This sounds like an exciting first candidate to interview. What I don't want is for us to pull the trigger quickly without evaluating other O-line coaches. I know Lapham had some suggestions.

I personally would love to see big Willie and his Shovel coach our O-line.

In any case, we need to get this hire right. It's so important that we protect Burrow and give Mixon some decent holes to run through.

I don't know much about Oline coaches so I really do have to trust the process. I was all for Callahans assistant until I realized he only had 1 year of experience.

I prefer coaches from winning programs tho.

(01-07-2021, 03:54 PM)jj22 Wrote: I prefer coaches from winning programs tho.

those coaches arent generally looking for lateral moves...

(01-07-2021, 03:54 PM)jj22 Wrote: I don't know much about Oline coaches so I really do have to trust the process. I was all for Callahans assistant until I realized he only had 1 year of experience.

I prefer coaches from winning programs tho.

Generally those guys move up, not sideways. If you're a bienemy, you move up to hc, not oc at another stop. For a line coach, we'd have to look for winning assistant line coach,which probably doesn't have a lot of experience.

To the op: sounds ok on paper but I don't know much about the guy. I was really hoping for somebody with more experience, even if was just at the college level.

Not a bad first interview, let's see who else comes in.

Jay Morrison's list of leading Bengals OL coach candidates:

Hank Fraley (as mentioned in the OP)
Frank Pollack (former Jets, Bengals and Cowboys OL coach)
Chip Morgan (former Falcons OL coach, Tom Cable disciple)
Phil Rauscher (Vikings Asst OL coach, 35 years old)
Greg Austin (Nebraska OL coach, former teammate of Zac's)
George Warhop (former Jags, veteran OL coach, UC grad)
Mike Sherman (former GB head coach, Zac's father-in-law)

I like it honestly. An up and up coach, used to play Center who has to be the smartest player on the OL.

Should be an upgrade, we give him some more talented and proven players and we could really improve and protect
Burrow and open up the running game. Not a big name but I would be down with Fraley.

not what we need.

But we are not getting what we need- an established coach with the credibility to draw excellent coordinators and assistants.

I will happily eat crow if next year is better than this year in any substantial respect ( which I think means at a minimum a winning record)

It's not going to happen.

Much more likely that team is just terrible once again through game 5 or 7 and Taylor gets fired and replaced by Simmons.

Episode 35 of groundhog day.

(01-07-2021, 02:48 PM)ochocincos Wrote: As a whole, more balanced than what the Bengals put out with Turner.

PFF individual player ratings are a joke.

Last year Bengals were 25th in sack percentage (7.6%) while Lions were 22nd (6.7%)

In the rushing game Bengals and Lions tied for 24th in the league with 4.1 yards per carry.


Why am I not excited abut Fraley?

(01-07-2021, 05:18 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Jay Morrison's list of leading Bengals OL coach candidates:

Hank Fraley (as mentioned in the OP)
Frank Pollack (former Jets, Bengals and Cowboys OL coach)
Chip Morgan (former Falcons OL coach, Tom Cable disciple)
Phil Rauscher (Vikings Asst OL coach, 35 years old)
Greg Austin (Nebraska OL coach, former teammate of Zac's)
George Warhop (former Jags, veteran OL coach, UC grad)
Mike Sherman (former GB head coach, Zac's father-in-law)

Of the list, I like Morgan and sherman the most, pollack and fraley the least. Which means it's between pollack and fraley.

(01-07-2021, 05:35 PM)bengals67 Wrote: not what we need.

How? He's an actual NFL coach

I don't see Pollack coming back here unless he had no option
Zac has said he doesn't like mixing family and work so that would rule out Sherman even if he was willing
I'd take Fraley over Austin. He has a more extensive playing and coaching career

(01-07-2021, 05:18 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Jay Morrison's list of leading Bengals OL coach candidates:

Hank Fraley (as mentioned in the OP)
Frank Pollack (former Jets, Bengals and Cowboys OL coach)
Chip Morgan (former Falcons OL coach, Tom Cable disciple)
Phil Rauscher (Vikings Asst OL coach, 35 years old)
Greg Austin (Nebraska OL coach, former teammate of Zac's)
George Warhop (former Jags, veteran OL coach, UC grad)
Mike Sherman (former GB head coach, Zac's father-in-law)

I'd agree with Benton's take and favor Morgan or Sherman, with Morgan being the intriguing candidate for me.  However, as we have all become accustomed to, the Bengals will likely go with the low hanging fruit.

(01-07-2021, 05:18 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Jay Morrison's list of leading Bengals OL coach candidates:

Hank Fraley (as mentioned in the OP)
Frank Pollack (former Jets, Bengals and Cowboys OL coach)
Chip Morgan (former Falcons OL coach, Tom Cable disciple)
Phil Rauscher (Vikings Asst OL coach, 35 years old)
Greg Austin (Nebraska OL coach, former teammate of Zac's)
George Warhop (former Jags, veteran OL coach, UC grad)
Mike Sherman (former GB head coach, Zac's father-in-law)

Thanks for this list. Gives me a lot to think about. If Morrison is just dot-connecting he's doing it well, but it's still just dot-connecting. 

I see Rauscher has a connection to Bill Callahan back in Washington, which means he has a de facto connection to ZT. And I think Minnesota's OL over-performed this year, so that's an intriguing possibility. 

Sherman seems a little silly, probably just Morrison's dot-connecting. And I have a hard time seeing Pollack coming here after his exodus from here two years ago. He'll have lots of options. 

I'm not sure how to take "interviewing" position coaches. You applaud due diligence, but have we ever seen position coaches get interviewed?

I feel like that isn't something that happens. Maybe because Zac is a young coach and doesn't have league connects. Is this normal with other teams? Not that it is bad or I disagree with the process.

As mentioned before Zac doesnt have the connections of an experienced HC. That means his best chance of success with coaches is getting lucky with one on the way up. Hank could fit that model.
It would suit Hank as following Turner is a pretty easy job.

(01-07-2021, 05:18 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Jay Morrison's list of leading Bengals OL coach candidates:

Hank Fraley (as mentioned in the OP)
Frank Pollack (former Jets, Bengals and Cowboys OL coach)
Chip Morgan (former Falcons OL coach, Tom Cable disciple)
Phil Rauscher (Vikings Asst OL coach, 35 years old)
Greg Austin (Nebraska OL coach, former teammate of Zac's)
George Warhop (former Jags, veteran OL coach, UC grad)
Mike Sherman (former GB head coach, Zac's father-in-law)

This one seems like the most Zac Taylor type hire.

(01-07-2021, 05:42 PM)fredtoast Wrote: PFF individual player ratings are a joke.

Last year Bengals were 25th in sack percentage (7.6%) while Lions were 22nd (6.7%)

In the rushing game Bengals and Lions tied for 24th in the league with 4.1 yards per carry.


Why am I not excited abut Fraley?

You and I have always disagreed about PFF ratings. You aren't changing your mind, I'm not changing mine. No reason to keep bringing it up.

As for the stats you posted, I can why see you aren't super excited. I wouldn't be either, but it's still an improvement over Turner.
I'd prefer someone better, but the Bengals missed their shot last year when they could have gotten Callahan.

(01-07-2021, 06:57 PM)jj22 Wrote: I'm not sure how to take "interviewing" position coaches. You applaud due diligence, but have we ever seen position coaches get interviewed?

I feel like that isn't something that happens. Maybe because Zac is a young coach and doesn't have league connects. Is this normal with other teams? Not that it is bad or I disagree with the process.

they all get interviewed...we just don't usually hear about it unless its a coordinator 

I want to hire him just so I can call him Ace