(01-03-2021, 11:32 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Well, that certainly is a game changer.. Let's hope that this rumor has legs.

I'm hoping Sunset, I just have zero confidence in this guy and his bunch. And I hate to see JB languish with another season of it.

I'm hoping to wake up tomorrow to the news of zac taylor is fired. Anybody see his press conference today? He didnt know anything going on, all he could say is I dont know. I liked taylor at first,but not anymore. I dont ever see him holding up a Lombardi.

OP makes a good point. Any coach with a track record of success would stay far away from Zac.

(01-03-2021, 07:48 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: So it looks like we're going to be filling a number of coaching positions.  And let's assume for this thread that Zac Taylor is coming back.

Who the hell would take a job on this staff, knowing there is very good possibility Taylor doesn't last more than another year?  Why would anyone, that has any other options, take a job here?

If Zac Taylor gets shit-canned then that means a new coach, with a whole new group of assistants potentially coming in.

I'm sorry, but if we keep this guy we're almost guaranteeing that we're going to be filling these spots with coaches that have no other comparable options.  They'll either be out of work, or they'll be taking on a role here that they couldn't get anywhere else.

Fwiw, I saw in another thread that somewhat posted a link about how we're approachining candidates.  It looks like we offering shorter contracts.  This tells me the Bengals know that there is a possibility that Zac may not last and they don't want to be on the hook paying assistants if they choose to clean house.

So, again, who the hells takes these jobs?  Joining a potential lame duck coach....  Joining a team that is more likely to hurt your resume than help it....  Joining a team that asks their coaches to also handle scouting. ... Joining a team that is rumored to be offering short deals.... Joining a team that isn't known to pay a ton of money to their position coaches.

We're going to be left with the left-overs and under-experienced.  Why not just clean house rather than try to piece together a staff with this loser of a head coach?

Dead on.  I have been saying this over and over in other threads.  This is EXACTLY like how they approached the season of 2020:  They didn't go all in on the rebuild (Dolphins) and get what they could LAST YEAR for Dunlap, Green, Atkins but they went halfway...made a few FA moves, kept some aging vets, and here we are 4-11-1 and Burrow is fresh of ACL surgery.

No use crying over last year's mistakes.  And before anyone throws the injury card out there, I will counter by saying the BEST CASE scenario this past year was everyone stays healthy and the Bengals eek out an 8-8 season.  Hello mediocrity, my old friend.  

Learn from last year's mistake.  Go all in this time:  Jettison the has-beens.  Blow up the coaching staff.  Offer the moon and stars to someone like Pat Fitzgerald (although I doubt he would ever leave there...talk about a guy that gets the most of his talent) and let him build the staff he wants.  

Stop settling for "we will be fine" or "good enough" or "can still play" and go for one thing:  ELITE.  You have the QB.  Now build around him TODAY.  Unless your desire is to sell so few tickets that you move the team to Miami (Major League reference, I know they already have a team), then you need to admit your mistakes and blow them up.  Do it now.  Don't wait until the end of next season.  I don't care if the team is 100% healthy and you sign Joe Thuney and Brandin Cooks and find some way to make that work under the cap.  You will STILL be 8-8 next year as a best case scenario.  That simply isn't good enough.  

(01-03-2021, 08:11 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Someone who wants to come in and shine in their new position and put themselves in the conversation for HC?

That mindset also needs to acknowledge the risk of sabotaging the team, a la Bruce Coslet.  

(01-03-2021, 10:12 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yeah, but he’s got girly hair...

A couple points:  

My son has blond curly hair like that and you are absolutely right, it does attract girls.  I mean, damn son.

I think he (Herbert) cut his hair.

Lastly, Burrow had long hair before he went to LSU.  

Ok, I think that is enough.  

(01-03-2021, 10:21 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Mike Florio just said on SNF pregame  "The rumor is Zac Taylor is safe, my understanding is he's not entirely safe" FWIW

You mean Florio-douche has something to stir shit in Cincy?  No....

I think he still believes Burrow is trying to force his way out of here.  Assbag.  

(01-03-2021, 11:04 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: Someone with ambition and confidence in their abilities.

I know everyone here is cynical and pessimistic (and not without reason if you're a long term fan) but coaches tend to be optimistic and back their abilities.

There are far worse landing spots than Cincy if you are an aspiring O-line coach. You already have one first rounder to work with in Jonah Williams, someone whose appetite for learning means he keeps spreadsheets about each pass-rusher he faces. You're then going to get a high draft pick (quite possibly Penei Sewell) and a top free agent like Scherff or Thuney and they'll be playing in front of a QB (and RBs) who can make them look good.

If you make the Bengals' O-line even mediocre you'll have enhanced your reputation. And most O-line coaches would back themselves to do so given the tools.

In contrast Defensive Co-ordinator looks less appealing. The Bengals are set to lose their best corner and best pass-rusher. Off-season acquisition (draft/free agency) looks to prioritize the O-line, meaning D is set to be neglected in the draft once more.

I can't help but think yesterday's game COULD have been a boost to this franchise in terms of looking at potential of the team from the outside looking in.  Not to win, necessarily, but have a competitive game where you showed creativity on offense and toughness on defense.  Instead, you look like the worst team in football.  Anyone else think the Jets or Jags would have pounded the Bengals yesterday?  

It was VERY disappointing.  And I am sure that the position coaches rumored to be fired were less than enthusiastic but the coordinators like Callahan and Anarumo looked like amateurs out there.   

I am sure someone has probably already said this, but there are hundreds of coaches desperate to get a job with an NFL team. There would be nothing "insane" about taking a position with the Bengals. Most of the time when head coaches are fired some of the assistants are retained. And even if they are not they at least have another year of NFL experience on their resume.

Zac will find assistant coaches, but what remains to be known is the quality of the coaches. Fredtoast is right, an NFL coaching job is still a sought after position even if it is for a poorly run franchise.

(01-04-2021, 12:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am sure someone has probably already said this, but there are hundreds of coaches desperate to get a job with an NFL team.  There would be nothing "insane" about taking a position with the Bengals.  Most of the time when head coaches are fired some of the assistants are retained.  And even if they are not they at least have another year of NFL experience on their resume.

The thread was made with the understanding that I'm talking about coaches who have options.  I even referenced that several times in my post.

Of course they will be able to fill theses positions and I'm sure there will be coaches eager to step in.  But these people will be left-overs with very little options or they'll be taking on a role they wouldn't get elsewhere.

If you think it was hard for him to fill out his staff in year 1 wait until year 3. 

(01-03-2021, 07:48 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: So it looks like we're going to be filling a number of coaching positions.  And let's assume for this thread that Zac Taylor is coming back.

Who the hell would take a job on this staff, knowing there is very good possibility Taylor doesn't last more than another year?  Why would anyone, that has any other options, take a job here?

If Zac Taylor gets shit-canned then that means a new coach, with a whole new group of assistants potentially coming in.

I'm sorry, but if we keep this guy we're almost guaranteeing that we're going to be filling these spots with coaches that have no other comparable options.  They'll either be out of work, or they'll be taking on a role here that they couldn't get anywhere else.

Fwiw, I saw in another thread that somewhat posted a link about how we're approachining candidates.  It looks like we offering shorter contracts.  This tells me the Bengals know that there is a possibility that Zac may not last and they don't want to be on the hook paying assistants if they choose to clean house.

So, again, who the hells takes these jobs?  Joining a potential lame duck coach....  Joining a team that is more likely to hurt your resume than help it....  Joining a team that asks their coaches to also handle scouting. ... Joining a team that is rumored to be offering short deals.... Joining a team that isn't known to pay a ton of money to their position coaches.

We're going to be left with the left-overs and under-experienced.  Why not just clean house rather than try to piece together a staff with this loser of a head coach?

:andy: :andy: :andy: :andy: :andy:

(01-04-2021, 01:38 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: The thread was made with the understanding that I'm talking about coaches who have options.  I even referenced that several times in my post.

Of course they will be able to fill theses positions and I'm sure there will be coaches eager to step in.  But these people will be left-overs with very little options or they'll be taking on a role they wouldn't get elsewhere.

If you think it was hard for him to fill out his staff in year 1 wait until year 3. 

Exactly.  People also need to remember as well that it's not just a question of who would come to the Bengals... the team has to reach out to them first.  So just because there are 100 people who could fill the role, doesn't mean the team will reach out to them to ask, or do their due diligence to see who might actually be great in filling the role. 

Anyway... Zac likes to be the man.  He'll probably just take on all the roles himself.  He don't need no stinkin' assistants.  

(01-04-2021, 01:38 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: The thread was made with the understanding that I'm talking about coaches who have options.  I even referenced that several times in my post.

Of course they will be able to fill theses positions and I'm sure there will be coaches eager to step in.  But these people will be left-overs with very little options or they'll be taking on a role they wouldn't get elsewhere.

If you think it was hard for him to fill out his staff in year 1 wait until year 3. 

Have the Bengals ever been an attractive destination for lateral hires?

Hasn't position coach recruitment almost always been hiring the unemployed, with the occasional promotion thrown in?

There might be the odd exception that moves for personal reasons but generally they are drawing their recruits from those without jobs/lesser jobs. 

Look at Marvin Lewis' most celebrated positional coach hires
Franck Pollack - had been sacked by Dallas
James Urban - promotion from assistant job 
Vance Joseph - had been sacked from Houston
Alex Van Pelt - let go by the Packers
Hue Jackson - had been sacked by Washington, and then for his second spell he'd been sacked by Oakland and then for his third spell (not a position coach) after he'd been sacked by Cleveland
Paul Guenther - internal promotion after having been on staff for 7 years
Bob Bicknell - promoted from college ranks
Jonathan Hayes - promoted from college ranks
Jim Haslett - had been sacked by Washington
Bill Lazor - fired by Miami
Jacob Burney - was not retained by Washington
Ken Zampese - fired by Rams
Kevin Coyle - fired by Miami
Mark Carrier - let go by Jets 
Matt Burke - let go by Detroit

(01-04-2021, 03:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't consider guys who were fired as head coaches as "lateral hires".  Same for guys who were let go as Coordinators who then came here as position coaches.

Guys who were fired are unemployed.

(01-04-2021, 03:28 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: James Urban - promotion from assistant job 

Left Eagles position as assistant offensive coordinator to come to Bengals as WR coach

(01-04-2021, 03:28 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: Paul Guenther - internal promotion after having been on staff for 7 years

Hired away from Redskins in 2005.

Marvin's first DC Leslie Frazier was hired away from Eagles where he was a DB coach.

Quickest way to ruin a franchise QB is give him multiple offenses in the first 3 years. There's a reason that Zac is back and 99% is the growth and development of Burrow. I'm not taking any chances there.

That being said, lets see how the offseason goes. Last year's was damn solid. Let's do the same on the offensive side of the ball this year.

If it doesn't result in a playoff spot, bring in a guy that runs a good offense in Brady and the offense shouldn't miss a beat.

(01-04-2021, 12:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am sure someone has probably already said this, but there are hundreds of coaches desperate to get a job with an NFL team.  There would be nothing "insane" about taking a position with the Bengals.  Most of the time when head coaches are fired some of the assistants are retained.  And even if they are not they at least have another year of NFL experience on their resume.

Key word desperate.