels as a run blocker. But who am I to say. The only people I am more knowledgeable than are our current staff and that slow kid Korky from the old show life goes on. Hopefully the new staff will know way more than my pea brain.

Sewell at RT works for me. He can be our next Big Willie.

I think that we need to go BPA on the offensive and defensive lines in the first half of the draft. Both lines are pretty garb. Do whatever it takes to upgrade.

It just so happens that BPA in the trenches looks like it’ll probably shake out to be Sewell in the first, so I’ll keep pulling for it.

(12-15-2020, 03:02 PM)yang Wrote: I haven't looked at the mocks much yet and it would not surprise me if Wyatt goes higher, the dude is a beast.  And if there is a better guard there then have at it.  I threw Myers out since he would likely be a massive upgrade and we've needed a center for quite a while.  Hopkins isn one of the worse centers out there.   I think we have to upgrade the line this year and get them a new coach.  I want defense as well, but this is an opportunity to solidify it for Burrow for years to come. 

What do you think of moving Jonah to right tackle?

I don't see Davis dropping to the second, but if he did, then you almost have to get him.  I also like Jackson Carman, who actually might be there, or Chasen Hines from LSU who's likely a 3rd or with round guy.  Both are absolute loads in the run game and mountains of human beings.  That's what I'd like to see in a RG.