(01-17-2021, 01:18 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: He is not as versatile, Chase strength is more as a set WR, Smith adds a  more of a dimension we are missing, can line up in back field for example, much better in motion. 

You already said that. 

There's no such thing as a "set" wide receiver. Smith doesn't "add more of a dimension" because any WR (including Chase) can line up in the backfield, go in motion (wtf does "much better in motion" mean?), take an end around, etc. 

Like i pointed out, Smith isn't smaller, shiftier and faster--things that would make him a matchup problem and possibly make him more valuable to a team with bigger, possession type receivers, who would be looking for a smaller receiver with speed. 

(01-16-2021, 08:41 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Brown is listed at 185, and he has 3" less to spread 10lb more over.

6'1, 175 is just real real thin for an NFL player. He's just catching the flu away from looking like a skeleton.



I don't know how much faith I have in him once 4.3-4.4 CBs who outweigh him by 20lbs start jamming him hard at the LoS to prevent him from getting a clean release. College CBs couldn't do it because they didn't have the speed to keep up, but everyone in the NFL is faster.

William Jackson is 6'0, 196lbs and ran a 4.37 and he's by no means unique in the NFL. Even if Smith doesn't break, he's still going to get manhandled.

Honestly, Smith being 6'1" 175 is about a similar body composition to AJ Green who was listed as 6'4" 189 on his college roster.

(01-17-2021, 02:02 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm kinda with you on this. The problem is WR is where the top tier prospects are in this draft. Although some here are trying to discredit DS, he's an elite prospect and so it Chase. He;; when Waddle runs in the 4.2s he'll be in the same category. I'd like the following over WR #3:

Parsons
Paye
Surtain II
Darrisaw
Sewell

I hope we don't go WR#3 at 5OA, but if we do, we'll get a great prospect regardless on ankle size. 

Why can't someone not like a prospect because they think he's too thin to hold up to the punishment of the NFL, while never dismissing his obvious physical skills, without it being said that they're "trying to discredit" him?

If someone doesn't remember the skill shown by a WR the previous year, then watches the current year's NCG and begins to talk about how the current guy is so much better than the former guy who, all of the sudden, isn't as physical, fast and effective as he was last year, to the point that he's now a "set" WR, as if the only thing he can do is line up on the LOS and run straight routes, but the other guy can do all kinds of things to make him "a better fit", should i just sit here and not dispute the obvious inaccuracies?

Anyone can pull up youtube and watch the two of them to see that they run the same type of routes and get the same type of production with a good QB throwing them the ball. 

Smith isn't the next Tyreke Hill and it looks an awful lot like someone is trying to imply that he is. 

When Smith is drafted by the Bengals or any team, and he's able to be a top 10, durable WR--then good for him and his family. It will be and should be considered a good thing. That doesn't discredit the feeling that he's starting from a position that a lot of guys don't end up being able to be successful from. 

(01-17-2021, 01:03 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Honestly, Smith being 6'1" 175 is about a similar body composition to AJ Green who was listed as 6'4" 189 on his college roster.

AJs combine results were 6'4" and 211lbs. Now, it's a well known fact that guys will drink a bunch of water before weigh-in so they look heavier than they actually are. Since a gallon of water weighs about 8lbs, even if AJ was able to down that, he was still walking around at 200+ normally. 

Being listed at 189 on a college roster is one of two things, logically. Either it was his weight coming in as a freshman, or someone got two of those numbers transposed. 

(01-17-2021, 01:21 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: AJs combine results were 6'4" and 211lbs. Now, it's a well known fact that guys will drink a bunch of water before weigh-in so they look heavier than they actually are. Since a gallon of water weighs about 8lbs, even if AJ was able to down that, he was still walking around at 200+ normally. 

Being listed at 189 on a college roster is one of two things, logically. Either it was his weight coming in as a freshman, or someone got two of those numbers transposed. 

The key is can a guy like Smith gain 10 to 15 lbs. on their frame while maintaining speed and agility. I would lay money he can. This guy is no WR2 or WR3 for any team, he is a WR1 which we need since our WR1 is not signed and looks nothing like WR1 anymore. I say that, but the great Fitzgerald has been a productive #2 and now #3  for many years now.

o, I would not be surprised to see AJ get 6 to 8 million a year somewhere to be a #2.

(01-17-2021, 01:07 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Why can't someone not like a prospect because they think he's too thin to hold up to the punishment of the NFL, while never dismissing his obvious physical skills, without it being said that they're "trying to discredit" him?

If someone doesn't remember the skill shown by a WR the previous year, then watches the current year's NCG and begins to talk about how the current guy is so much better than the former guy who, all of the sudden, isn't as physical, fast and effective as he was last year, to the point that he's now a "set" WR, as if the only thing he can do is line up on the LOS and run straight routes, but the other guy can do all kinds of things to make him "a better fit", should i just sit here and not dispute the obvious inaccuracies?

Anyone can pull up youtube and watch the two of them to see that they run the same type of routes and get the same type of production with a good QB throwing them the ball. 

Smith isn't the next Tyreke Hill and it looks an awful lot like someone is trying to imply that he is. 

When Smith is drafted by the Bengals or any team, and he's able to be a top 10, durable WR--then good for him and his family. It will be and should be considered a good thing. That doesn't discredit the feeling that he's starting from a position that a lot of guys don't end up being able to be successful from. 

I guess it's because I don't know of any NFL WR that got hurt because they were too thin. 

(01-17-2021, 01:07 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Why can't someone not like a prospect because they think he's too thin to hold up to the punishment of the NFL, while never dismissing his obvious physical skills, without it being said that they're "trying to discredit" him?

If someone doesn't remember the skill shown by a WR the previous year, then watches the current year's NCG and begins to talk about how the current guy is so much better than the former guy who, all of the sudden, isn't as physical, fast and effective as he was last year, to the point that he's now a "set" WR, as if the only thing he can do is line up on the LOS and run straight routes, but the other guy can do all kinds of things to make him "a better fit", should i just sit here and not dispute the obvious inaccuracies?

Anyone can pull up youtube and watch the two of them to see that they run the same type of routes and get the same type of production with a good QB throwing them the ball. 

Smith isn't the next Tyreke Hill and it looks an awful lot like someone is trying to imply that he is. 

When Smith is drafted by the Bengals or any team, and he's able to be a top 10, durable WR--then good for him and his family. It will be and should be considered a good thing. That doesn't discredit the feeling that he's starting from a position that a lot of guys don't end up being able to be successful from. 

Every year, teams dismiss or grade down players for a various reasons, size, lack of separation, competition, experience, injuries, personal matters and this year could also be opt-out.  A team may question Chase "one great year" and wonder was it because of Burrow and the great WR group that put him mostly in single coverage, that could happen also.  I understand a team being worried about the size of Smith just like Chase some teams will grade them down and others will not but with that said both will more likely go in top ten for sure which tells you neither of those concerns were mitigated by the talent level to go top 10.

(01-17-2021, 03:31 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The key is can a guy like Smith gain 10 to 15 lbs. on their frame while maintaining speed and agility. I would lay money he can. This guy is no WR2 or WR3 for any team, he is a WR1 which we need since our WR1 is not signed and looks nothing like WR1 anymore. I say that, but the great Fitzgerald has been a productive #2 and now #3  for many years now.

o, I would not be surprised to see AJ get 6 to 8 million a year somewhere to be a #2.

He's obv a #1WR, it's just a matter if he can take the hits of a 17 game season. I can't think of too many examples (none really) of a slim WR putting on that much weight. 

(01-17-2021, 04:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I guess it's because I don't know of any NFL WR that got hurt because they were too thin. 

People that have done the studies do. And they point out, for WRs, the lighter ones get injured more. 

John Ross weighed in at 188 at the combine and has a slight build. I wonder if he's had any injuries in the NFL?

(01-17-2021, 04:45 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Every year, teams dismiss or grade down players for a various reasons, size, lack of separation, competition, experience, injuries, personal matters and this year could also be opt-out.  A team may question Chase "one great year" and wonder was it because of Burrow and the great WR group that put him mostly in single coverage, that could happen also.  I understand a team being worried about the size of Smith just like Chase some teams will grade them down and others will not but with that said both will more likely go in top ten for sure which tells you neither of those concerns were mitigated  by the talent level to go top 10.

Nothing wrong with that...but...it has nothing to do with what you've been saying about Smith being a better fit, for the reasons you stated. 

Both had outstanding seasons, with QBs that produced at high levels. Both will be drafted high. 

Teams may not give a hoot about his size and consider drafting him above Chase. I just hope the Bengals aren't one of those teams. 

(01-17-2021, 05:31 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: People that have done the studies do. And they point out, for WRs, the lighter ones get injured more. 

John Ross weighed in at 188 at the combine and has a slight build. I wonder if he's had any injuries in the NFL?

About as often as Auden Tate. 

(01-17-2021, 01:47 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I like slim as much as anyone, but he's not lining up in the backfield anytime soon. 

Well I dont me as a RB in I bot slot back motion  back etc.. he gives us something that we can use him in different formations

(01-17-2021, 05:46 PM)bfine32 Wrote: About as often as Auden Tate. 

Ross has only had 2 injuries in his pro career?

Interesting. I though he's had at least 4.

(01-17-2021, 06:16 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well I dont me as a RB in I bot slot back motion  back etc.. he gives us something that we can use him in different formations

Just like a number of WRs in this years draft. 

(01-17-2021, 06:16 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Ross has only had 2 injuries in his pro career?

Interesting. I though he's had at least 4.

Tate has had a lot more than 2.  Injured in TC as a rookie and missed time going into the regular season.  Injured in TC last year and put on season ending IR with a different injury later in the year.  Put on season ending IR this year.  Plus, that's not counting stuff like his concussion last year against the Raiders.  

(01-17-2021, 06:16 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Ross has only had 2 injuries in his pro career?

Interesting. I though he's had at least 4.

Could be why I said "as often" instead of "as many' 

Interesting indeed

(01-17-2021, 06:18 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Just like a number of WRs in this years draft. 

At different level that why he is at top of list with Chase who also has others with his skill set the difference they are better at it..

DeVonta Smith is a great player but the size is a major concern. It’s hard for some scouts to envision drafting a 170 pound WR at the top of the board... We haven’t seen a lot of “skinny” WRs dominate the pro game. It is what it is.. #NFL #NFLDraft https://t.co/a8CCXR8v5u

— Bucky Brooks (@BuckyBrooks) January 26, 2021

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(01-27-2021, 12:48 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote:

DeVonta Smith is a great player but the size is a major concern. It’s hard for some scouts to envision drafting a 170 pound WR at the top of the board... We haven’t seen a lot of “skinny” WRs dominate the pro game. It is what it is.. #NFL #NFLDraft https://t.co/a8CCXR8v5u

— Bucky Brooks (@BuckyBrooks) January 26, 2021

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i believe he is not playing.. will weigh in in couple weeks at pro day... Im also interested in seeing Chase 40 time.. gut feeling will be 4.5 above..