(01-04-2021, 08:44 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Wr outside of Higgins and Boyd are absolutely terrible. And TE is even weaker.

I will have to agree TE might be weaker.. but LB is way weaker than WR.. 

Tell me the rookie LB that made all rookie team plus we have Boyd... and we have them under contract.. we don;t have Byne under contract and could be worse off...

(12-29-2020, 04:59 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I don't know, KG.  But it seems like a LB of the quality of Parsons could have snuffed out those two long runs we gave up Sunday, before they got past the line of scrimmage.  Those killer instincts, combined with the devastating inside blitz and above average coverage skills would really add a missing dimension to the defense.

A DC can only scheme based on the talent of his players. I think you added to the argument we as fans sometimes get caught up on talent level alone. But give a DC a new toy that allows the defense to play different looks and schemes while not changing personnel may be as important.

The defenses that are bland are the ones a great OC will figure out quickly and destroy. Adding a smart and instinctive LB calling the shots and getting others in right position based on offensive formation is a major plus.

He should definitely be in the conversation if available when we pick at #5 or later.

(01-04-2021, 08:02 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: As I stated before.. part of your drafting is to compete within your division.. and if you look at our division.. LB moves up a notch in priority... and i would say it still one of our weakest areas since we are so young and probably going to lose Byne to FA... If we sign Lawson that lessens pass rush push in 1st round, if we sign a major tackle that lessens tackle at #5 and if we sign Jackson that lessens CB.. now you look at our depth at WR and LB plus our division and it just says LB over WR for me..

I still prefer to trade back  but I support LB as #5 pick unless we get a good one in FA

I get your logic but I don't think Anarumo puts LB at the top of his list of important pieces, as evidenced by only spending the 28th most cap on LBs at just $5.7 mill in 2020. If LB was more important, they probably would have gone after a better vet than Josh Bynes (who was not good).

(01-05-2021, 10:29 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I get your logic but I don't think Anarumo puts LB at the top of his list of important pieces, as evidenced by only spending the 28th most cap on LBs at just $5.7 mill in 2020. If LB was more important, they probably would have gone after a better vet than Josh Bynes (who was not good).

Captian Lou also heavily rotates his linebackers. Would also like to see how Logan Wilson and ADG develop in year two.

(01-05-2021, 10:41 AM)Synric Wrote: Captian Lou also heavily rotates his linebackers. Would also like to see how Logan Wilson and ADG develop in year two.

Very true. Pratt is also entering Year 3, which is typically when a mid-round LB truly blossoms (if at all).
Unfortunately, the Bengals entire LB corp was filled with players who need to elevate their play, and I'm sure their lack of experience contributed to why the defense as a whole was not good.

(01-05-2021, 10:41 AM)Synric Wrote: Captian Lou also heavily rotates his linebackers. Would also like to see how Logan Wilson and ADG develop in year two.

Wilson actually graded higher than 3 of the 4 LB's taken in the first last year.  

Run defense is also a lot more about the DL controlling the LoS, keeping the OL from making 2nd level blocks, and the entire unit maintaining their gaps and leverage than it is individual play.  Getting Reader, Tupou, and Wren back should really help with the first two. Experience will help with the third.

(01-05-2021, 01:24 PM)Whatever Wrote: Wilson actually graded higher than 3 of the 4 LB's taken in the first last year.  

Run defense is also a lot more about the DL controlling the LoS, keeping the OL from making 2nd level blocks, and the entire unit maintaining their gaps and leverage than it is individual play.  Getting Reader, Tupou, and Wren back should really help with the first two. Experience will help with the third.

Im happy Wilson had good year.. but there are 3 other LBs.. and Byne is probably not coming back.. we have had good Dline over the last few years and still did not stop the run.. what we have not had a is a really good LB... they both are important in a defense against run.. especially is a 3/4

(01-05-2021, 02:39 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Im happy Wilson had good year.. but there are 3 other LBs.. and Byne is probably not coming back.. we have had good Dline over the last few years and still did not stop the run.. what we have not had a is a really good LB... they both are important in a defense against run.. especially is a 3/4

He didn't have a good year.  He only graded at 54.7.  Problem is, stack LB has become another draft and develop type position where young players struggle.  Parsons will be bad-mediocre as a rookie, too, in all likelihood.  Anybody thinking he's going to be a Pro Bowler or even good starter as a rookie isn't being realistic. There's a "can't miss" LB prospect every year. Isaiah Simmons was it this past year, and he didn't even start as a rookie. The year before, it was White, who's still a bad starter.   If you're willing to be patient and give the guy a few years to come around, then maybe.  However, if you're already throwing in the towel on Pratt, Wilson, ADG, and Bailey, the you'll more than likely do the same thing with Parsons and we'll be back at square one the following year.

(01-05-2021, 04:12 PM)Whatever Wrote: He didn't have a good year.  He only graded at 54.7.  Problem is, stack LB has become another draft and develop type position where young players struggle.  Parsons will be bad-mediocre as a rookie, too, in all likelihood.  Anybody thinking he's going to be a Pro Bowler or even good starter as a rookie isn't being realistic. There's a "can't miss" LB prospect every year. Isaiah Simmons was it this past year, and he didn't even start as a rookie. The year before, it was White, who's still a bad starter.   If you're willing to be patient and give the guy a few years to come around, then maybe.  However, if you're already throwing in the towel on Pratt, Wilson, ADG, and Bailey, the you'll more than likely do the same thing with Parsons and we'll be back at square one the following year.

Parson is going to go in 4 to 10 pick, your idea of "can't miss" can go to every position.. I could say that about "Chase" etc..  you act like Parson is a 3/4 round pick.. it is one thing to say don;t pick a  LB with #5 pick but to act like Parson is not projected  to be a high pick and to be an impact player well is inaccurate . 

Player A:
Games played at LB - 24
Total tackles - 207
Tackles for Loss - 22.5
Sacks - 12.5
INTs - 2
Passes Defended - 5
FF - 2
FR - 2

Player B:
Games played at LB - 26
Total tackles - 191
Tackles for Loss - 14.0
Sacks - 6.5
INTs - 0
Passes Defended - 5
FF - 6
FR - 1

Both will be in the draft. One is Micah Parsons. The other is expected to be probably a Day 2 pick.
Who would you rather have?

I rather have Parsons.... and when he is drafted in top 4 to 10 picks.. that tells you what the NFL scouts think of him...

Was having the conversation in another thread, so thought I'd do it here, Zaven Collins is Micah Parsons from a small school but can actually cover. You would be better off trading back and taking him than Parsons in my mind if we want to talk value. Collins could play in a multiple scheme year 1 and not ever come off the field because he is a liability, you won't be able to say the same things about Parsons year 1.

(01-05-2021, 05:42 PM)Au165 Wrote: Was having the conversation in another thread, so thought I'd do it here, Zaven Collins is Micah Parsons from a small school but can actually cover. You would be better off trading back and taking him than Parsons in my mind if we want to talk value. Collins could play in a multiple scheme year 1 and not ever come off the field because he is a liability, you won't be able to say the same things about Parsons year 1.

I think this analysis is a bit different.. Hammer time
https://www.profootballnetwork.com/micah-parsons-nfl-draft-player-profile-penn-state-linebacker/

(01-05-2021, 05:57 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I think this analysis is a bit different.. Hammer time
https://www.profootballnetwork.com/micah-parsons-nfl-draft-player-profile-penn-state-linebacker/

Again, I'd rather have Collins at 18-25 than Parsons at 5 from a value perspective. I personally don't think Parsons can cover at an NFL level when you watch him whereas I know Collins can. If Collins runs well at the combine, I think you will see the debate heat up between the two.

(01-05-2021, 05:02 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I rather have Parsons.... and when he is drafted in top 4 to 10 picks.. that tells you what the NFL scouts think of him...

Off-ball LBs, even if drafted Top 10, haven't been having as big of an impact as we'd think/like.

Off-ball LBs drafted top 10 the past 5 years and how they performed in 2020 according to PFF:
Isaiah Simmons (8th overall 2020) - 35th overall LB at 59.9
Devin White (5th overall 2019) - 79th overall LB at 43.4
Devin Bush (10th overall 2019) - Only 278 snaps so DNQ for position rankings, but 59.7 rating.
Roquan Smith (8th overall 2018) - 19th overall LB at 67.2

From what we see, many LBs are taking a while to become impactful. And taking one in the 1st round is not paying off like some would hope/expect.

The Top 10 LBs in 2020:
Fred Warner (Rd 3 2018) - 88.6
Denzel Perryman (Rd 2 2015) - 83.3
Bobby Wagner (Rd 2 2012) - 83.2
Erik Kendricks (Rd 2 2015) - 82.6
Lavonte David (Rd 2 2012) - 81.6
Demario Davis (Rd 3 2012) - 78.1
Blake Martinez (Rd 4 2016) - 75.9
KJ Wright (Rd 4 2011) - 75.3
Mykal Walker (Rd 4 2020) - 74.0
Darius Leonard (Rd 2 2018) - 72.6

Looks like the sweet spot is on Day 2. Six in Rd 2, two in Rd 3, two in Rd 4. 0 in Rds 1 or 5-7.

After my initial infatuation with Parsons, i'm now off the train for the #5 pick. 

Even if the dude turns out to be Kuechley, he started slow his first 2 years in the league. Bengals need some instant impact.

Right now i'm firmly on the Oline in FA and 2nd or 3rd round pick, Chase at #5 and convert Tate to a tweener TE. 

(01-05-2021, 09:06 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: After my initial infatuation with Parsons, i'm now off the train for the #5 pick. 

Even if the dude turns out to be Kuechley, he started slow his first 2 years in the league. Bengals need some instant impact.

Right now i'm firmly on the Oline in FA and 2nd or 3rd round pick, Chase at #5 and convert Tate to a tweener TE. 

It makes good sense so long as they do get FA o line

(01-05-2021, 10:27 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: It makes good sense so long as they do get FA o line

That seems to be what the "latest reports" are indicating. Oline in FA and weapons at the top of the draft.

If we think Parsons won't make an immediate impact in year 1.... then I'd be fine taking another player.

Still think he ends up a stud... but I know we need to strike on Burrow rookie contract

(01-05-2021, 10:52 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: That seems to be what the "latest reports" are indicating. Oline in FA and weapons at the top of the draft.

Honestly I’m just happy they have a plan this offseason. If they execute it, they should be fun to watch again.