(12-25-2020, 08:36 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If Joe hadn't gotten injured, that would have meant the Bengals suddenly had a better OL than they actually have. So yes, a healthy Burrow and a better OL would have results in 6-7 wins.

The Bengals aren't a bad team because Burrow got hurt. Burrow got hurt because they are a bad team.

Well  a healthy Burrow  only had 2 wins for 10 games, so he was on pace for 3 to 4 wins... so don;t think him getting hurt changed that much with wins... Burrow got hurt because it is called NFL football... Phil is last in sacks allowed and their QBs have been healthy as a whole, Jets are a worse team than Bengals and Donald has played all game.. Washington has a bad line and they actually still have Smith at QB and Texans have had Watson running all over the place and he has not got hurt.. please give up Burrow was going to get hurt because we were had a weak line.. or please explain why other bad lines did not have the same happen ?

(12-25-2020, 09:50 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well  a healthy Burrow  only had 2 wins for 10 games, so he was on pace for 3 to 4 wins... so don;t think him getting hurt changed that much with wins...

With respect, burrow was a rookie QB with no preseason playing in the toughest part of to 2020 schedule. He was just starting to get good about the time he got taken out.

(12-25-2020, 09:50 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well  a healthy Burrow  only had 2 wins for 10 games, so he was on pace for 3 to 4 wins... so don;t think him getting hurt changed that much with wins...  Burrow got hurt because it is called NFL football...  Phil is last in sacks allowed and their QBs have been healthy as a whole, Jets are a worse team than Bengals and Donald has played all game..   Washington has a bad line and they actually still have Smith at QB and Texans have had Watson running all over the place and he has not got hurt.. please give up Burrow was going to get hurt because we were had a weak line.. or please explain why other bad lines did not have the same happen ?

Yeah...MJ gave up what 7-8 pressures in the Washington game. And Burrow threw what about 30 pass attempts in the 1st half. And Washington has a top 5 pass rush. And we have given up a lot of sacks.

So...yes - the gameplan and personnel on both teams DEFINATELY contributed to the injury. Definately.

Now can guys get hurt on a fluke play here and there? Sure.

But, the more pressure your QB is under and the more he gets hit...that increases chances of an injury.

All this talk about Burrow becoming Andrew Luck is out there for a reason. With a bad line, you can't throw as much as we do and especially with an empty backfield.

(12-26-2020, 02:02 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah...MJ gave up what 7-8 pressures in the Washington game. And Burrow threw what about 30 pass attempts in the 1st half. And Washington has a top 5 pass rush. And we have given up a lot of sacks.

So...yes - the gameplan and personnel on both teams DEFINATELY contributed to the injury. Definately.

Now can guys get hurt on a fluke play here and there? Sure.

But, the more pressure your QB is under and the more he gets hit...that increases chances of an injury.

All this talk about Burrow becoming Andrew Luck is out there for a reason. With a bad line, you can't throw as much as we do and especially with an empty backfield.

So again why are the other QBs with bad lines not getting hurt, guess Burrow was part of problem too.

(12-26-2020, 02:05 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: So again why are the other QBs with bad lines not getting hurt, guess Burrow was part of problem too.

Are you familiar with risk? Increased risk doesn't always mean something will happen. ie Every QB with a bad line, won't get injured.

Throwing more with a bad line against a good pass rush with a Guard that gave up 7-8 pressures in that game definately increased the chances that Burrow would get hurt.

If you're too big of a Zac fanboy to realize that...

Against the Steelers, with us running the ball as much as we did and Finley only throwing what 15 times...how many times did he get hit/sacked? Now if Finley dropped back and threw 45 times, how many times do you think he would have got hit/sacked?

The more times you get hit/sacked...the more chance of getting injured. Although, it's not a guarantee you will get injured.

(12-26-2020, 02:09 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Are you familiar with risk? Increased risk doesn't always mean something will happen. ie Every QB with a bad line, won't get injured.

Throwing more with a bad line against a good pass rush with a Guard that gave up 7-8 pressures in that game definately increased the chances that Burrow would get hurt.

If you're too big of a Zac fanboy to realize that...

Against the Steelers, with us running the ball as much as we did and Finley only throwing what 15 times...how many times did he get hit/sacked? Now if Finley dropped back and threw 45 times, how many times do you think he would have got hit/sacked?

The more times you get hit/sacked...the more chance of getting injured. Although, it's not a guarantee you will get injured.

Just trying to educate you with comparison to other bad lines ..and if you are so stuck on numbers Burrow had thrown more passes in 8 games before and had taken sacks in those games than in DC game where Burrow has less passes when he got hurt and no sacks in game, but since u can see the future let me know when Burrow can lead us to a winning season handing off a great majority of the time..

(12-26-2020, 02:05 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: So again why are the other QBs with bad lines not getting hurt, guess Burrow was part of problem too.

I really think you might have Burrow derangement syndrome.

(12-26-2020, 02:27 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I really think you might have Burrow derangement syndrome.

I don't think I've ever seen so much hate for a rookie player on "supposedly" his team.

(12-26-2020, 02:27 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I really think you might have Burrow derangement syndrome.

Almost every media outlet pointed to the main cause of Joe Burrow's injury.

They put Finley in and he gets sacked 4 times and throws a pick.

Yeah it's Burrow's fault.

This guy is classic.

(12-26-2020, 02:05 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: So again why are the other QBs with bad lines not getting hurt, guess Burrow was part of problem too.

(12-26-2020, 02:18 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Just trying to educate you with comparison to other bad lines ..and if you are so stuck on numbers Burrow had thrown more passes in 8 games before and had taken sacks in those games than in DC game where Burrow has less passes when he got hurt and no sacks in game, but since u can see the future let me know when Burrow can lead us to a winning season handing off a great majority of the time..

It's called probability.  Not sure why you can't comprehend this concept!

Argue all you want about other teams with bad lines but that adds a different set of variables  Those teams don't have the Bengals line so it is not an apples to apples comparison.  It is all about the Bengal line, the number of passes, snaps out of an empty set, the bad players (or player), who is picking up the blitz, play design, etc, etc, the list goes on and on. These variables (not ones from other teams) only apply to the Bengals because they are the only ones protecting Burrow.

Get it now?

(12-25-2020, 05:35 PM)Benton Wrote: Count me in the same camp.

I think we added some good pieces the last two years and we've gotten rid of some dead weight (and will be getting rid of some more). I really think the right 3-4 players, we will be competitive. But I also think if Joe hadn't gotten injured, we would've been sitting around now with 6-7 wins.

Absolutely.  Especially if there was a normal offseason.  I know that affected every team and young player, but it had to be especially hard on rookie QBs.  They could have easily won the Charger game (think they did but got a classic NFL rectal), the Philly game, the 2nd Browns game, and then mowed through the NFC Least and ended up at the 6-7 win total you described.  

Had this been the case, we would be saying:  "OK, we can beat average to slightly above average teams, but they have to find out how to beat pitt and balt to get over the top".  


My dream finish (I am not trying to sound greedy, that MNF game was such a dream already) would be we lose to Deshawn and the Panthers, Falcons, and Eagles win this weekend.  Then, the Bengals knock off balt to knock them out of the playoffs.  Finishing the year having beating pitt and balt without Burrow would be amazing.  

I like wins. Actually, I love wins. Which is why Taylor concerns me so much. I don't actually think this roster is awful. I don't drafting Sewell is the missing piece (and despite his upside, he concerns me a bit as well if I'm being honest). I think the coaching staff don't know how to utilize the players they have and exploit another team's weaknesses on a consistent basis to win games. I think the players know they've got a decent team and have a chance to be great and go somewhere, which is why I don't agree that Zac has necessarily "lost" the locker room or that guys have given up.

I don't root for losses. I never have. Tanking is stupid.

I want to root for a winner, though. And I don't think Taylor is going to take this team to the promised land. If he does, I'll happily eat crow and plenty of it. I just don't see it. Because I find it really, really hard to believe that this team hasn't been able to put it together for 2 seasons and that beating the Steelers, who made terrible play after terrible play, is going to somehow light the little bulb above Taylor's head and turn it all around.

I want this team to win. Badly. But I want more than sub-.500 seasons. Even if the team wins out this year, it's a 5-10-1 season this year and an overall 7-24-1 record for Taylor. That's two seasons to basically match the final season win record Lewis had with the team, and after adding some new pieces and supposed offensive genius. Rooting for wins and rooting for Taylor just kinda seem to be incompatible with each other.

(12-26-2020, 04:16 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: I like wins.  Actually, I love wins.  Which is why Taylor concerns me so much.  I don't actually think this roster is awful.  I don't drafting Sewell is the missing piece (and despite his upside, he concerns me a bit as well if I'm being honest).  I think the coaching staff don't know how to utilize the players they have and exploit another team's weaknesses on a consistent basis to win games.  I think the players know they've got a decent team and have a chance to be great and go somewhere, which is why I don't agree that Zac has necessarily "lost" the locker room or that guys have given up.  

I don't root for losses.  I never have.  Tanking is stupid.  

I want to root for a winner, though.  And I don't think Taylor is going to take this team to the promised land.  If he does, I'll happily eat crow and plenty of it.  I just don't see it.  Because I find it really, really hard to believe that this team hasn't been able to put it together for 2 seasons and that beating the Steelers, who made terrible play after terrible play, is going to somehow light the little bulb above Taylor's head and turn it all around.  

I want this team to win.  Badly.  But I want more than sub-.500 seasons.  Even if the team wins out this year, it's a 5-10-1 season this year and an overall 7-24-1 record for Taylor.  That's two seasons to basically match the final season win record Lewis had with the team, and after adding some new pieces and supposed offensive genius.  Rooting for wins and rooting for Taylor just kinda seem to be incompatible with each other.

^ I'm right there with you. Great to know that this kind of thinking/feeling is here. Good post.

As much as I would like the Bengals to beat the Texans I really do want to finish the season with 2 more losses.
Count me with the crowd that wants the better draft position over moral victories.
I wanted to beat the Steelers because we had the 1 game buffer but now we need to worry about our pick.
The 3rd overall is much more than just that first pick it makes a big difference eon our 2nd and 3rd pick as well.

There is a mock draft out there that has the Bengals selecting (1) Tackle Peneii Sewell (OR) and (2) Tackle/Guard Trey Smith TN
I would like that plus I would try and sign Thuney as a FA. I know we need defense but we will never utilize our best asset without a top notch line. We need to throw as many draft picks and signed FA as we can until that is a strength of ours. That will allow us to see Mixon at his full potential which allows Burrow to be even more lethal.

A low scoring Houston game of 17-10 where our defense plays well would be a great. Then on to Baltimore and another low scoring loss to end the season with. Go Bengals!

(12-26-2020, 08:30 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: A low scoring Houston game of 17-10 where our defense plays well would be a great. Then on to Baltimore and another low scoring loss to end the season with. Go Bengals!

There's a very good chance that if we beat the Ravens we knock them out of the playoffs. Gimme that over picking 1 spot earlier. 

(12-26-2020, 10:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: There's a very good chance that if we beat the Ravens we knock them out of the playoffs. Gimme that over picking 1 spot earlier. 

Then Ryan Finley's charity could be flooded by money from fans of whoever gets in in their place. Cheap bastard better start one if he ain't got one.

(12-26-2020, 08:30 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: As much as I would like the Bengals to beat the Texans I really do want to finish the season with 2 more losses.
Count me with the crowd that wants the better draft position over moral victories.
I wanted to beat the Steelers because we had the 1 game buffer but now we need to worry about our pick.
The 3rd overall is much more than just that first pick it makes a big difference eon our 2nd and 3rd pick as well.

There is a mock draft out there that has the Bengals selecting (1) Tackle Peneii Sewell (OR) and (2) Tackle/Guard Trey Smith TN
I would like that plus I would try and sign Thuney as a FA. I know we need defense but we will never utilize our best asset without a top notch line. We need to throw as many draft picks and signed FA as we can until that is a strength of ours. That will allow us to see Mixon at his full potential which allows Burrow to be even more lethal.

A low scoring Houston game of 17-10 where our defense plays well would be a great. Then on to Baltimore and another low scoring loss to end the season with. Go Bengals!

Why worry so much about our first round pick? They rarely play their first year anyway.

(12-26-2020, 11:55 PM)jason Wrote: Then Ryan Finley's charity could be flooded by money from fans of whoever gets in in their place. Cheap bastard better start one if he ain't got one.

Hopefully the money goes to him for when he’s out of the league in a year or two...

The victory over the Steelers was a million times more fun than watching them half-throw games to get better draft position. A win today and a win the last Sunday against the Ravings would be fun, too especially because a win against the Ravings may deprive Baltimore the chance to blow it in the playoffs again.