Zac Taylor was a hot prospect when we hired him. He was as close to an OC as the LA Rams had and got Goff to perform at an elite level.

Matter of fact the biggest negative with ZAC is that we had to wait so late to hire him as he was busy coaching in the Superbowl.

Now the results haven't been all we hoped but let's stop with the false narrative that no coach would want to take an NFL HC job on a team QB'd by a record setting QB.

To be worth a damn a coach has to be confident in his abilities; there's plenty people that would love to come here and become a legend by building a Champion.

(12-20-2020, 03:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Zac Taylor was a hot prospect when we hired him. He was as close to an OC as the LA Rams had and got Goff to perform at an elite level.

Matter of fact the biggest negative with ZAC is that we had to wait so late to hire him as he was busy coaching in the Superbowl.

Now the results haven't been all we hoped but let's stop with the false narrative that no coach would want to take an NFL HC job on a team QB'd by a record setting QB.

To be worth a damn a coach has to be confident in his abilities; there's plenty people that would love to come here and become a legend by building a Champion.

Joe Burrow is a major selling point for sure. I think the problem is gonna be that during the interview a potential hire is gonna ask what the Bengals' 3 year plan is... I'm not sure they have one, and if they do; how solid is that plan? I think if I'm on the outside looking in, I'd want the "slash GM" title if I were to accept the Bengals job (which isn't gonna be available anyway).

Teams usually have HC openings because they are not good. This means the Bengals job should be attractive. I think the lack of GM might help some coaches as they would have more say in the draft and FA than they would with another team with a true GM. Now the Bengals have shown that this may not be the best way to run this team but it still should help in hiring a good HC.

I also think that coaches would think they can turn it around quick with Burrow, Higgins, Boyd and a healthy Mixon. When healthy the Bengals have a good group of skill position players (better than any other terrible team which says something about Zac)

Bengals job should attractive for first time head coaches. It's not a big market, has less scrutiny, and when you're fired you can blame everything on Mike Brown like everyone else.

(12-20-2020, 12:49 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yep. Unfortunately, I don't think Taylor has a vision. He basically just tried to bring the Rams playbook in. Doesn't know when to call plays and why. It's telling that the Dolphins switching to a Cover 2 threw him off so much.

But, yes...great points! Other teams have a system and select guys that fit that system. That's why the Patriots win. And right now, with no Brady and all the guys that opted out because of covid, they're 6-7. We'd likely struggle to win a single game all year without Dalton last year or Burrow this year...let along all the guys that opted out for them. Here, 1 or 2 injuries derail us.

Agree

ZT without JB to cover up the flaws has shown zero ability to be an NFL HC.

Are vet established HC's standing in line to work for MB ? NO But like others have said I believe some younger up and comers would jump at the chance to work with Burrow.

We have had good coaches interview here even 2 years ago.

Bienemy and del rio were both interviewed. Neither were offered the job.

Probably something to do with no intentions of an indoor practice facility or gm and updating stuff to tge 20th century

I remember hearing some sports talk show mention that people were looking for "anyone who had a cup of coffee with Sean McVay." Rams flashed and we picked out a "who is he" guy from their team. The proof is that he did not make the team any better.

"No body" is a stretch, but when it comes to true, blue chip coaches, Cincy is not that attractive, as the same for players. It was Parcells who had some quote about making the dinner and having some decisions when it came to the groceries. A team that didn't let Marvin Lewis, second only the Bill Belichick in NFL tenure, get some things he wanted, is telling. The small market of Cincy, with the reputation it has ( deserved or not ), may get some interest, but not the star power. Think the likes of Andy Reid, Sean Payton, Bruce Arians, Jon Gruden would even look at a job here?

Oh, they have Burrow. Coming back from a knee injury. And we can do whatever comparisons you like, but we just don't know how that may be going forward. A dumpster fire of an O-line, bad defense, family ownership that despite what you think, may only draft who they want. Small scouting department to help, and no matter how much we suck, they may not be motivated to make changes ( just like now ). FA tend to avoid this place. And before mentioning players who you have to google to find when they were a decent player, find where they were a top 20 prospect and they choose Cincy. When players say they want to go somewhere else and play for a winner or compete for a championship, that does not mean coming here.

Want a great coach? Convince them you will do whatever it takes to make the team great. When has Cincinnati done that? Even in the last few weeks? Falling into the #1OA pick in the draft is not that, BTW.

Any hot, female coaches out there to coach our team, preferably one in her late 20s, early 30s, top shape and likes to wear mini-skirts?

At least the team would play above and beyond with such an incentive.

(12-20-2020, 03:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Zac Taylor was a hot prospect when we hired him.  He was as close to an OC as the LA Rams had and got Goff to perform at an elite level.

How was he "close to an OC"?  He was a QB coach, Sean McVay was the OC.   (I'm not asking this to be a dick, I've just never read anywhere that he was anywhere close to an OC.)

Fwiw, Goff was already performing at a similar level prior to Zac Taylor.  He had a 100.5 rating his 2nd year before Zac became QB coach.  He had a  101.1 rating the year Zac was his QB coach. Those are almost identical numbers

If you look closely at the stats, you'll see an increase in yardage and TD's as a result of a McVay offense that passed more (65 more attempts in 2018 than 2017).  His TD % was higher without Zac than it was with him.  His Int % was lower without Zac than it was with him.  The YPA (Yards Per Attempt) is exactly equal at 8.5. The YPC (Yards Per Completion) is exactly equal at 12.9

I don't really see that much improvement there.  And even if there is a minimal amount, you have to consider development from a 2nd year player to a 3rd year player, and a McVay offense.

Agree to disagree, but Zac Taylor gets way to much credit for Goff.   There's no huge leap there.

(12-20-2020, 04:01 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: How was he "close to an OC"?  He was a QB coach, Sean McVay was the OC.   (I'm not asking this to be a dick, I've just never read anywhere that he was anywhere close to an OC.)

Fwiw, Goff was already performing at a similar level prior to Zac Taylor.  He had a 100.5 rating his 2nd year before Zac became QB coach.  He had a  101.1 rating the year Zac was his QB coach.  Those are almost identical numbers

If you look closely at the stats, you'll see an increase in yardage and TD's as a result of a McVay offense that passed more (65 more attempts in 2018 than 2017).  His TD % was higher without Zac than it was with him.  His Int % was lower without Zac than it was with him.  The YPA (Yards Per Attempt) is exactly equal at 8.5.  The YPC (Yards Per Completion) is exactly equal at 12.9

I don't really see that much improvement there.  And even if there is a minimal amount, you have to consider development from a 2nd year player to a 3rd year player, and a McVay offense.

Agree to disagree, but Zac Taylor gets way to much credit for Goff.   There's no huge leap there.

You asked the question and then answered it with the next sentence. Zac was getting plenty credit for improving the Ram's Offense to such a point that they made the Super Bowl. I personally didn't like the hire because I wanted someone more established and I thought Marvin was getting all he could out of the team; but Zac fit the young Offensive guru mold that was all the rage in the NFL.

I have no problem with shitting on the FO when they do stupid shit like keeping Zac, but it was obvious that Zac was a hot prospect when we hired him. When we try to shit on the good things they do we tend to lose our objectivity. 

(12-20-2020, 03:02 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Bill would at least have the fundamentals to get us headed in the right direction. Plus he has fire.  

Hire Cowher s GM and let him do his thing...

(12-20-2020, 04:01 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: How was he "close to an OC"?  He was a QB coach, Sean McVay was the OC.   (I'm not asking this to be a dick, I've just never read anywhere that he was anywhere close to an OC.)

Fwiw, Goff was already performing at a similar level prior to Zac Taylor.  He had a 100.5 rating his 2nd year before Zac became QB coach.  He had a  101.1 rating the year Zac was his QB coach.  Those are almost identical numbers

If you look closely at the stats, you'll see an increase in yardage and TD's as a result of a McVay offense that passed more (65 more attempts in 2018 than 2017).  His TD % was higher without Zac than it was with him.  His Int % was lower without Zac than it was with him.  The YPA (Yards Per Attempt) is exactly equal at 8.5.  The YPC (Yards Per Completion) is exactly equal at 12.9

I don't really see that much improvement there.  And even if there is a minimal amount, you have to consider development from a 2nd year player to a 3rd year player, and a McVay offense.

Agree to disagree, but Zac Taylor gets way to much credit for Goff.   There's no huge leap there.

He was McVay 2 years. Assistant WR coach one year. QB Coach the next. They had that Waldron guy that we interviewed too who was a passing game coordinator there.

Goff actually made his big jump the year before Taylor was QB coach too.

(12-20-2020, 04:56 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: He was McVay 2 years. Assistant WR coach one year. QB Coach the next. They had that Waldron guy that we interviewed too who was a passing game coordinator there.

Goff actually made his big jump the year before Taylor was QB coach too.

According to Wes, Goff's development could simply be attributed to the progression of a QB from year 2 to year 3. How has Goff developed since Zac left?

(12-20-2020, 05:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote: According to Wes, Goff's development could simply be attributed to the progression of a QB from year 2 to year 3. How has Goff developed since Zac left?

Goff had over a 100 passer rating in Year 2...when Zac was the assistant WR coach. Someone else was the qb coach then.

How was Zac as the Dolphins OC? How was he at UC? How did he do with Dalton?

(12-20-2020, 05:35 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Goff had over a 100 passer rating in Year 2...when Zac was the assistant WR coach. Someone else was the qb coach then.

How was Zac as the Dolphins OC? How was he at UC? How did he do with Dalton?

You didn't answer the question posed, just asked some of your own that have nothing to do with the point discussed

The point being discussed was if Zac was a hot prospect when we hired him. I asserted he was and the work he did with the Ram's offense and Goff were reasons why.

I've clearly said he's done terrible since being here so 0 idea why you brought up Dalton. 

(12-20-2020, 05:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote: According to Wes, Goff's development could simply be attributed to the progression of a QB from year 2 to year 3.

What development?  I just laid out a ton of stats that there was minimal to no development.

His QB rating went up .6 points.  His yards per attempt and yards per completion are literally identical.  His TD% actually went slightly down under Zac Taylor.  His INT% actually went slightly up under Zac Taylor.

Where is this all of this development (specific to QB play) that you're referencing?

To each their own, but I find it odd that you find fault in the logic that players tend to improve from year to year early on in their careers.  For such a small amount of improvement I think it's perfectly reasonable to attritube some of that to experience.

Did Zac Taylor really develop Jared Goff that much?  Did he really?  (The numbers don't say so) 

Did the Rams passing offense really improve that much because of Zac Taylor?  Or does Sean McVay taking over play calling and throwing more, and the Rams adding Brandon Cooks in free agency better explain the team success?

I've never heard of a QB coach getting so much praise for such a performance.  And it's funny, I've read numerous times on here about how Zac deserves credit for Joe Burrow playing well.  Not once have I heard Dan Pitcher's name (Bengals QB coach) get mentioned for that.  NOT ONE SINGLE TIME.

Zac Taylor was a nobody position coach that happened to land a gig on a good team.  His preivious experience as an OC (Dolphins and UC Bearcats) showed that he lacked experience and any semblance of success.

Zac Taylor was hot because McVay was nuclear. I never really heard of people considering him hardcore. Maybe I wasn't listening closely, but big names you hear and remember. Never knew this guy before and if he was hot, the Bengals were the only ones dumb enough to do more than talk to him.

(12-20-2020, 06:00 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: What development?  I just laid out a ton of stats that there was minimal to no development.

His QB rating went up .6 points.  His yards per attempt and yards per completion are literally identical.  His TD% actually went slightly down under Zac Taylor.  His INT% actually went slightly up under Zac Taylor.

Where is this all of this development (specific to QB play) that you're referencing?

To each their own, but I find it odd that you find fault in the logic that players tend to improve from year to year early on in their careers.  For such a small amount of improvement I think it's perfectly reasonable to attritube some of that to experience.

Did Zac Taylor really develop Jared Goff that much?  Did he really?  (The numbers don't say so) 

Did the Rams passing offense really improve that much because of Zac Taylor?  Or does Sean McVay taking over play calling and throwing more, and the Rams adding Brandon Cooks in free agency better explain the team success?

I've never heard of a QB coach getting so much praise for such a performance.  And it's funny, I've read numerous times on here about how Zac deserves credit for Joe Burrow playing well.  Not once have I heard Dan Pitcher's name (Bengals QB coach) get mentioned for that.  NOT ONE SINGLE TIME.

Zac Taylor was a nobody position coach that happened to land a gig on a good team.  His preivious experience as an OC (Dolphins and UC Bearcats) showed that he lacked experience and any semblance of success.

You accidentally cut off my post before it got to the question posed. So I cannot blame you for not answering it. 

Development came because he got better and led a team to the Super Bowl. 

I get it; you're mad that Zac is still our coach and the crappy job he's done to date., But none of your anger changes the fact that Zac was an "en vogue" hire when the Bengals took him and I assert another hot prospect would take this gig if given the chance.

(12-20-2020, 05:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You didn't answer the question posed, just asked some of your own that have nothing to do with the point discussed

The point being discussed was if Zac was a hot prospect when we hired him. I asserted he was and the work he did with the Ram's offense and Goff were reasons why.

I've clearly said he's done terrible since being here so 0 idea why you brought up Dalton. 

Zac wasnt a hot prospect. Maybe a fad prospect because McVays Rams offense got a lot of attention. The media narrative was that he was being hired several years before he was ready.

I believe he did interview with 1 other team, but it's not like there was a battle to hire him.

(12-20-2020, 08:00 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Zac wasnt a hot prospect. Maybe a fad prospect because McVays Rams offense got a lot of attention. The media narrative was that he was being hired several years before he was ready.

I believe he did interview with 1 other team, but it's not like there was a battle to hire him.

Okey Dokey