(12-30-2020, 01:37 AM)J24 Wrote: Reader- he has only one good season in his career the rest have been meh. 

What in the world are you basing this off? Pro Bowls? A popularity contest that just snubbed arguably the best safety in the league. Sacks? That’s not his game. That Texans defense has sorely missed him. The only team giving up more rushing yards in the entire league this season is the Cowboys.

(12-30-2020, 02:02 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: What in the world are you basing this off? Pro Bowls? A popularity contest that just snubbed arguably the best safety in the league. Sacks? That’s not his game. That  Texans defense has sorely missed him. The only team giving up more rushing yards in the entire league this season is the Cowboys.

Well if you're going to be paid 13 million a year as a defensive tackle then pass rushing should be your best quality.  Your not going to win in this league by not hitting the QB.
Was wrong not to include him at top 10 at his position but still he is nose tackle so how important is that in today's game? I like him as a player but he isn't the game changer that this defense needs.
FYI the Texans were 25th in rush defense last season and gave up 4.8 yards. So how much did they miss him?

(12-29-2020, 11:37 PM)QueenCity Wrote: AFC North is typically won on the ground... sans Steelers this year. 

Having a stud LB to fill those gaps would be HUGE.  

None of the AFC North QB's outside of Burrow makes people fear them in the air.   Lets stop the run.

Yep and I bet Steelers look ro be more balanced next season

(12-30-2020, 02:13 AM)J24 Wrote: Well if you're going to be paid 13 million a year as a defensive tackle then pass rushing should be your best quality.  Your not going to win in this league by not hitting the QB.
Was wrong not to include him at top 10 at his position but still he is nose tackle so how important is that in today's game? I like him as a player but he isn't the game changer that this defense needs.
FYI the Texans were 25th in rush defense last season and gave up 4.8 yards. So how much did they miss him?

They were 24th according to this. https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opponent-rushing-yards-per-game?date=2020-02-03

And are 31st this season. That’s a pretty significant drop.

(12-30-2020, 01:14 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You can get your F-250 in other rounds

Really?  The Bengals have been attempting to find Star LBs using less than top pick for years.  Aside from Burfict, who ultimately proved why he was an UDFA, name me a Star Bengals LB?

(12-29-2020, 06:41 PM)Okeana Wrote: uh the patriots had the 7th best defense when they won and the chiefs had the 7th best defense last year... at least your name fits because you say whatever lmao

Uh, no.  The Pats ranked 21st in total defense in '18.  KC ranked 17th in '19.

I would be very satisfied if they took Micah. With how often we blow first-round picks, what is the harm in spending a high one on a guy who should be your "Joe Burrow" of the defense for the next decade. I think we'd all be satisfied if he played like Patrick Willis, Bobby Wagner or Luke Kuechly.

(12-30-2020, 10:32 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Really?  The Bengals have been attempting to find Star LBs using less than top pick for years.  Aside from Burfict, who ultimately proved why he was an UDFA, name me a Star Bengals LB?

 just don't understand some people and others who complain so much about our lack of run defense don't understand part about is we have no impact linebacker Add now we have a chance to take one finally in the top of the NFL draft wanna pass on it not even consider it  Especially in our division

(12-30-2020, 10:32 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Really?  The Bengals have been attempting to find Star LBs using less than top pick for years.  Aside from Burfict, who ultimately proved why he was an UDFA, name me a Star Bengals LB?

I didn’t realize F-250 = star player. I took it as solid, hard working, and dependable.

But I would argue you absolutely do not need a star LB to win a Super Bowl, or even be a top team. Does KC have one?

*just using KC since they’re the reigning champs

(12-30-2020, 12:10 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I didn’t realize F-250 = star player. I took it as solid, hard working, and dependable.

But I would argue you absolutely do not need a star LB to win a Super Bowl, or even be a top team. Does KC have one?  

*just using KC since they’re the reigning champs

That's an easy cherry pick, but I'll bet you that I can count more Super Bowl teams that DID have a star LB that ones who did not. 

(12-30-2020, 12:20 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That's an easy cherry pick, but I'll bet you that I can count more Super Bowl teams that DID have a star LB that ones who did not. 

Well, the game changes, so the further back you go the less relevant the examples become, imo. LB is just not as much of an impact position as it once was.

But for the record if we do draft him I’m going to immediately convince myself he’s the next Luke Kuechly. :D

(12-30-2020, 12:20 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That's an easy cherry pick, but I'll bet you that I can count more Super Bowl teams that DID have a star LB that ones who did not. 

Yea, but the games move to a more spread out game has changed it a lot in the last five years I'd say. Look at the playoff field this year. The only star linebacker I'd really say that is in the playoff field is Bobby Wagner and that defense has been awful most of the year until Dunlap got there and they found some pass rush. Now there are some good linebackers in the field like Demario Davis in NO and a few more who could get in like Roquan Smith in CHI and Dareous Leonard in IND, but none of those guys are carrying their teams in any way. 

Now look at a lot of the other teams and their linebackers are bad....

Chiefs- Bad
Bills- Have guys we know but are bad
Steelers- Everyone is hurt and has been for most the year
Titans- Very Average
Packers- Bad
Bucs- Lavonte David is really good White has not been this year

In reality, our linebackers are as good or better than a lot of the teams in the playoffs this year. We didn't miss the playoffs because of bad linebackers we missed it because of bad play on the lines which is why a lot of teams miss it. This kind of lends itself back to why teams value those positions in top 5-10 picks over linebackers. The biggest issue for us is the lack of pass rushers worth the potential pick we have but I am not going to get too bent out of shape over that until combine time because there is still a lot to be seen over the next week or two in college.

(12-30-2020, 12:10 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I didn’t realize F-250 = star player. I took it as solid, hard working, and dependable.

But I would argue you absolutely do not need a star LB to win a Super Bowl, or even be a top team. Does KC have one?  

*just using KC since they’re the reigning champs

 Does Cleveland or Baltimore o have a top receiver and they are pounding us  how can you not see if you're not winning is the division makes it very difficult to make playoffs. LB over WR if that is the choice in 1st round

(12-30-2020, 01:09 PM)Au165 Wrote: Yea, but the games move to a more spread out game has changed it a lot in the last five years I'd say. Look at the playoff field this year. The only star linebacker I'd really say that is in the playoff field is Bobby Wagner and that defense has been awful most of the year until Dunlap got there and they found some pass rush. Now there are some good linebackers in the field like Demario Davis in NO and a few more who could get in like Roquan Smith in CHI and Dareous Leonard in IND, but none of those guys are carrying their teams in any way. 

Now look at a lot of the other teams and their linebackers are bad....

Chiefs- Bad
Bills- Have guys we know but are bad
Steelers- Everyone is hurt and has been for most the year
Titans- Very Average
Packers- Bad
Bucs- Lavonte David is really good White has not been this year

In reality, our linebackers are better than a lot of the teams in the playoffs this year. We didn't miss the playoffs because of bad linebackers we missed it because of bad play on the lines which is why a lot of teams miss it. This kind of lends itself back to why teams value those positions in top 5-10 picks over linebackers. The biggest issue for us is the lack of pass rushers worth the potential pick we have but I am not going to get too bent out of shape over that until combine time because there is still a lot to be seen over the next week or two in college.

The other thing people are missing is that teams that have spent 1st rounders on stack LB's recently have not seen a quick return on investment.  Here are the PFF grades for the 4 stack LB's taken in the 1st this year...

Isaiah Simmons 60.5(sub package player, not starting)
Kenneth Murray 50.9
Patrick Queen 29.9
Jordyn Brooks 49.0

And the '19 and '20  grades for '19 1st rounders...

Devin White 51.9/43.4
Devin Bush 62.9/59.7

It doesn't make much sense to invest a 1st round pick in a position group where you can get similar performance from journeyman FA's.  Josh Bynes has a 54 grade by comparison.  Plus, we've drafted 4 stack backers over the last two drafts.  

(12-30-2020, 01:37 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote:  Does Cleveland or Baltimore o have a top receiver and they are pounding us  how can you not see if you're not winning is the division makes it very difficult to make playoffs. LB over WR if that is the choice in 1st round

Who cares about Cleveland or Baltimore’s WR’s? Those teams main strength is not their QB’s passing game.

(12-30-2020, 01:44 PM)Whatever Wrote: The other thing people are missing is that teams that have spent 1st rounders on stack LB's recently have not seen a quick return on investment.  Here are the PFF grades for the 4 stack LB's taken in the 1st this year...

Isaiah Simmons 60.5(sub package player, not starting)
Kenneth Murray 50.9
Patrick Queen 29.9
Jordyn Brooks 49.0

And the '19 and '20  grades for '19 1st rounders...

Devin White 51.9/43.4
Devin Bush 62.9/59.7

It doesn't make much sense to invest a 1st round pick in a position group where you can get similar performance from journeyman FA's.  Josh Bynes has a 54 grade by comparison.  Plus, we've drafted 4 stack backers over the last two drafts.  

And Justin Jefferson (who Chase out produced last year) has a PFF grade of 90.3. As a rookie...

(12-30-2020, 02:00 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Who cares about Cleveland or Baltimore’s WR’s? Those teams main strength is not their QB’s passing game.

  you got lost on the point you been debating draft a receiver we've in the draft  a linebacker teams in division beat us in the run a receiver isn't going to help us with that issue right now

(12-30-2020, 02:11 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote:   you got lost on the point you been debating draft a receiver we've in the draft  a linebacker teams in division beat us in the run a receiver isn't going to help us with that issue right now

Of course it will. The team that scores more points wins. And an elite WR like Chase helps score more points.

(12-29-2020, 06:52 PM)Okeana Wrote: I don't want to be considered a guy in Parsons pocket from this thread.  So I will play devil's advocate on this and suggest you go look at lsu's team stats from 2019.  Justin Jefferson who should be rookie MVP this year and by far the best WR production wise out of this draft actually was 2nd fiddle to Chase who was absolutely dominate.  

When you have the most dynamic QB/WR combo in CFB history why would you not want to recreate that in the nfl.  =)

It’s a nice thought. I just don’t see Miami passing in Chase. They need a wide receiver and are in perfect position to draft him. I think there’s at least a 75% chance he’s their pick.

That said, how does Atlanta pass up Parsons? Maybe if Sewell is still on the board, that’s how. If Philly and the Jets go QB, it’d be sweet to have Parsons fall in our lap.