Frank Pollack has mentioned he wants to bring the Wide Zone back to the Bengals. This scheme is popular in Cleveland, Minnesota, San Francisco, LA, and Tennessee. Pollack started to implement this in 2018 but the Bengals really sold into the Wide Zone under Zac, Callahan, and Turner at the beginning of 2019 before switching to a more power pin & pull/inside zone in the second half of the year.

The big difference is the first step. With a Wide zone you will see the first step lateral playside before engaging the defender trying to turn him away from the play if that isnt possible to engage and trying to force him to the play side sideline.

Guys like Joe Thomas mention this is the easiest scheme for young players because there is more room for error. 

(01-12-2021, 10:32 AM)Synric Wrote: Frank Pollack has mentioned he wants to bring the Wide Zone back to the Bengals. This scheme is popular in Cleveland, Minnesota, San Francisco, LA, and Tennessee. Pollack started to implement this in 2018 but the Bengals really sold into the Wide Zone under Zac, Callahan, and Turner at the beginning of 2019 before switching to a more power pin & pull/inside zone in the second half of the year.

The big difference is the first step. With a Wide zone you will see the first step lateral playside before engaging the defender trying to turn him away from the play if that isnt possible to engage and trying to force him to the play side sideline.

Guys like Joe Thomas mention this is the easiest scheme for young players because there is more room for error. 

I'm guessing we will see more of the bootleg passing game then which will be interesting with a QB coming off a knee injury. 

(01-12-2021, 10:32 AM)Synric Wrote: Frank Pollack has mentioned he wants to bring the Wide Zone back to the Bengals. This scheme is popular in Cleveland, Minnesota, San Francisco, LA, and Tennessee. Pollack started to implement this in 2018 but the Bengals really sold into the Wide Zone under Zac, Callahan, and Turner at the beginning of 2019 before switching to a more power pin & pull/inside zone in the second half of the year.

The big difference is the first step. With a Wide zone you will see the first step lateral playside before engaging the defender trying to turn him away from the play if that isnt possible to engage and trying to force him to the play side sideline.

Guys like Joe Thomas mention this is the easiest scheme for young players because there is more room for error. 

Pollack said it is more forgiving as well.

(01-12-2021, 10:32 AM)Synric Wrote: Frank Pollack has mentioned he wants to bring the Wide Zone back to the Bengals. This scheme is popular in Cleveland, Minnesota, San Francisco, LA, and Tennessee. Pollack started to implement this in 2018 but the Bengals really sold into the Wide Zone under Zac, Callahan, and Turner at the beginning of 2019 before switching to a more power pin & pull/inside zone in the second half of the year.

The big difference is the first step. With a Wide zone you will see the first step lateral playside before engaging the defender trying to turn him away from the play if that isnt possible to engage and trying to force him to the play side sideline.

Guys like Joe Thomas mention this is the easiest scheme for young players because there is more room for error. 

Popular for the 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 10th, and 15th highest ranked rushing teams for yards/game?  Sounds good to me.

(01-12-2021, 10:32 AM)Synric Wrote: Frank Pollack has mentioned he wants to bring the Wide Zone back to the Bengals. This scheme is popular in Cleveland, Minnesota, San Francisco, LA, and Tennessee. Pollack started to implement this in 2018 but the Bengals really sold into the Wide Zone under Zac, Callahan, and Turner at the beginning of 2019 before switching to a more power pin & pull/inside zone in the second half of the year.

The big difference is the first step. With a Wide zone you will see the first step lateral playside before engaging the defender trying to turn him away from the play if that isnt possible to engage and trying to force him to the play side sideline.

Guys like Joe Thomas mention this is the easiest scheme for young players because there is more room for error. 

so this is what we tried in 2019?  are we gonna overhaul the line we dont seem to have the right guys for this scheme

(01-12-2021, 11:33 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: so this is what we tried in 2019?  are we gonna overhaul the line we dont seem to have the right guys for this scheme

We can only hope

(01-12-2021, 11:33 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: so this is what we tried in 2019?  are we gonna overhaul the line we dont seem to have the right guys for this scheme

This.

We don't have the personnel which we learned the first half of Zac's first year. Look for Mixon et al to be blown up in the backfield of the snap again.

(01-12-2021, 11:33 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: so this is what we tried in 2019?  are we gonna overhaul the line we dont seem to have the right guys for this scheme

It will be interesting to see what Pollock makes of the guys on the team but I think its a certainty that we see big changes as Pollock has already said he wants some changes.
Obviously it depends on what we do in FA and the draft but out of the current players I only see Jonah & Hopkins as being safe along with Adeniji due to being a rookie
Redmond & Spain are both FA's, We can cut Sutherland & Johnson for $0 dead cap, Hart for $1m & Su'a-Filo for $700k.
It will be very interesting to see how much input Pollock gets as I remember Marvin saying during the draft recap presser that Pollock wasn't happy that Marv and Duke didn't get a couple of more O-line men in during that draft 

(01-12-2021, 11:33 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: so this is what we tried in 2019?  are we gonna overhaul the line we dont seem to have the right guys for this scheme

Yeah, I'm confused by this.  The first half of last year didn't look as good as the second half when they switched the scheme.  So they're going to go back to what wasn't working for them previously and hope it's better on round 2?  

(01-12-2021, 12:26 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: Yeah, I'm confused by this.  The first half of last year didn't look as good as the second half when they switched the scheme.  So they're going to go back to what wasn't working for them previously and hope it's better on round 2?  

The difference this time will be the person teaching the Scheme and the new players on the line learning it

(01-12-2021, 12:18 PM)JWW1971 Wrote: It will be interesting to see what Pollock makes of the guys on the team but I think its a certainty that we see big changes as Pollock has already said he wants some changes.
Obviously it depends on what we do in FA and the draft but out of the current players I only see Jonah & Hopkins as being safe along with Adeniji due to being a rookie
Redmond & Spain are both FA's, We can cut Sutherland & Johnson for $0 dead cap, Hart for $1m & Su'a-Filo for $700k.
It will be very interesting to see how much input Pollock gets as I remember Marvin saying during the draft recap presser that Pollock wasn't happy that Marv and Duke didn't get a couple of more O-line men in during that draft 

if we wouldnt spend for him a few years ago... how much we gonna spend to get him OL this time...

(01-12-2021, 01:05 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: if we wouldnt spend for him a few years ago... how much we gonna spend to get him OL this time...

I don't know but he said he was very happy with what he was told in the meeting with Zac, Do you think he would have came back if he wasn't given assurances?

(01-12-2021, 01:11 PM)JWW1971 Wrote: I don't know but he said he was very happy with what he was told in the meeting with Zac, Do you think he would have came back if he wasn't given assurances?

That same question could be asked of any coaches over the years knowing this FO doesn't like to pursue heavily in FA.  Sometimes people want a job or opportunity and are hoping for the best.  I think a lot of coaches also think they have the ability to turn anyone around, and their confidence gets them into spots where they may or may not actually be able to win.

(01-12-2021, 01:14 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: That same question could be asked of any coaches over the years knowing this FO doesn't like to pursue heavily in FA.  Sometimes people want a job or opportunity and are hoping for the best.  I think a lot of coaches also think they have the ability to turn anyone around, and their confidence gets them into spots where they may or may not actually be able to win.

That is a fair point but do you think that a coach would come back to a team if he wasn't happy with what he heard in the meeting.
Also we did spend a hell of a lot in FA last year and with drafting Burrow I expect that to continue this year. As I mentioned in another post, we went heavy in Defence last season and I think we will see the organization doing the same on the Offence this season.
Just my opinion but they will want to keep Burrow happy

(01-12-2021, 01:49 PM)JWW1971 Wrote: That is a fair point but do you think that a coach would come back to a team if he wasn't happy with what he heard in the meeting.
Also we did spend a hell of a lot in FA last year and with drafting Burrow I expect that to continue this year. As I mentioned in another post, we went heavy in Defence last season and I think we will see the organization doing the same on the Offence this season.
Just my opinion but they will want to keep Burrow happy

I sure hope so!  I would have thought that last year knowing they were going to sign Burrow, they would have wanted to make sure the stage was set for him.  But they didn't.  So I'm skeptical about what happens this offseason.  Certainly hoping they go all out to protect Burrow, but just hard to see it until they do it. 

I know, I don’t care for Hart either but if Pollack thinks he can elevate him to be at least competent so be it.

On the Hart thing, one interesting point was that even when they lost Jonah they still on the majority of plays had the TE helping Hart - in other words lined up inline on the right side not the left. If they can get Hart to the point where he does not constantly need TE or RB help that opens up the playbook more.

(01-12-2021, 10:58 AM)Au165 Wrote: I'm guessing we will see more of the bootleg passing game then which will be interesting with a QB coming off a knee injury. 

Boots playaction widezone RPOs. If the Bengals can get the run offense to take off it really opens up the playbook which we didnt see in 2020.

(01-12-2021, 11:33 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: so this is what we tried in 2019?  are we gonna overhaul the line we dont seem to have the right guys for this scheme

The run game was actually really good and here was the OL that year:
- Glenn
- Boling
- Price
- Redmond
- Hart

It's not like it was a stellar OL. Pollack found a way to make the OL effective with Price, Redmond, and Hart. I don't think a full overhaul is needed. Just better coaching.

(01-12-2021, 12:26 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: Yeah, I'm confused by this.  The first half of last year didn't look as good as the second half when they switched the scheme.  So they're going to go back to what wasn't working for them previously and hope it's better on round 2?  

They brought in Frank Pollack that did a good job mixing up the inside and outside zone for the Bengals in 2018. Remember that the offensive line took big hits in 2019 and wasn't just the scheme but lack of talent. 

It seems like a lot of things about scheme are the people teaching it and how hard the players want to play for that person. Pollack should do better than Turner did despite the scheme. I trust his talent eval better also. I dont think we will see Pollack sticking with guys like MJ for so long or playing guys like Fred Johnson out of position for so long. Turner's OL was like musical chairs and I just dont think he made good decisions until it was too late. Once Burrow went down, the OL improved because he finally benched MJ. That move may have come from ZT or someone higher up in the org. Turner proved himself to be a bad coach and even worse evaluator.