I get the angst and anger over this season. It's been a rough two years. And just when we looked like we were about to turn a corner, things got worse.

But I've got to admit, I'm optimistic about next season for a couple reasons.

1. Burrow. He was looking good when he went down and with the way things are, he's likely to come back around the start of the season as healthy as before.

2. Coordinators. Head coaching aside (and I realize in a few posts this is going to devolve into "we ain't going anywhere with ZT driving"), one of our biggest issues has been the coordinators. I don't see any way a few of the worst aren't gone.

But the big thing is...

3. Drafting. Our last draft was the best in a long time. And not just because we got Joe. Tee is looking good. Wilson is heading in the right direction. Akeem is going to take some time, but he's going to be decent. The rest, who knows? But the last I felt like we had four good picks by the end of the season was 2013. With another high pick and ZT's second year with the draft, I think we'll do good again.

4. FA. Last offseason we were aggressive for the first time in a long time. And this year, we're 5th or 6th overall in money available. I think we'll continue the spend (we've got a while before we have to worry about big resigning contracts).

(12-19-2020, 09:24 PM)Benton Wrote: I get the angst and anger over this season. It's been a rough two years. And just when we looked like we were about to turn a corner, things got worse.

But I've got to admit, I'm optimistic about next season for a couple reasons.

1. Burrow. He was looking good when he went down and with the way things are, he's likely to come back around the start of the season as healthy as before.

2. Coordinators. Head coaching aside (and I realize in a few posts this is going to devolve into "we ain't going anywhere with ZT driving"), one of our biggest issues has been the coordinators. I don't see any way a few of the worst aren't gone.

But the big thing is...

3. Drafting. Our last draft was the best in a long time. And not just because we got Joe. Tee is looking good. Wilson is heading in the right direction. Akeem is going to take some time, but he's going to be decent. The rest, who knows? But the last I felt like we had four good picks by the end of the season was 2013. With another high pick and ZT's second year with the draft, I think we'll do good again.

4. FA. Last offseason we were aggressive for the first time in a long time. And this year, we're 5th or 6th overall in money available. I think we'll continue the spend (we've got a while before we have to worry about big resigning contracts).

Burrow should have any Bengals fan optimistic as long as they spend that FA money on proven O-lineman. If they do that and 
have a good Draft with Pass rushers on the inside and outside we should be much better. Still think all our coaches need to go,
not just the coordinators, all of them. I could stand it if Simmons came back.

But yeah, that was a very good to great Draft we just had. Haven't had that since we were good.

I like the optimism, but I am not sold on Taylor. His playcalling is awful and some of his general game management decisions are real head scratchers. That said I agree with every point you made otherwise.

For Joe Burrow football is life and and he is going to put every ounce into rehab to ensure he is back for next year. I hope they bring in a vet that could get wins and be serviceable should Burrow not be ready to start the season or God forbid go down during the season. I will disagree with other posters on here who say we should use a draft pick on QB.

I am excited for the draft and FA this offseason. The office did show they are willing to spend money last year and I think they do the same this year, now on the offensive side of the ball. They have their QB now and with him goinf out it forces their hand to address his safety...which means upgrading the line. They obviously will draft Sewell but I think they will bring in at least 1 maybe 2 more o-line through FA.

They spent money on D last year and they need to do two things there: 1- get a D coordinator who knows what the hell he is doing. 2- shore up DE to get some bodies that can rush the passer.

If the office makes a real effort to upgrade both lines, fire the deadweight staff (Turner/Anarumo) the Bengals will be competitive and fun to watch.

(12-19-2020, 09:24 PM)Benton Wrote: I get the angst and anger over this season. It's been a rough THREE DECADES. And just when we looked like we were about to turn a corner, things got worse.

Fixed it for you.

If there’s anything I’m optimistic about it’s Burrow and the position we’re in to shore up the oline in the off-season.

However, Burrow’s injury has me pessimistic as it’s a pretty significant one to start his career. The coaching has me extremely pessimistic as well as the offensive line play. The lack of a running game as well.

This organization and coaching staff set Burrow up for a horrible start to his career with the offensive line they are putting out there, as well as the game plan with no balance and no running game to protect him.

At this point I’m highly doubtful this staff knows how to win, game plan, coach players to improve at their craft, etc. I’m also highly doubtful that this organization is capable of making the correct coaching hires. I’m also highly doubtful that this organization values offensive lineman as much as they should. They continually spend all their money on flashy players instead of building in the trenches.

(12-19-2020, 09:24 PM)Benton Wrote: I get the angst and anger over this season. It's been a rough two years. And just when we looked like we were about to turn a corner, things got worse.

But I've got to admit, I'm optimistic about next season for a couple reasons.

1. Burrow. He was looking good when he went down and with the way things are, he's likely to come back around the start of the season as healthy as before.

2. Coordinators. Head coaching aside (and I realize in a few posts this is going to devolve into "we ain't going anywhere with ZT driving"), one of our biggest issues has been the coordinators. I don't see any way a few of the worst aren't gone.

But the big thing is...

3. Drafting. Our last draft was the best in a long time. And not just because we got Joe. Tee is looking good. Wilson is heading in the right direction. Akeem is going to take some time, but he's going to be decent. The rest, who knows? But the last I felt like we had four good picks by the end of the season was 2013. With another high pick and ZT's second year with the draft, I think we'll do good again.

4. FA. Last offseason we were aggressive for the first time in a long time. And this year, we're 5th or 6th overall in money available. I think we'll continue the spend (we've got a while before we have to worry about big resigning contracts).

2. Coordinators - Hum, ZT is the defacto OC in that he calls the plays, designs the plays, etc. So he sucks at that as well as HC. I see no logic in keeping him around. Lots of talk, but literally zero walk.

1. Burrow - I don't see Burrow starting week 1. More than likely a month into the season. I could be wrong about that, but any sort of set back, even a little, and he won't ready for the start of the season. So, just to be prudent and prepared, I expect him back week 5, a month into the season. We'll see if the Bengals throw the towel in early by not acquiring a decent backup QB in the off season.

 

It is possible for this front office to build a championship team. Before the Steeler game where Dalton got injured the Bengals were 10-2 with three wins against playoff teams (Sea, KC, Pitt) We had the number 4 scoring offense and NUMBER ONE scoring defense. That was a legitimate championship level team.

The 2005 team did not have much defense, but that offense was pretty sick. That offense line was elite. It could have been the best in the league if they could have played together a while, but the very next year ('06) Braham and Levi Jones both had career altering injuries. Then the next year Willie Anderson had a major injury that he never fully recovered from. Mike Brown had just given all of those guys big contract extensions. Levi and Willie were the highest paid tackle duo in the league. That offense was set to be good for quite a few years, but the o-line was gutted in less than a year-and-a-half.

So that is at least two championship contender level teams in the last 15 years.

I believe we have the hardest piece to find with Burrow at QB. But I have zero faith in anyone on our coaching staff.

If they clean house and bring in some better coaches I think we can have a contender again within a year or two,

(12-19-2020, 09:24 PM)Benton Wrote: (and I realize in a few posts this is going to devolve into "we ain't going anywhere with ZT driving"), 

C'mon Man we can be optimistic....

(12-19-2020, 10:34 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: At this point I’m highly doubtful this staff knows how to win, game plan, coach players to improve at their craft, etc. I’m also highly doubtful that this organization is capable of making the correct coaching hires. I’m also highly doubtful that this organization values offensive lineman as much as they should. They continually spend all their money on flashy players instead of building in the trenches.

(12-19-2020, 10:40 PM)BengalChris Wrote: ZT is the defacto OC in that he calls the plays, designs the plays, etc. So he sucks at that as well as HC. 

 

Fredtoast Wrote:If they clean house and bring in some better coaches I think we can have a contender again within a year or two

...well hell...

I'm optimistic about our oline. If we can just stick with Trey-X-Q I think they'll be a solid group in the interior. Jonah has shown great promise. Get a RT and our line becomes a strength. 

(12-19-2020, 11:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: C'mon Man we can be optimistic....






...well hell...

I'm optimistic about our oline. If we can just stick with Trey-X-Q I think they'll be a solid group in the interior. Jonah has shown great promise. Get a RT and our line becomes a strength. 

Agreed on the line. I think some of the players improved. Jonah was doing good, but I do get concerned about his ability to stay healthy.

If we take who were projected to in the draft and pick up a decent lineman from free agency, I think we'll be ok.

(12-19-2020, 11:39 PM)Benton Wrote: Agreed on the line. I think some of the players improved. Jonah was doing good, but I do get concerned about his ability to stay healthy.

If we take who were projected to in the draft and pick up a decent lineman from free agency, I think we'll be ok.

Jonah staying healthy is a big concern. I do think Adenji has some promise in him as a nice backup for Jonah despite ZT pulling him 10 plays in for a back up rb running up his butt crack. Guy has good feet and sets in pass blocking. He was a 6th round pick so even looking this good is promising. Get a solid rt and at least 1 guard we have something to build on.

(12-19-2020, 10:40 PM)BengalChris Wrote: 2. Coordinators - Hum, ZT is the defacto OC in that he calls the plays, designs the plays, etc. So he sucks at that as well as HC. I see no logic in keeping him around. Lots of talk, but literally zero walk.

1. Burrow - I don't see Burrow starting week 1. More than likely a month into the season. I could be wrong about that, but any sort of set back, even a little, and he won't ready for the start of the season. So, just to be prudent and prepared, I expect him back week 5, a month into the season. We'll see if the Bengals throw the towel in early by not acquiring a decent backup QB in the off season.

 

Yeah...Its funny he blames the coordinators but not Zac. Zac calls the plays and refuses to give that up.

I'd feel much better about Burrow if he didnt have a catastrophic knee injury.

Any hope next year has to center around firing the entire staff.

Re: The draft - Joe is good. Higgins is good.

Wilson?  Not getting many snaps. Adeniji? Got yanked after 10 snaps. These guys arent anywhere near special yet. Maybe they develop...but they're not even average starting quality yet.

(12-19-2020, 11:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: C'mon Man we can be optimistic....






...well hell...

I'm optimistic about our oline. If we can just stick with Trey-X-Q I think they'll be a solid group in the interior. Jonah has shown great promise. Get a RT and our line becomes a strength. 

Jonah was actually a bit underwhelming. He was bad at run blocking. Maybe average pass blocking. Needs to improve.

Jonah is actually Bobby Hart with run blocking and pass blocking skills reversed. Hart can run block better than pass block.

It happens every offseason. We'll make minimal staff adjustments...bring in a tier b or c free agent. Draft some guys that the homers project as 7 quality starters. There will be threads about how our lines are our strength. How our wrs are 5 deep with talent.

Then the season starts and we suck.

Rinse. Repeat.

Well I'm optimistic you guys are optimistic.

(12-19-2020, 10:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is possible for this front office to build a championship team.  Before the Steeler game where Dalton got injured the Bengals were 10-2 with three wins against playoff teams (Sea, KC, Pitt)  We had the number 4 scoring offense and NUMBER ONE scoring defense.  That was a legitimate championship level team.  

The 2005 team did not have much defense, but that offense was pretty sick.  That offense line was elite.  It could have been the best in the league if they could have played together a while, but the very next year ('06) Braham and Levi Jones both had career altering injuries.  Then the next year Willie Anderson had a major injury that he never fully recovered from.  Mike Brown had just given all of those guys big contract extensions.  Levi and Willie were the highest paid tackle duo in the league.  That offense was set to be good for quite a few years, but the o-line was gutted in less than a year-and-a-half.

So that is at least two championship contender level teams in the last 15 years.

I believe we have the hardest piece to find with Burrow at QB.  But I have zero faith in anyone on our coaching staff.

If they clean house and bring in some better coaches I think we can have a contender again within a year or two,

Will require a good OL, and since this staff seems bent on gutting the DL, there's work to do there as well.

 

(12-20-2020, 12:07 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah...Its funny he blames the coordinators but not Zac.

Yeah... Except I didn't say zt doesn't deserve any blame.

Pump the breaks.

(12-20-2020, 12:14 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It happens every offseason. We'll make minimal staff adjustments...bring in a tier b or c free agent. Draft so.e guys that the homers project as 7 quality starters. There will be threads about how our lines are our strength. How our wrs are 5 deep with talent.

Then the season starts and we suck.

Rinse. Repeat.

Seven starters? 

Seems like I said we hadn't gotten four decent guys in a draft in seven years.

But... Sure.

(12-20-2020, 12:50 AM)Benton Wrote: Yeah... Except I didn't say zt doesn't deserve any blame.

Pump the breaks.

Then why are you optimistic if they keep Zac and change coordinators? He'll call the plays still.

Really, Burrow is the only reason for optimism...and his busted knee likely will hurt his growth this offseason.

(12-20-2020, 12:53 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Then why are you optimistic if they keep Zac and change coordinators? He'll call the plays still.

Really, Burrow is the only reason for optimism...and his busted knee likely will hurt his growth this offseason.

Because it's not just been about the plays.

ZT isn't calling every play, assigning every block, teaching every technique. I get the zt hate, but I'm not going to crap my pants if he's back. We've had this discussion in other threads and I don't really see the need to rehash it, other than to say ZT walked into a crap roster. Part of my optimism is that the roster is going to be better next season.

I'm not hanging my hopes on joe. But I am feeling that this team has more talent now, and will have even more next spring, than it's had in nearly a decade.