(01-05-2021, 10:58 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Honestly I’m just happy they have a plan this offseason. If they execute it, they should be fun to watch again.

True and thb, they've made some strides on 'doing things differently' the last couple years. 

If they keep it up, they may just change those 1/2 measures to 3/4 measures.  

Ok, that might be a bit much. Let's just say 2/3 measures. Baby steps. 

(01-05-2021, 04:34 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Parson is going to go in 4 to 10 pick, your idea of "can't miss" can go to every position.. I could say that about "Chase" etc..  you act like Parson is a 3/4 round pick.. it is one thing to say don;t pick a  LB with #5 pick but to act like Parson is not projected  to be a high pick and to be an impact player well is inaccurate . 

No he’s not. He just gave you examples of two LBers that were recently taken in the top 10 (White 5th & Simmons 8th). And he didn’t say Parsons won’t be an impact player, he said history has shown he probably won’t be one anytime soon.

(01-05-2021, 11:03 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: True and thb, they've made some strides on 'doing things differently' the last couple years. 

If they keep it up, they may just change those 1/2 measures to 3/4 measures.  

Ok, that might be a bit much. Let's just say 2/3 measures. Baby steps. 

At least when it comes to personnel moves and FA they are starting to figure it out!

Still not there when it comes to coaching though!

(01-05-2021, 11:03 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: True and thb, they've made some strides on 'doing things differently' the last couple years. 

If they keep it up, they may just change those 1/2 measures to 3/4 measures.  

Ok, that might be a bit much. Let's just say 2/3 measures. Baby steps. 

At least when it comes to personnel moves and FA they are starting to figure it out!

Still not there when it comes to coaching though!

(01-05-2021, 04:34 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Parson is going to go in 4 to 10 pick, your idea of "can't miss" can go to every position.. I could say that about "Chase" etc..  you act like Parson is a 3/4 round pick.. it is one thing to say don;t pick a  LB with #5 pick but to act like Parson is not projected  to be a high pick and to be an impact player well is inaccurate . 

There hasn't been a stack LB drafted in the top 10 with a rookie PFF grade of over 70 since Anthony Barr in '14, and he barely qualifies at 70.4.  The closest guy to him in that timeframe is Roquan Smith in '18 with a 64.2.  There is no logical reason to believe Parsons will be a stud impact player as a rookie based on current trends at the position.  

I don’t have a strong opinion on pff grades. Watching the Ravens, Patrick Queen had an impressive rookie impact even though pff says otherwise (who I think is the closest comparison to Parsons). Parsons is better in every way besides coverage which I don’t know, which would make him a very good player.

I like what I see but a stronger pass rusher this cycle would be a more welcome addition.

(12-29-2020, 04:40 PM)Okeana Wrote: So I know we just came off a draft where we got linebackers, but I have to ask the question.  Would you take a Ray Lewis or Luke Kuechly in this years draft if given the chance?  He's arguably right there with Sewell from a talent evaluation standpoint.  

I AM NOT SAYING we should or shouldn't draft him, but I want to hear from a talent perspective if we're sitting at pick 5 or 6 and this guy is on the board it's a discussion that needs to be had.

Tough position to hit a HR with but if I knew he could be that good I would be all in for Parsons.

Someone with more LB knowledge than me would have to figure that out.

I actually thought our LB's looked much better covering TE's and also RB's trying to get around end.

If he could solidify that group it would be worth the pick.

(01-06-2021, 11:45 PM)willieFANderson Wrote: I don’t have a strong opinion on pff grades. Watching the Ravens, Patrick Queen had an impressive rookie impact even though pff says otherwise (who I think is the closest comparison to Parsons). Parsons is better in every way besides coverage which I don’t know, which would make him a very good player.

I like what I see but a stronger pass rusher this cycle would be a more welcome addition.

Queen is terrible.  He led the league in missed tackles and allowed a 117.5 passer rating when targeted.  He occasionally makes a big splash play that makes people who aren't paying think he's a lot better than he really is.  

(01-06-2021, 11:45 PM)willieFANderson Wrote: I don’t have a strong opinion on pff grades. Watching the Ravens, Patrick Queen had an impressive rookie impact even though pff says otherwise (who I think is the closest comparison to Parsons). Parsons is better in every way besides coverage which I don’t know, which would make him a very good player.

I like what I see but a stronger pass rusher this cycle would be a more welcome addition.

(01-07-2021, 01:22 AM)Whatever Wrote: Queen is terrible.  He led the league in missed tackles and allowed a 117.5 passer rating when targeted.  He occasionally makes a big splash play that makes people who aren't paying think he's a lot better than he really is.  

He had his best game, by far, against the Bengals in week 5. 88.5 grade and 72+ across the board. 

Of his other 15 games, he graded below 50 in nine of them. Overall for the year his final grade was a paltry 29.8 and he graded 30 or below in 4 of the 5 categories. 

(01-07-2021, 01:46 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: He had his best game, by far, against the Bengals in week 5. 88.5 grade and 72+ across the board. 

Of his other 15 games, he graded below 50 in nine of them. Overall for the year his final grade was a paltry 29.8 and he graded 30 or below in 4 of the 5 categories. 

Obviously you know where my opinion came from. I was actually anti-Queen for most of the draft process but the potential is still there. His strength was his pass coverage skills so maybe it is how the ravens are using him. Logan Wilson surprised me with his talent and Pratt is better than some think. Having a dynamic MLB will help a lot but I still question if the marginal value will be worth a top 5 pick.

(01-05-2021, 04:40 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Player A:
Games played at LB - 24
Total tackles - 207
Tackles for Loss - 22.5
Sacks - 12.5
INTs - 2
Passes Defended - 5
FF - 2
FR - 2

Player B:
Games played at LB - 26
Total tackles - 191
Tackles for Loss - 14.0
Sacks - 6.5
INTs - 0
Passes Defended - 5
FF - 6
FR - 1

Both will be in the draft. One is Micah Parsons. The other is expected to be probably a Day 2 pick.
Who would you rather have?

I would want to know their 40 times and what conference both players played.

(01-08-2021, 10:36 AM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: I would want to know their 40 times and what conference both players played.

I can't give 40 times since the Combine hasn't happened, but one is Big 10, the other is ACC.

I watched the Peyton Place interview with Ray Lewis on ESPN. Great interview.
Just like Offense individual defensive players are only as good as the whole defensive unit.

Ray Lewis said he could not have played the way he did without his def line.
Those guys would occupy 2 blockers letting him free to make plays.

Without a good defensive line I am not sure Ray Lewis would be the Ray Lewis we know on this team.

I think we get the best offensive player at number 5 and build up that side of the ball.

Bucky Brooks on Parsons-

“I’ve known him since HS. The only thing that scares me about him is his level of immaturity. Some of the inconsistency is due to the immaturity.”

That is going to be something teams are going to hammer in the interviews. If you got someone like that telling you straight up he is immature that is a big red flag.

(01-06-2021, 11:46 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: Tough position to hit a HR with but if I knew he could be that good I would be all in for Parsons.

Someone with more LB knowledge than me would have to figure that out.

I actually thought our LB's looked much better covering TE's and also RB's trying to get around end.

If he could solidify that group it would be worth the pick.

So you think a LB is a tougher position in top 10 picks to hit a home run over WR?  how about we look over last 6 or so drafts.


LB- 
 2020  Simmons  very good voted All Rookie team
2019   White Buc-  good player      Allens Jacs-  Voted an Pro Bowl..  very good player
2018    R. Smith-  Bears-  good player   Bush Steelers-  Solid rookie year, starter 2020 ACL out for year
2016   Floyd  Bears-  solid, recorded 10.5 sacks in 2020
2015   Fowler-  torn ACL  early in  career, never the same

WR
2017  Davis- Titans-  Fair   Williams Chargers-  decent to good      Ross- bust
2015   Cooper  Cowboys-  very Good       White- Bears  bust
2014   Watkins- Bills   decent    Evans  TB  very good

So recent history is  draft  LB over WR  in top 10 of draft when you look at production.   2 clear  busts with Ross and White..   No bust at LB ..question mark on Fowler since he never seem to recover from ACL...
Don't you find it interesting that in last 3 drafts No WR taken in top 10 but 4 Lbs were.

(01-08-2021, 08:07 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: So you think a LB is a tougher position in top 10 picks to hit a home run over WR?  how about we look over last 6 or so drafts.


LB- 
 2020  Simmons  very good voted All Rookie team
2019   White Buc-  good player      Allens Jacs-  Voted an Pro Bowl..  very good player
2018    R. Smith-  Bears-  good player   Bush Steelers-  Solid rookie year, starter 2020 ACL out for year
2016   Floyd  Bears-  solid, recorded 10.5 sacks in 2020
2015   Fowler-  torn ACL  early in  career, never the same

WR
2017  Davis- Titans-  Fair   Williams Chargers-  decent to good      Ross- bust
2015   Cooper  Cowboys-  very Good       White- Bears  bust
2014   Watkins- Bills   decent    Evans  TB  very good

So recent history is  draft  LB over WR  in top 10 of draft when you look at production.   2 clear  busts with Ross and White..   No bust at LB ..question mark on Fowler since he never seem to recover from ACL...  
Don't you find it interesting that in last 3 drafts No WR taken in top 10 but 4 Lbs were.

Dude....what?

You're including edges like Allen in with stack LB's.


You have Simmons rated very good, but he's not even a starter for the Cardinals.  Meanwhile, you have WR's like Mike Evans rated the same very good.  A little objectivity in these player grades would be nice.  I mean, you have Corey Davis graded as Fair, but Devin White is Good despite the fact Davis graded a lot better as a Rookie.

Wr are not all the same either.. tell me the busts in those LB picks compared to Ross and White. Simmons was selected as a rookie LB this year. Davis is fair overall in his performance. The point that LBs are more hit and miss recent in top picks over WRs is just not true when you look.at their comparisons.

(01-08-2021, 10:49 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Wr are not all the same either.. tell me the busts in those LB picks compared to Ross and White. Simmons was selected as a rookie LB this year. Davis is fair overall in his performance.  The point that LBs are more hit and miss recent in top picks over WRs is just not true when you look.at their comparisons.

John Ross graded at 49 in year 2.  Devin White graded 43.  Yet, Devin White is good and Ross is a bust.  In your comparison, if a LB has a pulse, he's good.  If a WR isn't a 1,000 yard receiver, he sucks.

(01-08-2021, 11:11 PM)Whatever Wrote: John Ross graded at 49 in year 2.  Devin White graded 43.  Yet, Devin White is good and Ross is a bust.  In your comparison, if a LB has a pulse, he's good.  If a WR isn't a 1,000 yard receiver, he sucks.

These comparisons are null.

1.) Not all wr can be compared to each other, not all lb can be compared to each other.

2.) Parsons is a Mike/Edge whereas White/Bush/Roquan are true OLB and Simmons is unique. I don’t see any comparisons in that list.

The upside is if we draft Parsons we can let Carl Lawson go in FA and use Parsons on the edge in some nickel situations.

(01-09-2021, 12:25 AM)willieFANderson Wrote: These comparisons are null.

1.) Not all wr can be compared to each other, not all lb can be compared to each other.

2.) Parsons is a Mike/Edge whereas White/Bush/Roquan are true OLB and Simmons is unique. I don’t see any comparisons in that list.

The upside is if we draft Parsons we can let Carl Lawson go in FA and use Parsons on the edge in some nickel situations.

Carl Lawson needs to be re-signed. He is the only viable pass rusher on this entire team.