Im not sold on zac, and I know every team has injuries... But... I think we would've finished with 7-8 wins if we hadn't had injuries all over the place with some of our better players. Burrow, mixon, jonah, waynes, reader. And yeah we were losing (mostly) when some of those guys were playing, but we were also still trying to get everyone on the same page.

It happens some years. And with the lack of talent on our roster, it makes a much, much bigger impact. That's what separates good teams from bad: having rosters deep enough you don't miss a handful of guys.

I don't care what happens with zac, but I think even if we have injuries this bad again next year, we finish at least 8-8.

(12-30-2020, 11:20 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: We may have started slow due to no preseason and rookie QB.

We were in almost every game. I believe we would have been 7-9 or 8-8 if we only had 2-3 injuries to similar players the Dolphins had injured.
Love to see how many games Dolphins would have won had they had injuries to 6 of their top 10 player contracts like us.

I get what you are saying, but the fact that we are playing the "what if" game to put us on par with the Dolphins isn't a ringing endorsement. 

(12-30-2020, 11:06 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: How about when we signed BW Webb, Wynn, and a bunch of scrub free agents from the coaches former teams? Think that had a hand in that?

We were singing his praises last offseason when we signed Reader, Bell, Alexander, XSF and Waynes (TBD). Add Brandon Allen to the serviceable FA list as well.

They’ve brought in Covington who has done ok given the circumstances and Bynes has seemed like a decent stop gap addition as well.

FA year 2 wasn’t too shabby honestly. If it wasn’t for injury I think we’d feel even better about it.

(12-30-2020, 11:54 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: We were singing his praises last offseason when we signed Reader, Bell, Alexander, XSF and Waynes (TBD). Add Brandon Allen to the serviceable FA list as well.

They’ve brought in Covington who has done ok given the circumstances and Bynes has seemed like a decent stop gap addition as well.

FA year 2 wasn’t too shabby honestly. If it wasn’t for injury I think we’d feel even better about it.

Yeah we've had much better free agency periods lately. It's a lot better than previous years when it was "bengals announce HUGE haul in free agency... Andy Dalton is resigned and a backup linebacker signed from someone's practice squad."

(12-30-2020, 11:01 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: What you're missing is we sucked when guys like Burrow and Reader were healthy. It's not like we started well then injuries derailed the year.

Injuries are an excuse. AJ and Jonah were the excuses last year.

I think you are missing that Trae Waynes did not play at all. CJ Uzomah played 1.5 games. Geno Atkins played hurt all year, AJ Green played so he did not get hurt. Carlos Dunlap was not in the mood to play.

Everyone talks about the job Kevin Stefanski has done. Did we all forget he took over a Browns team that was picked the year before to go deep into the playoffs. The Browns have also had pretty good success with limited injuries.

(12-30-2020, 10:59 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Ridiculous. Coaches improve like players. Totally ridiculous.

Good coaches are generally good coaches from the start and dont take a 6 win team to a 2 win team.

Oh, ok.... I guess that's why they all start off at the top level.

(12-31-2020, 12:00 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Oh, ok.... I guess that's why they all start off at the top level.

Uhhh ya. That’s why Pete Carroll did so well as the head coach of the Jets and Patriots.

(12-30-2020, 11:01 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: What you're missing is we sucked when guys like Burrow and Reader were healthy. It's not like we started well then injuries derailed the year.

Injuries are an excuse. AJ and Jonah were the excuses last year.

Couldn't disagree with you more here or pretty much 99% of your posts

(12-30-2020, 05:55 PM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: Flores is a hell of a coach, and I don't even wanna argue that one.  Ha!  

But I would say I thought Zac built a hell of a competitive team in the offseason.  His plan even made sense, which was to build a defense that would stop the run and stop missing tackles, and then he built an offense (including thru the draft) that would be able to attack.  

Even with the injuries aside, for me ZT passed the eye test in terms of being a fan on the couch watching the Bengals this year.  Prior to Burrow going down, I was actually not ready to turn it off at halftime, I was not slumped in my couch seat just reading my phone with it on in the background, I was watching the Bengals play competitive football!  

And no, I am not defending ZT for an 8-8 season or anything like that.  I think he will take us to the promised land.  Sure, it's faith and it certainly ain't based on his W/L stats, but I just like what I've seen and do believe we're in for some brighter days ahead.  

If next year is a dud, you'll see me at the front gates of the castle with a pitchfork, first in line :) 

The line in front of the castle started last season... You'll be nowhere near the front of it by next season.

(12-30-2020, 10:52 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: This is the Bengals...6-10 in year 3 probably gets him another year if some of those wins are late in the year.

... Or they're close losses. Those are the best. We're right there. Missed it by inches...

But nah seriously... Two in a row. Good job Zac!

(12-30-2020, 10:56 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If coaches improve with time we might be in trouble because despite having no pre-season, losing their best WR to injury, and having issues related to covid the Browns managed to win 10+ games with a rookie HC.  That's the issue with playing the waiting game with ZT.  We are the odd-man out any way you slice it.

Ravens/Harbaugh
12 years as HC - 1 SB ring
Regular season: 127–79 (.617)
Postseason: 10–7 (.588)
Career: 137–86 (.614)

Steelers/Tomlin
13 years as HC - 1 SB ring
Regular season: 145–77–1 (.652)
Postseason: 8–7 (.533)
Career: 153–84–1 (.645)

Browns/Stefanski
1st year as HC
Regular season: 10–5 (.667)
Postseason: TBD probably 0-1

Bengals/ZT
2 years as HC
Regular season: 6–24–1 (.210)
Postseason: 0-0


It was easier to play the "wait and see" game when we at least had the Browns flopping with Fatty Kitchens and Hue.  Now that they've rebooted their team with a rookie HC we have one team that turned on a dime and two teams that have had the same HC for over a decade and have championships and winning records in the regular and post season.  No one else in this division had to wait 3+ years for their HC to "get it" so why did we?  Is Stefanski going to improve? If so the Browns could give us trouble for a long time.

Your lack of faith is disturbing...

What you're missing in your assessment is that Stefanski was sucking for a coupla years wherever he was... I mean REALLY sucked at his job. Then after some years go by he was a less sucky guy (getting good at his job), and he became a coordinator. He was pretty good at that, so he go a promotion outta state.

Stefanski didn't inherit the mess that Zac did either. The Browns are and have been a template for success in the NFL. It takes time to clean up a mess... Says every loafing underachiever ever.

We should definitely move on from Zac, but it's very unlikely at this point. We can only hope that there will be major coaching changes elsewhere and those assistants can somehow elevate Zac, which is a sad statement.

(12-31-2020, 12:00 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Oh, ok.... I guess that's why they all start off at the top level.

Was thinking the same thing... 

How can someone be so dumb to not think that coaches improve over time. Everyone in every job on the planet gets better as they do the job more.

This isn't to say that Taylor is the correct choice, but to say coaches don't get better over time is just a flat out lie or the statement of someone so narrowminded they'll lie to try and make their point.

So if coaches get better over time, then the so will the Browns head coach and Bengals will continue to be out coached for years to come.

(12-31-2020, 11:10 AM)Destro Wrote: So if coaches get better over time, then the so will the Browns head coach and Bengals will continue to be out coached for years to come.

So at the moment we are waiting for 3 teams in our division to take big steps backwards when we've merely spent the past 15 years waiting for the Steelers and Ravens to regress.  Ouch. 

(12-31-2020, 02:02 PM)Nately120 Wrote: So at the moment we are waiting for 3 teams in our division to take big steps backwards when we've merely spent the past 15 years waiting for the Steelers and Ravens to regress.  Ouch.

   

Congrats to Taylor on getting 2 wins in a row lol

I don't understand us winning a couple games at the end of a terrible season after the first terrible season is giving
people hope in Taylor. I am usually one of the most positive guys on this board and liked the Taylor pick in the beginning
even. If we got a proven coach to work with these players and decent proven coaches across the board without ego we
could compete in this Division. 1 win against the Steelers is settling for mediocrity once again.

Sorry, I hope Taylor comes around and grows as a coach. The last 2 games were nice but I need to see him keep it up.

We need to get better at blocking and tackling. Need to protect Burrow and give him everything he needs to succeed.

If Taylor sticks around I hope he can do this, also hope he hands the reigns of play calling over to someone else. If he
does this it will give me more hope, have said for a long time this is too much on a young HC's plate. Do what he does
best and communicate with the players, get a proven OC, OL coach and DC and we could be good.

With Burrow I think we can beat anybody, I just don't like putting everything on his shoulders.

(12-31-2020, 12:00 AM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: I think you are missing that Trae Waynes did not play at all. CJ Uzomah played 1.5 games. Geno Atkins played hurt all year, AJ Green played so he did not get hurt. Carlos Dunlap was not in the mood to play.

Everyone talks about the job Kevin Stefanski has done. Did we all forget he took over a Browns team that was picked the year before to go deep into the playoffs. The Browns have also had pretty good success with limited injuries.

EVERY TEAM deals with injuries. Guess what? Next year...we'll have guys injured!

(12-31-2020, 02:38 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Was thinking the same thing... 

How can someone be so dumb to not think that coaches improve over time. Everyone in every job on the planet gets better as they do the job more.

This isn't to say that Taylor is the correct choice, but to say coaches don't get better over time is just a flat out lie or the statement of someone so narrowminded they'll lie to try and make their point.

Some coaches are good at the start. Cowher, 11-5 his 1st year. Stefanski year 1, 10-5.

You're just using wishful thinking because Zac is TERRIBLE. If he came in and had 8-9 wins...I doubt you'd be saying how coaches improve.

Did Dave Shula improve over time? He must be a HOF coach now?

(12-31-2020, 06:10 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: EVERY TEAM deals with injuries. Guess what? Next year...we'll have guys injured!

True, good coaches can overcome the injuries.

You have to protect your young future QB is the biggest deal to me. MJ shouldn't of been starting, he was playing terrible
before the Burrow injury. Everyone was afraid that was going to happen and it happened strangely enough. This is on the 
coaches for not seeing it.