I’d definitely lean towards getting an elite pass rusher if we miss out on Sewell. If there’s a guy that’s shown the ability in college, with the right measurables/athleticism/work ethic, take him. A good to elite pass rush will make everyone better on the back end—It’s how you generate turnovers and slow down great quarterbacks. Invest in the guard position/offensive line as well. From there you can fill out the roster with mid round picks and free agents.

Of course I’d resign Lawson and WJ3, as well as upgrade the coaching staff. We can let AJ and Geno go to save money and get these guys re-signed. Bring in a solid FA guard as well.

(12-21-2020, 01:14 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We should probably start with beating the teams in our own division first. And we just saw a Browns/Ravens shootout a week ago.

Ok you would still need CBs, Pass rushers, and LBers. You are not going to beat Baltimore and Pittsburgh if you're giving up 30 points a game. Your not beating the browns if you continuously give up 30 + points like we did. Not investing in defense is suicide especially in this defense. 

(12-21-2020, 02:56 AM)J24 Wrote: Ok you would still need CBs, Pass rushers, and LBers. You are not going to beat Baltimore and Pittsburgh if you're giving up 30 points a game. Your not beating the browns if you continuously give up 30 + points like we did. Not investing in defense is suicide especially in this defense. 

So is not investing in your offense (OL specifically). That’s why a 4th round trash OG was starting and our franchise QB is recovering from surgery right now. Maybe we should have spent a little more on the OL and less on NT and CB...

(12-21-2020, 12:25 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I'd invest money in the offense and then get pass rushers on the defensive line to generate turnovers. The rule changes have made above average QBs great. Get a great line and more speed at wr.

This is why I really wasn't talking crap about Burrow when I mentioned that while he put up numbers that would have been great in previous years, he was a statistically below average QB in 2020. 65% completion just isn't what it used to be even a couple years ago. The league is putting up absurd stats at QB even though there's a pretty large amount of backup and/or really inexperienced QBs playing right now.

If they're not going to make a course correction in the rules, you almost have to just invest heavily in offense. Not accounting for today's games....
4 teams allowing <21 points per game and 0 allowing <18 points per game. 
In 2011, those numbers were 11 teams and 4 teams, respectively.

In 2011, 19 offenses were scoring at least 21 points per game. That number in 2020 is 27.

Name of the game now is score points. Load up the offense and do your best.

(12-21-2020, 01:52 AM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: I’d definitely lean towards getting an elite pass rusher if we miss out on Sewell. If there’s a guy that’s shown the ability in college, with the right measurables/athleticism/work ethic, take him. A good to elite pass rush will make everyone better on the back end—It’s how you generate turnovers and slow down great quarterbacks. Invest in the guard position/offensive line as well. From there you can fill out the roster with mid round picks and free agents.

Of course I’d resign Lawson and WJ3, as well as upgrade the coaching staff. We can let AJ and Geno go to save money and get these guys re-signed. Bring in a solid FA guard as well.

At 3, it would be a stretch to take someone. Rousseau is a really good prospect, but he's really raw. I'm a gunge Miami fan too so I've seen him a lot and in person some. He's really quick. I just don't know how he will translate to the Pro level. I feel like he needed to play this past season to get more experience, but he didn't. IF we traded down several spots and took him and picked up an extra pick or 2 I think that's the strategy.

I think Rousseau has a lot of risk that he could bust, but he has a really high Pro Bowl+ caliber ceiling too if his game translates to the Pros.

Adding him doesn't solve our pass rush issue though.

IF Sewell goes 2, my move would be to trade down a few spots to a team that wants fields. Then go Chase or another WR with speed. Chase would be idea.

The Bengals could go Surtain at CB if Jackson leaves. With what they paid Waynes, I don't know that they'll pay Jackson a huge contract.

Micah Parsons, the LB from PSU is good too.

3 is tough. 1 and 2 are no brainers. (Lawrence and Sewell). 3 you need to really scout and figure out who to take. It would be nice if Fields goes 2.

(12-21-2020, 10:14 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: At 3, it would be a stretch to take someone. Rousseau is a really good prospect, but he's really raw. I'm a gunge Miami fan too so I've seen him a lot and in person some. He's really quick. I just don't know how he will translate to the Pro level. I feel like he needed to play this past season to get more experience, but he didn't. IF we traded down several spots and took him and picked up an extra pick or 2 I think that's the strategy.

I think Rousseau has a lot of risk that he could bust, but he has a really high Pro Bowl+ caliber ceiling too if his game translates to the Pros.

Adding him doesn't solve our pass rush issue though.

IF Sewell goes 2, my move would be to trade down a few spots to a team that wants fields. Then go Chase or another WR with speed. Chase would be idea.

The Bengals could go Surtain at CB if Jackson leaves. With what they paid Waynes, I don't know that they'll pay Jackson a huge contract.

Micah Parsons, the LB from PSU is good too.

3 is tough. 1 and 2 are no brainers. (Lawrence and Sewell). 3 you need to really scout and figure out who to take. It would be nice if Fields goes 2.

I like the idea of trading down as we are in a perfect spot to do so. If we trade down too far we miss out on that next tier of prospects, of which there are what?—5 or so? Maybe we can trade back 4 or 5 spots and take the best player.

Chase wouldn’t be a bad option in a trade down—as well as the Alabama wideout. An edge player with high end potential would be a great pick as well, but it’s likely someone takes a chance on one before pick 7-9, where I’d be looking to trade down to.

On second thought, I prefer the strategy of drafting oline and defense in round 1 over wide receivers. Just look at the Steelers. They have no problem drafting wide receivers later in the draft. Heck, we’ve had success in the 2nd round with chad, Boyd, and now Higgins. I forget where Marvin Jones was drafted (4th?). Draft Sewell or defense in the top 10. Worry about wide receiver later.

(12-21-2020, 03:26 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: So is not investing in your offense (OL specifically). That’s why a 4th round trash OG was starting and our franchise QB is recovering from surgery right now. Maybe we should have spent a little more on the OL and less on NT and CB...

I think the main reason we spent so much on defense in free agency was because we knew we were adding two first round picks to the offense at two key positions (LT and QB) plus the return of AJ Green.

Can't spend all the money on one side of the ball, and if you plan on building through the draft with younger players you can't rite off a guy like MJ after just one season.

The league is manipulating the game through the officials. This year offensive holding callas are way down while defensive pass interference and holding calls are up. And I am not talking about small changes. I think it was like a 30%-40% change over just last year.

(12-21-2020, 12:25 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I'd invest money in the offense and then get pass rushers on the defensive line to generate turnovers. The rule changes have made above average QBs great. Get a great line and more speed at wr.

There have been 30 teams to play so far in week 15. Including Mayfield tonight, 18 of the QBs completed at least 69% of their passes.

Always important to put things like completion percentage in perspective. Especially when 69% is table stakes in a given week.

— Football Perspective (@fbgchase) December 21, 2020

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well you can do that or look to counter with investing in defense... to stop this  while relying on the new offensive rules to help the offense out where talent lacks.

(12-21-2020, 04:42 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: This is why I really wasn't talking crap about Burrow when I mentioned that while he put up numbers that would have been great in previous years, he was a statistically below average QB in 2020. 65% completion just isn't what it used to be even a couple years ago. The league is putting up absurd stats at QB even though there's a pretty large amount of backup and/or really inexperienced QBs playing right now.

If they're not going to make a course correction in the rules, you almost have to just invest heavily in offense. Not accounting for today's games....
4 teams allowing <21 points per game and 0 allowing <18 points per game. 
In 2011, those numbers were 11 teams and 4 teams, respectively.

In 2011, 19 offenses were scoring at least 21 points per game. That number in 2020 is 27.

Name of the game now is score points. Load up the offense and do your best.

It figures...when we finally get a QB that could be elite we have terrible coaches, and many other teams in the league have good QB's too. Thus, negating the advantage.

One of the Dolphins or Ravens won't make the playoffs this year...even with likely 10 wins...and that's with expanded playoffs and no Patriots taking a spot.

(12-21-2020, 11:45 AM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: I like the idea of trading down as we are in a perfect spot to do so. If we trade down too far we miss out on that next tier of prospects, of which there are what?—5 or so? Maybe we can trade back 4 or 5 spots and take the best player.

Chase wouldn’t be a bad option in a trade down—as well as the Alabama wideout. An edge player with high end potential would be a great pick as well, but it’s likely someone takes a chance on one before pick 7-9, where I’d be looking to trade down to.

Yeah...so who would want 3 to take Fields? Maybe Panthers, but I doubt it. Lions? Cowboys if they don't want to pay Dak. Maybe Patriots.

That's a pretty steep fall. I'd be ok with going down to 5-6 and getting a Chase, but idk.

(12-21-2020, 12:52 AM)impactplaya Wrote: We need a true ballhawk.at CB.Jackson.is not a ballhawk.
He hasnt made a impactful interception since when????
Has he ever sealed a game with a pick?

He had a pick in the Browns game that kept us in it, but also got burned by OBJ... he’s a mixed bag player IMO but does play well much of the time.

I want him back but not at the price he is probabaly going to demand.

(12-21-2020, 01:47 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah...so who would want 3 to take Fields? Maybe Panthers, but I doubt it. Lions? Cowboys if they don't want to pay Dak. Maybe Patriots.

That's a pretty steep fall. I'd be ok with going down to 5-6 and getting a Chase, but idk.

I would say swapping with Denver at pick 9 would be the most likely. That’s too far for my liking as we probably botch the pick. Denver is always picking a new QB. Carolina at pick 4 probably needs a QB as well. Maybe they win a game and drop all the way down to pick 7 or 8. The rest of the picks below us have established quarterbacks.

The more I think about it, we’re in a great spot to pick the 1st player not named Lawrence or Sewell. Of course if Sewell is there you pick him. But adding an edge rusher or elite LB or elite corner would certainly help us out a lot. Chase would make us better, but we aren’t going to be able to pay to keep 3 wideouts, and we can find good wideouts later in the draft (our track record is pretty good). It’s much harder to find elite defensive playmakers.

(12-21-2020, 03:17 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: I would say swapping with Denver at pick 9 would be the most likely. That’s too far for my liking as we probably botch the pick. Denver is always picking a new QB. Carolina at pick 4 probably needs a QB as well. Maybe they win a game and drop all the way down to pick 7 or 8. The rest of the picks below us have established quarterbacks.

The more I think about it, we’re in a great spot to pick the 1st player not named Lawrence or Sewell. Of course if Sewell is there you pick him. But adding an edge rusher or elite LB or elite corner would certainly help us out a lot. Chase would make us better, but we aren’t going to be able to pay to keep 3 wideouts, and we can find good wideouts later in the draft (our track record is pretty good). It’s much harder to find elite defensive playmakers.

Trading with Carolina would be ideal. I debated what they'd do. McCaffrey is hurt. With Kuechly retired, I could see them taking Parsons at LB.

I don't know though. All depends what teams thing of Fields. I tend to think he won't be a good Pro, but someone could see Russell Wilson.

(12-21-2020, 01:37 AM)impactplaya Wrote: This.needs 3 legit.pass rusher. It.has.1 now

And Lawson is a free agent and he has a checkered injury history dating back to college.

(12-21-2020, 04:42 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: This is why I really wasn't talking crap about Burrow when I mentioned that while he put up numbers that would have been great in previous years, he was a statistically below average QB in 2020. 65% completion just isn't what it used to be even a couple years ago. The league is putting up absurd stats at QB even though there's a pretty large amount of backup and/or really inexperienced QBs playing right now.

If they're not going to make a course correction in the rules, you almost have to just invest heavily in offense. Not accounting for today's games....
4 teams allowing <21 points per game and 0 allowing <18 points per game. 
In 2011, those numbers were 11 teams and 4 teams, respectively.

In 2011, 19 offenses were scoring at least 21 points per game. That number in 2020 is 27.

Name of the game now is score points. Load up the offense and do your best.

Yes! Are CB's the RB of the defense? Without a pass rush, CB's generally struggle unless you have the rare one that can cover no matter what. There are maybe 1-3 of those guys. Jackson, isn't one.

Are you better off just spending a high amount of resources on a defensive line?

In a sense, if they're smart enough to pull the plug on the coaching staff...they're in a great position to rebuild a roster that can compete in the modern NFL. With this coaching staff, it's just going to delay progress though.

(12-21-2020, 03:50 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yes! Are CB's the RB of the defense? Without a pass rush, CB's generally struggle unless you have the rare one that can cover no matter what. There are maybe 1-3 of those guys. Jackson, isn't one.

Are you better off just spending a high amount of resources on a defensive line?

In a sense, if they're smart enough to pull the plug on the coaching staff...they're in a great position to rebuild a roster that can compete in the modern NFL. With this coaching staff, it's just going to delay progress though.

As the old adage goes, the game is won and lost in the trenches. We've been getting our asses handed to us on both trenches for a few years now. It shows on our records.

If the Bengals really want to get to the point you're talking about, they need:
- 2 pass rushers
- 2 OL (3 ideally)
- 1 more good pass catcher (WR or TE)

They won't realistically get all of that in a single draft with guys who can contribute well right away, so they will need to invest in FA too if they want to get there faster.

(12-21-2020, 03:58 PM)Wyche Wrote: As the old adage goes, the game is won and lost in the trenches. We've been getting our asses handed to us on both trenches for a few years now. It shows on our records.

Seems one common thing for the Bengals over the Mike Brown 30 years of ownership are good WR's and RB's. And we're duking it out with the Lions for worst record over that span.

Speaking of the Lions, who do you think of? Sanders? Magatron? Herman Moore? Lots of good WR's and RB's.

See a trend?

The Steelers? Generally good lines...although not early in Bens career. But good front 7 on defense pretty consistently. Their CB's usually aren't spectacular, but they can all tackle.

The Browns? Added lineman in the offseason and have a PFF Top 5 line and suddenly winning.